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How to Achieve Financial Freedom?
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Andracin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2013-09-16 11:14:49 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
I've been playing of 3 months and I'm still pretty much broke. The market is too complex and there is always going to be someone who instantly undercuts you. Mission running goes so boring. Exploration takes too long and so often the rewards aren't worth it. And you can never make a profit from pvp when your new. mining and industry is slow and often not worth it.

In other words unless you want to spend hours grinding then plex really is the only way to make money. This gain panders relentlessly to the old player base and dooms new players to oblivion.


This post is so full of horse crap you can smell it from jita to rens.

1) the market is not complex. it is simple and with 10m isk you can start as a new player and make a profit. If you don't have the time to play the .01 ISK game, go to Amarr, Hek, Dodixie, Rens. Jita is a 2000 person system probably 1900 of them are station trading. Go to another hub where you can buy and manipulate. For example I went to hek with my alt and bought every single feint warp disruptor on the market and reposted them for 20% profit and held that margin un-challenged for almost a week at which point I sold out of them and moved to other items.

2) mission running is boring to me too, I'll give you that, but it does make isk that you can use to invest or otherwise be able to stop missioning if you don't like it. Some people like running missions so much its all they do. Don't tell other people to not do things because it is something YOU don't enjoy.

3) Exploration with the Odessy expansion became so simple its practically free isk. Data sites in low sec generate 5-10 mil ususally per site and you can do them in 10-20 minutes and all they take is a t1 exploration frigate. Relic sites don't generate as much, but isk is isk. Combat sites, especially the 5/10 or higher you can easilly make 500+ mil in about 45 minutes.

4)PVP is not supposed to be an isk faucet, its an isk sink. If you expect engaging in an activity that blows stuff up to make your money, you need to lay off the drugs.

5) mining and industry fall into the same catagory as mission running. yes, some find it boring but others find it to be there EVE life's calling. Just because YOU don't like it don't make it a bad way to earn isk for someone else. Hell even I spent my first week in a hoarder with a mining laser on it so I could fit "expensive" 150mm scout autocannons on my rifter.

6) nothing panders to the older players. This is one of the few MMO's where the exact opposite is true, where a new player right out of the gate with a couple hours training and some basic instruction can fly a griffin ewar frigate that can incapacitate a 10 year veteran in a faction battleship. Also a new player in a stab fit frigate can join faction warfare and do plexes, gain and use the loyalty points to trade for faction items which sell for good isk.

7)if this game dooms all new players to oblivion, Paul, why are you still here? I think from New Player Q&A to features and ideas you have posted how some area of this game is broken or useless. Have you ever considered that if every feature of the game sucks, it might not be the game, it might be you sucking at playing it. Quit posting false information to new players, it gives them a false sense of doom and gloom about their future when your time as a new player is one of the most exciting in your career.
Paul Otichoda
Perkone
Caldari State
#22 - 2013-09-16 11:15:51 UTC
embrel wrote:
Paul Otichoda wrote:


I'm already at level 4s solo so its not too bad. Its just that they take so long to do.


do you use a sentry ship?

since I bought a Dominix, L4's have become very comfortable.


no raven
Neesha Marinn
Doomheim
#23 - 2013-09-16 11:18:23 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
I've been playing of 3 months and I'm still pretty much broke. The market is too complex and there is always going to be someone who instantly undercuts you. Mission running goes so boring. Exploration takes too long and so often the rewards aren't worth it. And you can never make a profit from pvp when your new. mining and industry is slow and often not worth it.

In other words unless you want to spend hours grinding then plex really is the only way to make money. This gain panders relentlessly to the old player base and dooms new players to oblivion.

Jezus.
What, exactly is complex out the market? Because sometimes it involves a calculator?
Mission running gets boring you say?
Get a mate or two, grab several missions at once, talk nonsense on comms and destroy them 2-3 at a time while someone Noctis' himself out
Personally I still do them a lot solo and I'm entertained if I consider the 60-70m p/hour.

