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In the Lore, How Much Would a Single ISK be Worth?

First post
Author
Alara IonStorm
#41 - 2011-10-30 18:20:13 UTC
Phyress wrote:
Why are there all these nonsensical submarine/EVE-dreadnaught analogies? They have a whole two things in common: They shoot things, and the fact that letting the atmosphere out of the hull is bad.

Someone tried to say that since a US Sub cost a Bil and a Dread Cost a Bil you just have to Scale Up.

Which is not true since Minerals and Construction are completely different between future Starship and Boat.
Renan Ruivo
Hengetools Consumer Products S.A.
#42 - 2011-10-30 18:27:49 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:

You cannot build a dread in one hour.

Its not a challenge, its a fact. Dread BPO is 2 weeks manufacturing time.

I never said build a Dread in one hour but produce one an Hour. If you start one every hour hour eventually they will be produced every hour which is what my original post was referring to and the subsequent ones poking fun at.

Every Hour Dreadnaughts are being made, you do not see that in the real world like with Submarines. It's mass production I was speaking to not build time.


That is just semantics. You actually said that assembly lines can pump one every hour and that is false as well. Assembly lines can only pump one dread every 7 days at max production efficiency like the poster on the 2nd page stated. A production line might be able to pump a dread every hour if you have enough assembly lines inside said production line to organize it, and if that is truly what you meant than yes, in that case you are correct. Assembly line != Production line. But like i said, that is just semantics..


Still, semantics or not, a covetor cannot mine enough ore to build a dread in one day not even with All Level V skills and all orca/rorqual bonuses. With one HULK, it took me over one week to mine enough ore for my first carrier. And a dread takes oh so much more ore than a carrier does.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.

Henry Haphorn
Killer Yankee
#43 - 2011-10-30 18:30:53 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Henry Haphorn wrote:


Note that SilentSkills said] that if you take into account size, technology, and weaponry, then this will mean that it will take several or more earth made submarines to be able to equal the cost of just a single Dreadnought should USD be converted to ISK. So, 1 ISK = a boatload of USD.

And as I showed that could be completely mistaken and that Sub could be more expensive then the Dreadnaught.

Henry Haphorn wrote:

The same can be said for a Rifter in New Eden and a 747 Jumbo Jet here on Earth. They are both the same size and perhaps the same weight, but the level of technology between the two and weaponry will mean that it will cost several or more 747 Jumbo Jets to equal the production costs of just one Rifter (and this is comparing to a T1 frigate).

Says who.

Production on Earth does not have Nanobots that put ships together. Earth also can not Vacumm 8000m3 of Metal out of a Rock in 15min. A Rifter could cost 1/10th as much as a 747 to produce.

Henry Haphorn wrote:

Actually, we technically can. Think about it.

I did, conclusion you can not.


Nevermind (and I don't mean this as a sign of defeat)

Adapt or Die

Alara IonStorm
#44 - 2011-10-30 18:37:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Renan Ruivo wrote:

You actually said that assembly lines can pump one every hour and that is false as well.

No I did not say that. I did not say that at all.
Quote:
Nano Tech and Assembly Lines can Pump out Dreadnoughts every hour.

I never said how many assembly lines or ships only that they can be produced at fast rates such as hourly.


Renan Ruivo wrote:

Assembly lines can only pump one dread every 7 days at max production efficiency like the poster on the 2nd page stated. A production line might be able to pump a dread every hour if you have enough assembly lines inside said production line to organize it, and if that is truly what you meant than yes, in that case you are correct. Assembly line != Production line. But like i said, that is just semantics..

Semantics is the study of meaning. The meaning is to show the scale of construction in relation to earth to disprove the Sub Scaled Up = a Dreadnaught Theory.

Renan Ruivo wrote:

Still, semantics or not, a covetor cannot mine enough ore to build a dread in one day not even with All Level V skills and all orca/rorqual bonuses. With one HULK, it took me over one week to mine enough ore for my first carrier. And a dread takes oh so much more ore than a carrier does.

Ok, as I said I do not Mine. But I doubt it would take a week sucking Minerals 24 hours. My original point that in the EVE Universe material is easier to get. Even if I did undershoot the original estimate.

Weird how the point of all of this was you can not compare objects on Earth's Construction Cost to Objects built in EVE. That got buried in Semantics...
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#45 - 2011-10-30 18:48:02 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Spitfire
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:

You cannot build a dread in one hour.

Its not a challenge, its a fact. Dread BPO is 2 weeks manufacturing time.

