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Player morality in EVE online. Why did you leave it at the door?

First post
Author
Huehuehue
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1 - 2011-10-30 18:33:45 UTC
I know this is going to be a controversial topic (mostly everyone vs. me I think...) but please read trough. This is not a troll attempt of kind, but this is an attempt to generate discussion on this topic.

It seems to me that most of EVE player community seems to think , even if they don't do this themselves, that it's okay to shoot down a lone miner or missioner in low sec, steal ore, threaten someone for money etc. "It's part of the game, deal with it" is what I hear most of the time. The question I want to ask you is this: Why do you leave your morality at login screen? Don't get me wrong, pvp and such is obviously okay when both parties do it for fun and enjoyment, which is the case with most pvp in EVE. Sure, no one likes to lose but that's part of the fun too. But when you kill a lone miner who's not even in a player corp that's just evil. You don't see people saying "well he shouldn't whine it's part of the life" if a guy wanders in bad part of the town and gets beat up do you? How would like it if I came up to you and beat you up, afterwards saying "hey don't get mad, god (aka the lead dev of life ;) ) made this possible so it's cool!". You don't see theist go around saying **** like that do you?

It's so easy to be an ******* to people when you both are anonymous and it's never going to get back you. What marks a real good and moral person is his ability sympathize with others regardless of the fact who and where the other person is. "It's part of the game" is just really really bad excuse for behaving like an ******* and makes me wonder if these people are just as bad irl, or do express their inner ******* online because they don't have the balls to do it irl? I know I'd much rather just say hi to that lonely miner than blow him to pieces just because.

Myfanwy Heimdal
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
#2 - 2011-10-30 18:36:31 UTC
Feel free to say Hello to that lonley miner - that is often what I do. No-one is making you zap him; I've made many an acquaintance by stumbling across someone and saying Hello.

Mind you, it doesn't half scare them most of the time. That is, if their first language isn't Bot.

Pam:  I wonder what my name means in Welsh?Nessa: Why?

Roosterton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2011-10-30 18:38:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Roosterton
Quote:
It seems to me that most of EVE player community seems to think , even if they don't do this themselves, that it's okay to shoot down a lone miner or missioner in low sec, steal ore, threaten someone for money etc. "It's part of the game, deal with it" is what I hear most of the time. The question I want to ask you is this: Why do you leave your morality at login screen? Don't get me wrong, pvp and such is obviously okay when both parties do it for fun and enjoyment, which is the case with most pvp in EVE. Sure, no one likes to lose but that's part of the fun too. But when you kill a lone miner who's not even in a player corp that's just evil.


Many reasons;

Killmails
Shiny isk drops
Market manipulation (See: Goonswarm ice interdiction)
Getting revenge for something they did/said to you
Getting prizes (See: Hulkageddon)
Asset denial if they're aiding an enemy
Killing bots

etc
thekiller2002us
The J8sters
#4 - 2011-10-30 18:38:45 UTC
i still have some honor- i honor 1v1's and ransoms. I dont use neut rr or logoff tactics.
Everything else is fair game because- well if there was peace in eve it would be probably the most boring game and although some manufacturers dont agree- without war/ ganks there would be no ecomony

I'm with Brick on this one- make thouse carebearing b******s squeal..

Twisted Alice
Doomheim
#5 - 2011-10-30 18:40:28 UTC
Eve attracts the dregs of the MMO gaming world, why you might ask, because it's a griefers paradise.


So you really should not expect anything else, not in Eve anyway.
Peri Simone
Black Rebel Rifter Club
The Devil's Tattoo
#6 - 2011-10-30 18:42:51 UTC
Personally, I don't see shooting down a lone miner as being any less moral than bankrupting someone for landing on my Mayfair hotel. Or to put it another way, it's part of the game - deal with it.
Alara IonStorm
#7 - 2011-10-30 18:44:05 UTC
I feel like Role Playing the Villain in this MMORPG.

Video Games would be less interesting without villains.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#8 - 2011-10-30 18:46:24 UTC
There are no real consequences, so there is no real morality. Games are not real. Do not confuse player behaviour with real person behaviour.
Mortis vonShadow
Balanaz Mining and Development Inc.
#9 - 2011-10-30 18:50:43 UTC
I'll tell you why. Because everyone that plays EVE Online is looking to escape from their real life. Sometimes that means for some of us becoming something we are not in real life.

The average person that plays EVE Online in reality would never walk over to anyone sitting at a stop light and shoot them in the face and then laugh about it. Why? Cuz' the response to that would end their life as well. But in EVE, it is okay to become that gun weilding maniac and laugh at the victim. Hell its encouraged.

If you play a video game and expect a moral compass, you are going to be very very upset with EVE. It doesn't and won't exsist.



Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen.                   And some days, you're just a man with a gun.