Exploration I don't know too much about so I'll leave that blank.

Pvp can easily net profits when you're new. Factionwarfare LP gains if spent properly can make easy money.
Mining and industry? See the mission comment.

The idea you have that PLEX is the only way to keep rolling is testament to your incompetence to commit to ISK making in an engaging way and not something you should leave as a post in a Q&A thread.

It's nonsense and thrashtalk.
Tee Kay Solus
Poseidon Industries And Trading
#24 - 2013-09-16 11:23:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Tee Kay Solus
@ OP

Check this forum thread for how to make decent money with minimum effort https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=277503&find=unread

Edit:
In regard to Paul`s posts. It seems to me that even though you appear to be in a decent corporation you still fly solo? Why is that? What is the point of joining a corporation if all you`re going to do is play alone? Paul remember that this is not a single player game and your chances of surviving a PvP encounter raise exponentially if you hang out with fellow players; same goes for having fun. It sounds to me like you`re jumping straight into various activities in game without doing a proper research on them first. Try joining EvE University where you can learn more and meet a bunch of friendly folks. Judging by your posts you`re not going to make many friends out here if you keep this bitter-like attitude as someone in the previous posts mentioned. If you need a breakdown on how market works feel free to contact me and i`ll happily explain a thing or two for you. If not, there`s a plethora of tutorials and max-efficiency plans for market ops out there.

"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet."

  • Maj. Gen. James Mattis
Daler Farmon
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#25 - 2013-09-16 11:26:05 UTC
@Sin Pew, agree with your latest post. However, OP says:

Harris Girvan wrote:
I am willing to actually put in the time and effort to make the ISK but I want to know the most time and work effective methods to achieve this. This toon has relatively low SP less than two million but it is generally well balanced in most areas.


He is willing to train and not rushing. So, OP put Incursion as your goal and go with that. All the rest things s*cks. Go with missions at the beginning until your skills is up for Incursion. If u r running out of isks, its fine for newbie. Dont be cheap, get some PLEX and sell them. Don't f*uck your game experience for some 20$
Neesha Marinn
Doomheim
#26 - 2013-09-16 11:29:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Neesha Marinn
Daler Farmon wrote:
@Sin Pew, agree with your latest post. However, OP says:

Harris Girvan wrote:
I am willing to actually put in the time and effort to make the ISK but I want to know the most time and work effective methods to achieve this. This toon has relatively low SP less than two million but it is generally well balanced in most areas.


He is willing to train and not rushing. So, OP put Incursion as your goal and go with that. All the rest things s*cks. Go with missions at the beginning until your skills is up for Incursion. If u r running out of isks, its fine for newbie. Dont be cheap, get some PLEX and sell them. Don't f*uck your game experience for some 20$

This is what you say.

Dont be cheap, but be lazy! Buy ISK with RL cash.
Forget to learn what independancy is and just empty your wallet on x PLEX each month to be able to 'have fun', while you can actually easily afford your newbee stuff with - THATS RIGHT - newbee activities.

You know what buying PLEX does?
Creates incompetency in the long run.
It also denies you from the satisfaction of being able to fund yourself INGAME and actually eventually earn your own PLEX and say screw it to buying PLEX with cash - you'll afford your monthly fees with ISK.

Get out of this thread please.
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2013-09-16 11:31:51 UTC
Andracin wrote:


4)PVP is not supposed to be an isk faucet, its an isk sink. If you expect engaging in an activity that blows stuff up to make your money, you need to lay off the drugs.



It can make you good isk. Very good isk.


"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Paul Otichoda
Perkone
Caldari State
#28 - 2013-09-16 11:33:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Paul Otichoda
Andracin wrote:
Paul Otichoda wrote:
I've been playing of 3 months and I'm still pretty much broke. The market is too complex and there is always going to be someone who instantly undercuts you. Mission running goes so boring. Exploration takes too long and so often the rewards aren't worth it. And you can never make a profit from pvp when your new. mining and industry is slow and often not worth it.