I never said build a Dread in one hour but produce one an Hour. If you start one every hour hour eventually they will be produced every hour which is what my original post was referring to and the subsequent ones poking fun at.

Every Hour Dreadnaughts are being made, you do not see that in the real world like with Submarines. It's mass production I was speaking to not build time.



Sigh...*snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. Spitfire

If this is a troll, I will bite.

Let's assume for a moment that you can magically build a Dread in 7 days, or 168 hours.
To do what you want then requires 168 fg slots going at one time, just for the ships.
Let's further assume you have 3 chars/account, all with maxed industry skills.
That is 33 mfg slots.
You are into a 6th char, just to produce one Dread/hour.

That of course is ignoring the 168 researched Dread BPO's (168 would cost about 250 BILLION from the NPC stores) or Dread BPC's that have to be created one/ hour (ever looked at the copy time on a Dread BPO?), plus the mining of 1 billion plus ISK of mins/ hour, plus the 1 billion ISK/hour in minerals that have to be moved, the manufacturing of the dread components, etc etc.

I am sure a single person can do that....well, maybe not.

Let's try it takes very well run , extremely well-funded corp to pump out 5 dreads/week.
Paragon Renegade
Sebiestor Tribe
#46 - 2011-10-30 18:49:42 UTC
You guys really love to argue.

The pie is a tautology

Renan Ruivo
Hengetools Consumer Products S.A.
#47 - 2011-10-30 18:52:32 UTC
Paragon Renegade wrote:
You guys really love to argue.



I call it practice.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.

Renan Ruivo
Hengetools Consumer Products S.A.
#48 - 2011-10-30 18:53:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Renan Ruivo
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:

You actually said that assembly lines can pump one every hour and that is false as well.

No I did not say that. I did not say that at all.


Alara IonStorm wrote:
* [...]Assembly Lines can Pump out Dreadnoughts every hour.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.

Alara IonStorm
#49 - 2011-10-30 18:55:17 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

Sigh...I am profoundly stupid and willfully ignorant and should be kept far, far away from keyboards.

I am a troll, Make up some stuff that has nothing to do with the post I quoted.

That makes more sense.

Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

Let's assume for a moment that you can magically build a Dread in 7 days, or 168 hours.
To do what you want then requires 168 fg slots going at one time, just for the ships.
Let's further assume you have 3 chars/account, all with maxed industry skills.
That is 33 mfg slots.
You are into a 6th char, just to produce one Dread/hour.

That of course is ignoring the 168 researched Dread BPO's (168 would cost about 250 BILLION from the NPC stores) or Dread BPC's that have to be created one/ hour (ever looked at the copy time on a Dread BPO?), plus the mining of 1 billion plus ISK of mins/ hour, plus the 1 billion ISK/hour in minerals that have to be moved, the manufacturing of the dread components, etc etc.

I am sure a single person can do that....well, maybe not.

Let's try it takes very well run , extremely well-funded corp to pump out 5 dreads/week.

It is great that one Corp can do that. But I am speaking to Dreads as a whole over all of EVE. The fact that they are produced on Mass unlike Submarines. That they are not rare but always being built somewhere in the universe.

But you lost the original point point pages ago or never bothered to read it =/
Alara IonStorm
#50 - 2011-10-30 18:56:46 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:

You actually said that assembly lines can pump one every hour and that is false as well.

No I did not say that. I did not say that at all.


Alara IonStorm wrote:
* I never said how many assembly lines or ships only that they can be produced at fast rates such as hourly.

You quoted the wrong part so I fixed it for you.
Paragon Renegade
Sebiestor Tribe
#51 - 2011-10-30 18:58:39 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:



Dreads are not fodder, but there are probably a dozen or so that are made daily, at the very least.

The pie is a tautology

Renan Ruivo
Hengetools Consumer Products S.A.
#52 - 2011-10-30 19:00:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Renan Ruivo
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:

You actually said that assembly lines can pump one every hour and that is false as well.

No I did not say that. I did not say that at all.


Alara IonStorm wrote:
* I never said how many assembly lines or ships only that they can be produced at fast rates such as hourly.

You quoted the wrong part so I fixed it for you.


No, i quoted exactly as you put it. On your original post

"* Nano Tech and Assembly Lines can Pump out Dreadnoughts every hour"

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.

Alara IonStorm
#53 - 2011-10-30 19:01:50 UTC
Paragon Renegade wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:



Dreads are not fodder, but there are probably a dozen or so that are made daily, at the very least.

What do you mean by Fodder?