Demon View
Doomheim
#10 - 2011-10-30 18:52:02 UTC
Huehuehue wrote:
But when you kill a lone miner who's not even in a player corp that's just evil.


Uh huh. That's out-of-game morality. The problem with out-of-game morality is that, out-of-game, there are all kinds of very obvious excuses, such as "people named Huehuehue are obvious trolls and deserve to die", or "the human running that account shouldn't earn AFK income", or "by making ventures like his risky, this system, this security status, his surroundings, meaningful instead of dull and indifferentiable. Amamake is a place where you do not attempt to mine, a system you remember the name of, rather than just a string of letters and a skybox between some other places like this."

I encourage you to develop an in-game morality. Then you can say, hm, that's a good Amarrian that's mining in this dangerous pirate system, I should convo him and suggest a safer place to do that, or maybe stick around to fight pirates that come. Or you can say, JACKPOT, I just found some slaver scum trying to rob us of some of our hard-won resources, and open fire.
Huehuehue
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#11 - 2011-10-30 18:52:12 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
There are no real consequences, so there is no real morality. Games are not real. Do not confuse player behaviour with real person behaviour.


But of course you cannot seperate the two. You do not suddenly turn into another person that has no affect on your real person when you log on. Like I said, I would never ever kill a miner or missioner UNLESS they are in enemy corporation I'm in war with and thus it's part of agreed combat. And how can you say there are no real consenquenses, each player devotes his time, which is the single most valuable asset any human has to this game, and you can bet the missioneer who lost his brand new cnr because you felt the kill mail would look nice does not feel good.

KaarBaak
Squirrel Team
#12 - 2011-10-30 18:54:24 UTC

Because it's just a game?

You...do...realize that, right? It's not real life.

Being a fictional, virtual world it allows me to do things I would not normally do.

Because it's just a game. My (John Smith's) morality doesn't enter into it. "KaarBaak" has her own morality, totally unrelated to "John Smith."

I (John smith) don't normally go flying between asteroid belts, worried for my life every time I travel between solar systems. "KaarBaak" does. So her experiences have created an entirely different morality than mine. "John Smith" can't relate to "KaarBaak's" world/life/morality. Likewise, "KaarBaak" cannot relate to "John Smith's"

If a person is having trouble distinguishing between the virtual world and the real world...that person should seek professional help.

Dum Spiro Spero

Kietay Ayari
Caldari State
#13 - 2011-10-30 18:54:50 UTC
I don't think everyone leaves morality at the door. But it isn't the same as RL. Part of the fun of EVE is that you can do things like this, comparing it to RL makes no sense. Would you go around asking people to fight you to the death in RL and then gloat about how you did it after?

I think I would even have a hard time being angry at a friend if they betrayed me in this game. That specifically is something I have thought about super a lot. I mean on one hand they are your friend and you suspect they will not betray you. But on the other hand they are just messing with you in a game so its not like they really betrayed you!

I think maybe it would be funny >_> But then again I haven't worked for 3 years building something in this game only to have it asploded! All I can say is so far the people I have met who do not take being killed personally in this game are a lot more fun to talk to!

At the very least its more interesting and makes good adventure stories for future pen pals ;D

Ferox #1

Huehuehue
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#14 - 2011-10-30 18:56:51 UTC
Mortis vonShadow wrote:
I'll tell you why. Because everyone that plays EVE Online is looking to escape from their real life. Sometimes that means for some of us becoming something we are not in real life.

The average person that plays EVE Online in reality would never walk over to anyone sitting at a stop light and shoot them in the face and then laugh about it. Why? Cuz' the response to that would end their life as well. But in EVE, it is okay to become that gun weilding maniac and laugh at the victim. Hell its encouraged.

If you play a video game and expect a moral compass, you are going to be very very upset with EVE. It doesn't and won't exsist.





I play EVE to "escape" from real life just as much as the next guy, but I know I bring my real life morality with me to the game, I mean how could you not? That's not something you just turn off.
Barbelo Valentinian
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#15 - 2011-10-30 18:58:14 UTC
Huehuehue wrote:
I know this is going to be a controversial topic (mostly everyone vs. me I think...) but please read trough. This is not a troll attempt of kind, but this is an attempt to generate discussion on this topic.

It seems to me that most of EVE player community seems to think , even if they don't do this themselves, that it's okay to shoot down a lone miner or missioner in low sec, steal ore, threaten someone for money etc. "It's part of the game, deal with it" is what I hear most of the time. The question I want to ask you is this: Why do you leave your morality at login screen? Don't get me wrong, pvp and such is obviously okay when both parties do it for fun and enjoyment, which is the case with most pvp in EVE. Sure, no one likes to lose but that's part of the fun too. But when you kill a lone miner who's not even in a player corp that's just evil. You don't see people saying "well he shouldn't whine it's part of the life" if a guy wanders in bad part of the town and gets beat up do you? How would like it if I came up to you and beat you up, afterwards saying "hey don't get mad, god (aka the lead dev of life ;) ) made this possible so it's cool!". You don't see theist go around saying **** like that do you?