In other words unless you want to spend hours grinding then plex really is the only way to make money. This gain panders relentlessly to the old player base and dooms new players to oblivion.


This post is so full of horse crap you can smell it from jita to rens.

1) the market is not complex. it is simple and with 10m isk you can start as a new player and make a profit. If you don't have the time to play the .01 ISK game, go to Amarr, Hek, Dodixie, Rens. Jita is a 2000 person system probably 1900 of them are station trading. Go to another hub where you can buy and manipulate. For example I went to hek with my alt and bought every single feint warp disruptor on the market and reposted them for 20% profit and held that margin un-challenged for almost a week at which point I sold out of them and moved to other items..


I've got 100000 navy faction tungsten ammo M sitting at Dodixie at the lowest price and no one is buying it.

But my main reason is that I find the market too complex is that everyone in a region buys for less than they sell apart from NPC Quaffe sales. So you can't never just buy something and sell it a few systems over at a profit that isn't tiny. And half the time I've tried to sell anything someone in half an hour has come along and undercut it.
Daler Farmon
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-09-16 11:38:26 UTC
Neesha Marinn wrote:
Daler Farmon wrote:
@Sin Pew, agree with your latest post. However, OP says:

Harris Girvan wrote:
I am willing to actually put in the time and effort to make the ISK but I want to know the most time and work effective methods to achieve this. This toon has relatively low SP less than two million but it is generally well balanced in most areas.


He is willing to train and not rushing. So, OP put Incursion as your goal and go with that. All the rest things s*cks. Go with missions at the beginning until your skills is up for Incursion. If u r running out of isks, its fine for newbie. Dont be cheap, get some PLEX and sell them. Don't f*uck your game experience for some 20$

This is what you say.

Dont be cheap, but be lazy! Buy ISK with RL cash.
Forget to learn what independancy is and just empty your wallet on x PLEX each month to be able to 'have fun', while you can actually easily afford your newbee stuff with - THATS RIGHT - newbee activities.

You know what buying PLEX does?
Creates incompetency in the long run.
It also denies you from the satisfaction of being able to fund yourself INGAME and actually eventually earn your own PLEX and say screw it to buying PLEX with cash - you'll afford your monthly fees with ISK.

Get out of this thread please.


U r kind of gamers that plays this f*cking game for the whole day non stop!!! Am I right? As a newbie he should do mining, probably sh*tty lvl2-lvl3 mission every day for 4-5 hours minimum during the 2-3 weeks to make enough isks to get PLEX. Does he want it? At the beginning I'm alright to buy some PLEX and its addition income to CCP for future improvements. PPLs like u make developers work on sh*tty salary and make them go to other projects. Some ppls simply play games for fun, and its not job to play it whole day just to be able to play it another day.. WTF.
Neesha Marinn
Doomheim
#30 - 2013-09-16 11:38:55 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:

I've got a 100000 navy faction tungsten ammo M sitting at Dodixie at the lowest price and no one is buying it.

But my main reason is that I find the market too complex is that everyone in a region buys for less than they sell apart from NPC Quaffe sales. So you can't never just buy something and sell it a few systems over at a profit that isn't tiny. And half the time I've tried to sell anything someone in half an hour has come along and undercut it.

Did you buy the Tungsten with LP?

If so, here is a tip to see how LP is better spent (if going for ammo).

Ask yourself, what is the favored hybrid ammo for 95% of the guys that PvP?
Antimatter.

Take a little risk and sell that one jump into lowsec, or one jump out of it in spots relatively distant from good trade hubs (and where PvP takes place frequently obviously), at a slightly higher price than tradehubs, so that those who'd like to restock don't always have to send their alts across a gazillion jumps to pick some up.

You'll ditch your stacks in no time.

No one buys Tungsten enough to justify buying that with LP.