I am only saying that it is likely that they are produced more easily in EVE then a large object on Earth so construction costs can not be compared.

Also something to do with build time some angry folks brought up.

Not sure why.
Paragon Renegade
Sebiestor Tribe
#54 - 2011-10-30 19:05:20 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Paragon Renegade wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:



Dreads are not fodder, but there are probably a dozen or so that are made daily, at the very least.

What do you mean by Fodder?

I am only saying that it is likely that they are produced more easily in EVE then a large object on Earth so construction costs can not be compared.

Also something to do with build time some angry folks brought up.

Not sure why.


Well yeah, obivously, the Eve universe has nanomanufacturing, space-based mineral extraction & a heap of other crap we don't have here, so regular things probably cost the equivalent of a few cents.

The pie is a tautology

Alara IonStorm
#55 - 2011-10-30 19:06:44 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:

You actually said that assembly lines can pump one every hour and that is false as well.



Renan Ruivo wrote:

No, i quoted exactly as you put it. On your original post

"* Nano Tech and Assembly Lines can Pump out Dreadnoughts every hour"

And you are still wrong. You misunderstand that assembly lines(plural as in more then one) can pump out Dreads every hour. You keep putting strange limits on build time while I am talking about the universe as a whole. I also never said one. So it is not at all false.

Your brain works in a strange way. Also it makes things up.
Alara IonStorm
#56 - 2011-10-30 19:08:08 UTC
Paragon Renegade wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Paragon Renegade wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:



Dreads are not fodder, but there are probably a dozen or so that are made daily, at the very least.

What do you mean by Fodder?

I am only saying that it is likely that they are produced more easily in EVE then a large object on Earth so construction costs can not be compared.

Also something to do with build time some angry folks brought up.

Not sure why.


Well yeah, obivously, the Eve universe has nanomanufacturing, space-based mineral extraction & a heap of other crap we don't have here, so regular things probably cost the equivalent of a few cents.

Yay it is my original point. I missed you.
Renan Ruivo
Hengetools Consumer Products S.A.
#57 - 2011-10-30 19:40:02 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Paragon Renegade wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Paragon Renegade wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:



Dreads are not fodder, but there are probably a dozen or so that are made daily, at the very least.

What do you mean by Fodder?

I am only saying that it is likely that they are produced more easily in EVE then a large object on Earth so construction costs can not be compared.

Also something to do with build time some angry folks brought up.

Not sure why.


Well yeah, obivously, the Eve universe has nanomanufacturing, space-based mineral extraction & a heap of other crap we don't have here, so regular things probably cost the equivalent of a few cents.

Yay it is my original point. I missed you.


No, your original point was that an assembly line can make a dreadnought every hour. Its not an "imaginary" limit. If someone is "imagining" stuff here its you. The dreadnought bluepring clearly states the manufacturing time, and you can't get faster than 7 days with it.

Also, i think you might have meant that you can set up several assembly lines in such order that one dreadnought would be built every hour, but that example also applies for any assembly line, in science fiction or in the real world. So its moot.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.

Alara IonStorm
#58 - 2011-10-30 19:47:24 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:

No, your original point was that an assembly line can make a dreadnought every hour. Its not an "imaginary" limit. If someone is "imagining" stuff here its you. The dreadnought bluepring clearly states the manufacturing time, and you can't get faster than 7 days with it.

So you have turned to straight up lying now. Good Job. I never said an assembly line or a Dreadnought.

But if you choose to believe that fine you win what ever thing you think you needed to win in your head to feel like you have a big penis. Something to do with semantics.
Renan Ruivo wrote:

Also, i think you might have meant that you can set up several assembly lines in such order that one dreadnought would be built every hour, but that example also applies for any assembly line, in science fiction or in the real world. So its moot.

I do not see how it is moot that they can make assembly lines that turn out 3 km Dreadnoughts.
Renan Ruivo
Hengetools Consumer Products S.A.
#59 - 2011-10-30 19:53:11 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:
But if you choose to believe that fine you win what ever thing you think you needed to win in your head to feel like you have a big *****


I chose to have a nice debate of ideas with some people on the thread.. without having to resort to words that fail to get through the profanity filter.. If you choose to get past civilized debate and delve into the realm of profanity.. then i concede you victory because that is not a place i want to go to.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.

Nex apparatu5
Blackwood Co.
#60 - 2011-10-30 20:00:37 UTC
Using the price of RL cruise missiles vs Eve cruise missiles, you get about 1 isk = $5000. This ended up being mostly accurate when I did further maths.