It's so easy to be an ******* to people when you both are anonymous and it's never going to get back you. What marks a real good and moral person is his ability sympathize with others regardless of the fact who and where the other person is. "It's part of the game" is just really really bad excuse for behaving like an ******* and makes me wonder if these people are just as bad irl, or do express their inner ******* online because they don't have the balls to do it irl? I know I'd much rather just say hi to that lonely miner than blow him to pieces just because.



Yeah I don't leave my morality at the door, all my characters are moral. I even tried to make an alt a pirate once doing the dozen cheap rifters thing, but I just couldn't get into the idea of zapping people for no reason, or just for loot. That character ended up being "good" at the end too, and remorseful for her earlier crimes Lol

I do consider my inability to play evil characters to be a bit of a character flaw though. I should be able to, but I just can't, which denotes some kind of inflexibility in me, I think. Or maybe I just want to be loved.

It is a game, and the point is to be able to be what you wanna be in it, if you wanna be evil, you can. It's fun in a game precisely because you don't, and wouldn't, do that stuff in real life. You get to explore the dark side like you never could, or would, in real life.
Xoria Krint
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2011-10-30 18:59:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Xoria Krint
This game has rules. Traveling to low security space is the same thing as agreeing to Player vs Player combat (It's game mechanics). Morality has nothing to do with that. Often when players are getting killed in low-security space they are doing something wrong (like not using directional scanning, and watching local for new pilots). As a PvPer you can sometimes kill the same newbie a few times and after some while he learns and actually warps out before I get there. Who knows, one day he might be able to actually defend himself.

We are teachers.
David Grogan
NerdHerd
#17 - 2011-10-30 18:59:39 UTC  |  Edited by: David Grogan
Huehuehue wrote:
I know this is going to be a controversial topic (mostly everyone vs. me I think...) but please read trough. This is not a troll attempt of kind, but this is an attempt to generate discussion on this topic.

It seems to me that most of EVE player community seems to think , even if they don't do this themselves, that it's okay to shoot down a lone miner or missioner in low sec, steal ore, threaten someone for money etc. "It's part of the game, deal with it" is what I hear most of the time. The question I want to ask you is this: Why do you leave your morality at login screen? Don't get me wrong, pvp and such is obviously okay when both parties do it for fun and enjoyment, which is the case with most pvp in EVE. Sure, no one likes to lose but that's part of the fun too. But when you kill a lone miner who's not even in a player corp that's just evil. You don't see people saying "well he shouldn't whine it's part of the life" if a guy wanders in bad part of the town and gets beat up do you? How would like it if I came up to you and beat you up, afterwards saying "hey don't get mad, god (aka the lead dev of life ;) ) made this possible so it's cool!". You don't see theist go around saying **** like that do you?

It's so easy to be an ******* to people when you both are anonymous and it's never going to get back you. What marks a real good and moral person is his ability sympathize with others regardless of the fact who and where the other person is. "It's part of the game" is just really really bad excuse for behaving like an ******* and makes me wonder if these people are just as bad irl, or do express their inner ******* online because they don't have the balls to do it irl? I know I'd much rather just say hi to that lonely miner than blow him to pieces just because.



People are dicks....... that's why

if i could lie, cheat, & steal and get away with it in real life i'd do it but i can't cos of laws (well i could but if i'm caught i go to jail)......... in eve online there is no consequences for being dicks. So people are dicks.

Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.

Twisted Alice
Doomheim
#18 - 2011-10-30 19:00:10 UTC
Huehuehue wrote:
Abrazzar wrote:
There are no real consequences, so there is no real morality. Games are not real. Do not confuse player behaviour with real person behaviour.


But of course you cannot seperate the two. You do not suddenly turn into another person that has no affect on your real person when you log on. Like I said, I would never ever kill a miner or missioner UNLESS they are in enemy corporation I'm in war with and thus it's part of agreed combat. And how can you say there are no real consenquenses, each player devotes his time, which is the single most valuable asset any human has to this game, and you can bet the missioneer who lost his brand new cnr because you felt the kill mail would look nice does not feel good.





That's part of your own character, I doubt you can even play bad characters succesfully. Some people just can't because their moral compass kicks in and they question what they're doing.
John Caesse
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#19 - 2011-10-30 19:00:25 UTC
Huehuehue wrote:

I play EVE to "escape" from real life just as much as the next guy, but I know I bring my real life morality with me to the game, I mean how could you not? That's not something you just turn off.


Yes, it is something you just turn off.

I would never indiscriminately slaughter everyone I see in a given area in real life, but I do it all the time in Call of Duty - would you say that me killing people in an FPS makes me an immoral person?
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2011-10-30 19:02:38 UTC
So playing by the rules is all of a sudden considered immoral? Interesting.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.

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