Alternatively, there are quite a few other goods you can get rid off superfast that cost more LP and require some ISK input but will increase your gains.
Paul Otichoda
Perkone
Caldari State
#31 - 2013-09-16 11:40:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Paul Otichoda
Neesha Marinn wrote:
Paul Otichoda wrote:

I've got a 100000 navy faction tungsten ammo M sitting at Dodixie at the lowest price and no one is buying it.

But my main reason is that I find the market too complex is that everyone in a region buys for less than they sell apart from NPC Quaffe sales. So you can't never just buy something and sell it a few systems over at a profit that isn't tiny. And half the time I've tried to sell anything someone in half an hour has come along and undercut it.

Did you buy the Tungsten with LP?

If so, here is a tip to see how LP is better spent (if going for ammo).

Ask yourself, what is the favored hybrid ammo for 95% of the guys that PvP?
Antimatter.

Take a little risk and sell that one jump into lowsec, or one jump out of it in spots relatively distant from good trade hubs (and where PvP takes place frequently obviously), at a slightly higher price than tradehubs, so that those who'd like to restock don't always have to send their alts across a gazillion jumps to pick some up.

You'll ditch your stacks in no time.

No one buys Tungsten enough to justify buying that with LP.

Alternatively, there are quite a few other goods you can get rid off superfast that cost more LP and require some ISK input but will increase your gains.


then how the hell am I supposed to get rid of this stuff?

damnit someones come and undercut me again.

Its going to impossible to sell this stuff at a decent price
Neesha Marinn
Doomheim
#32 - 2013-09-16 11:43:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Neesha Marinn
Daler Farmon wrote:

U r kind of gamers that plays this f*cking game for the whole day non stop!!! Am I right? As a newbie he should do mining, probably sh*tty lvl2-lvl3 mission every day for 4-5 hours minimum during the 2-3 weeks to make enough isks to get PLEX. Does he want it? At the beginning I'm alright to buy some PLEX and its addition income to CCP for future improvements. PPLs like u make developers work on sh*tty salary and make them go to other projects. Some ppls simply play games for fun, and its not job to play it whole day just to be able to play it another day.. WTF.


No, i'm not.
Full time job. Social life. The sun is fun as well.
Stop being a ridiculously oblivious douchebag because someone calls you out on the crap you spout.
Did I say he can buy his first plex in his first month? no.
Should he aim for that? no.

I come from an eve age where RMT was non existant.
Everybody had to start earning their keep and I can GUARANTEE it's nowhere near as hard as you claim - ESPECIALLY these days.
Start small, focus on small.

I have always played for fun and I still do.
Adjust your spending towards what you can afford and what you can do and PLEX isk will be overkill early on.

You are poison in these newbee threads and just need to keep on buying your PLEX, stay incompetent but for god sake, please don't try to rub off on others.
Get your 2013 face out of here.
Daler Farmon
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#33 - 2013-09-16 11:48:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Daler Farmon
Neesha Marinn wrote:
Daler Farmon wrote:

U r kind of gamers that plays this f*cking game for the whole day non stop!!! Am I right? As a newbie he should do mining, probably sh*tty lvl2-lvl3 mission every day for 4-5 hours minimum during the 2-3 weeks to make enough isks to get PLEX. Does he want it? At the beginning I'm alright to buy some PLEX and its addition income to CCP for future improvements. PPLs like u make developers work on sh*tty salary and make them go to other projects. Some ppls simply play games for fun, and its not job to play it whole day just to be able to play it another day.. WTF.


No, i'm not.
Full time job. Social life. The sun is fun as well.
Stop being a ridiculously oblivious douchebag because someone calls you out on the crap you spout.
Did I say he can buy his first plex in his first month? no.
Should he aim for that? no.

I come from an eve age where RMT was non existant.
Everybody had to start earning their keep and I can GUARANTEE it's nowhere near as hard as you claim - ESPECIALLY these days.
Start small, focus on small.

I have always played for fun and I still do.
Adjust your spending towards what you can afford and what you can do and PLEX isk will be overkill early on.

You are poison in these newbee threads and just need to keep on buying your PLEX, stay incompetent but for god sake, please don't try to rub off on others.


I didnt say he should buy tons of PLEX. U took my comment like I asked him to put all his finance in to this game. No I didnt ask for that. U started it long time ago and that was a long time ago. Now its now, and its really difficult to make ISK to get PLEX for newbie. I'm newbie and I know that. As I said he needs to play 4-5 hours daily within 2-3 weeks to make ISKs... I dont want to play daily 5 hours and do what I dont like to do (i.e mining).

P.S. Im not running on u, it was an answer to your comment like "getting out of this thread"
PPS. The best advice for u, open new acc and see how u will be able to get PLEX, u "dear amazing socially active man".
Neesha Marinn
Doomheim
#34 - 2013-09-16 11:59:49 UTC
Daler Farmon wrote:
Now its now, and its really difficult to make ISK to get PLEX for newbie.
P.S. Im not running on u, it was an answer to your comment like "getting out of this thread"

Now, my friend, is glory days to make ISK compared to then.

The amount of options you get to make ISK next to the old existing methods are better in some fields than they were.
You shouldn't focus on making isk for a PLEX early on.

This is imo what every newbee should do:

- Have a plan to work towards (op has that *check)
- Teach yourself a fitting method of ISK generation.
You can do your own missions. Standings are always useful.
You can buy low-sell high with minimal ISK and minimal patience, you can dabble in faction warfare and rake in LP while getting your feet wet in frigates (you can practically avoid PvP all together while you do so if that's not your thing).
You could mine while you read up on resources, talk to friends, watch a movie or some such.
You can salvage a corpmate's L4 missions, maybe someone in a corp you're in or could join (talking 10-20m easily per mission).
- Spend accordingly to your level of SP and wallet.
- Network. Make friends of varying skill-levels.

Grow from there. Everything only gets increasingly better.
Frank Pannon
Emerald Swine Escavations
#35 - 2013-09-16 12:01:28 UTC
I strongly advise AGAINST buying PLEX for the purpose of sustaining your PVP activities, or buying the shiny ship/module you desire. PLEX should be there to allow you to play for 30 days.

One of the most rewarding aspects of this game is getting better, learning stuff, and gaining from it. Do NOT rob yourself of this experience, you will get jaded, and your gaming experience will be hollow. Getting from rags to riches is fun!

- do some PI (on alt or your main, can be done on same account)
- do some market supply
- sprinkle in some exploration,

it should more than cover the PvP needs for a starter player.


And most of all ... do what is fun for you!
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2013-09-16 12:48:25 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
xKesterx wrote:
Sin Pew wrote:
What the guy didn't get, is that you're never locked into one single career in EVE unless you lock yourself into it. A good bunch of friends to play with can make even mining, an entertaining moment.

Trying to do just one thing to gather some wealth, will just lead to a burnout or boredom. It also takes a lot more time to do well alone. There again, doing stuff with corpmates can change a lot on the perceived entertainment and help even the newest players getting a grasp on stuff earlier than they would if trying to figure it out by themselves.


This.

Also joining corpmates on higher level missions than you can solo is a great way to gain experience and top up your isk.


I'm already at level 4s solo so its not too bad. Its just that they take so long to do.


I'm getting them done in about an hour for the harder ones, less for the easier ones. Sure, it's not the L3s that i was finishing in 15 min flat, but it's not that bad.
Andracin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2013-09-16 12:55:52 UTC
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Andracin wrote:


4)PVP is not supposed to be an isk faucet, its an isk sink. If you expect engaging in an activity that blows stuff up to make your money, you need to lay off the drugs.



It can make you good isk. Very good isk.




Once you get good, yes, especially in your line of work. As a completely new player to the game still learning the mechanics...not so much.
Elena Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2013-09-16 12:59:34 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
then how the hell am I supposed to get rid of this stuff?

damnit someones come and undercut me again.

Its going to impossible to sell this stuff at a decent price


Sell it to a buy order, accept your losses and next time do some research on what sells and what doesn't before investing a bunch of ISK into something that barely sells at all.

This isn't the fault of the market, it's because you didn't check whether the item you were trading was in demand or not (hint Tungsten faction ammo isn't)

A cursory check of the Sinq Laison market shows that the volume of Tungsten M traded is a couple of orders of magnitude less than Antimatter M. In short, you invested in something that moves very slowly and has fairly low demand.
Lilliana Stelles
#39 - 2013-09-16 13:07:09 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
embrel wrote:
Paul Otichoda wrote:


I'm already at level 4s solo so its not too bad. Its just that they take so long to do.


do you use a sentry ship?

since I bought a Dominix, L4's have become very comfortable.


no raven



What type of DPS are you getting out of it?
Ravens are usually overtanked, too slow moving, and don't hit small targets quite hard enough.

I've found that an autocannon Machariel or Maelstrom can get most missions done in about 15-25 minutes depending on difficulty. Enemies abound Part V and some others being exceptions (ones where you have to wait around for spawns).

Raven is very forgiving but far from ideal.

Not a forum alt. 
Sin Pew
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2013-09-16 13:09:52 UTC
Daler Farmon wrote:
@Sin Pew, agree with your latest post. However, OP says:

Harris Girvan wrote:
I am willing to actually put in the time and effort to make the ISK but I want to know the most time and work effective methods to achieve this. This toon has relatively low SP less than two million but it is generally well balanced in most areas.


He is willing to train and not rushing. So, OP put Incursion as your goal and go with that. All the rest things s*cks. Go with missions at the beginning until your skills is up for Incursion. If u r running out of isks, its fine for newbie. Dont be cheap, get some PLEX and sell them. Don't f*uck your game experience for some 20$

Strictly speaking, aiming for incursions as a long term goal is perfectly fine, but the guy also has to have some fun and occupation in the meantime, don't you think?
When focusing purely on numbers, incursions are a fairly good money maker in game considering the lack of risk, but even as a spanking new player, there are many opportunities to fund a "new player level" content and amply more when, that's the major point, teaming up with others.

If people want to use PLEX bought with RL money to fuel their game, by all means, let them do. There's tons of bought characters with pimped ships all over EVE-kill.

What I find irritating, is the lingering discourse that there's nothing to do in EVE without one year worth of SP and a multi-billion wallet. Buying PLEX for ISK, creates a false sense of wealth that results in people leaving the game because they don't know how to play it. Just like sticking to missions for a year just to wait until the guy can hop into a deadspace fitted Vindicator is likely to drive him off.

EVE is a very complex and rich game, there are numerous examples of setups that can generate billions with very few skillpoints, but there's an important point to figure about these: they're pulled off by experienced players. Sure RL money can buy ISK and thus, buy skilled characters and assets, but it doesn't replace in-game experience and even impacts learning it, in a negative way.

Hence my stance, the best experience, is to find a good corp with experienced players and actually learn from them. You can learn a lot and earn a lot by playing with others, instead of trying to play the game like SWG, because there's no ultimate skillset and combo to be the best at EVE, since there's simply no best and no endgame (unless making billions per week is your endgame, but then, what's the point of being space-rich if you do nothing with it?).

Given that losses are definitive in EVE and almost inevitable, a young player with limited assets has little to lose in the beginning if supported by a good corp, whatever he loses can be made up again through taging along. He can dip his fingers in diverse activities otherwise denied to him on his own for lack of experience or SP.

Overall, SP and ISK means little in EVE, as it can't make up for player experience and that's all the difference between someone who can rip benefits from shared experiences and someone rage-quitting over a gank.

[i]"haiku are easy, But sometimes they don't make sense, Refrigerator."[/i]
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