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destroyers - gankers and high sec

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Belana Mawr
Doomheim
#41 - 2013-09-15 16:11:19 UTC
Ghost Phius wrote:
I think I'll tell my ganker friends about this thread. They might find an interesting target.Twisted



you have friends??


Thanks for your valuable input
Lady Areola Fappington
#42 - 2013-09-15 16:11:53 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
CCP buffs the tank for all barges and exhumers nerfing forever the idea of a Hulkageddon...........and "they" still complain.Roll


Unfortunately, CCP hasn't built the tank directly into the hull yet. Look for mining barges and exhumers to be revamped to be almost exactly like freighters in the near future. Mining vessels will have max mining output rolled into the hull, as well as the resists, and resultant EHP of a DCU, invuln, and shield extenders/rigs, leaving only high slots for the chosen mining modules.

Or course, they will still scream like babbies fresh off the teat when their crap continues to be ganked.




You know just as well as I do, no matter what CCP does to buff miners, they'll still pick the one with the largest ore bay, aim it at a rock, then go AFK. Then get ganked. Then complain about it.

The smart one's who stay ATK and use the tools provided will continue to make ISK.


Hey, Feature Idea. Take the retty/makinaw, trade highslot numbers with the proc/skiff, then swap the role bonus with the covetor/hulk. I mean, they're AFK anyway, who cares how long it takes to fill the hold.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#43 - 2013-09-15 16:12:00 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Falin Whalen wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
CCP buffs the tank for all barges and exhumers nerfing forever the idea of a Hulkageddon...........and "they" still complain.Roll

Well yea, they buffed the tank so that they don't have to tank their Hulk/Mackinaw, and instead concentrate on max yield. Sheesh, get with the times man.


Some yes. Others no. Generalizing about 'everyone' is always a bad idea.


you don't understand scarcasm do you?



Sarcasm............in MY GD ????

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Belana Mawr
Doomheim
#44 - 2013-09-15 16:14:10 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Domanique Altares wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
CCP buffs the tank for all barges and exhumers nerfing forever the idea of a Hulkageddon...........and "they" still complain.Roll


Unfortunately, CCP hasn't built the tank directly into the hull yet. Look for mining barges and exhumers to be revamped to be almost exactly like freighters in the near future. Mining vessels will have max mining output rolled into the hull, as well as the resists, and resultant EHP of a DCU, invuln, and shield extenders/rigs, leaving only high slots for the chosen mining modules.

Or course, they will still scream like babbies fresh off the teat when their crap continues to be ganked.




You know just as well as I do, no matter what CCP does to buff miners, they'll still pick the one with the largest ore bay, aim it at a rock, then go AFK. Then get ganked. Then complain about it.

The smart one's who stay ATK and use the tools provided will continue to make ISK.


Hey, Feature Idea. Take the retty/makinaw, trade highslot numbers with the proc/skiff, then swap the role bonus with the covetor/hulk. I mean, they're AFK anyway, who cares how long it takes to fill the hold.



Even if you are not afk and aligned the speed these destroyers take out exhumers is scary, Insta lock and scram... game over
Lilliana Stelles
#45 - 2013-09-15 16:16:17 UTC
PLEASE tell me the system where these flashy reds camp out at a safe spot.

And why no one scans them down.

Not a forum alt. 
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#46 - 2013-09-15 16:17:40 UTC
Belana Mawr wrote:
Even if you are not afk and aligned the speed these destroyers take out exhumers is scary, Insta lock and scram... game over

Fortunately, insta-warp beats not-insta-appear-on-grid.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#47 - 2013-09-15 16:17:58 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Domanique Altares wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Have you tried hunting down and killing them?

Good morning, Tippia. I see that you've brought your sense of humor today.

Rumour has it that the new scanning system is severely dumbed-down and automated these days. Surely even a miner can make use of it?


It's possible, but you have to give up a lot of potential yield to do it.

[Retriever, Gank Hunter]
Co-Processor I
Co-Processor I
Mining Laser Upgrade II

[empty med slot]

Expanded Probe Launcher I, Sisters Combat Scanner Probe
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I

Medium Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I
Medium Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I

Hobgoblin II x5
Jim Era
#48 - 2013-09-15 16:18:54 UTC
Do not let violent urges control you
We could all be friends,

I suggest CCP disable target locking of fellow capsuleers to help us become a more unified community

Wat™
Lady Areola Fappington
#49 - 2013-09-15 16:19:19 UTC
Belana Mawr wrote:

Even if you are not afk and aligned the speed these destroyers take out exhumers is scary, Insta lock and scram... game over


Yeah, it's really super fast if you're AFK.

Me, I've found it really obvious when a gank team rolls in. The spawning and pulling concord, flashy reds in local, blatantly obvious scout alts scanning people for fits... I've seen it take between 3-5 minutes to line up one gank. Ain't nobody got time to align and run in 3 minutes!


If a gank team is on grid with you, the fight is already done. You defeat a gank before that moment.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#50 - 2013-09-15 16:20:36 UTC
Belana Mawr wrote:


Even if you are not afk and aligned the speed these destroyers take out exhumers is scary, Insta lock and scram... game over


If you're not AFK, then you must notice that scanning ship or Venture with its nose crammed square up the ass of your mining ship at 0m, providing the warp-in for his gank buddies. That's your first indicator that it's time to GTFO.
Belana Mawr
Doomheim
#51 - 2013-09-15 16:23:54 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
Belana Mawr wrote:


Even if you are not afk and aligned the speed these destroyers take out exhumers is scary, Insta lock and scram... game over


If you're not AFK, then you must notice that scanning ship or Venture with its nose crammed square up the ass of your mining ship at 0m, providing the warp-in for his gank buddies. That's your first indicator that it's time to GTFO.



in my experience there is no way of seeing a covert ship? that's what provided the warp in

and we are talking about one ship/player here not a gank squad causing local to spike

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#52 - 2013-09-15 16:24:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Belana Mawr wrote:

Even if you are not afk and aligned the speed these destroyers take out exhumers is scary, Insta lock and scram... game over

Blame Concord P with current Concord response times they get a very limited window in which to kill you, so they bring sufficient firepower to do the job in the time allocated. They rarely scram either, they have no need to when ~75% of their targets can't be bothered to actually be at the keyboard Shocked

Making Concord respond faster won't save you, it's totally possible to suicide ships in a 1.0 with a Concord response time of circa 6 seconds.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#53 - 2013-09-15 16:31:04 UTC
Belana Mawr wrote:


in my experience there is no way of seeing a covert ship? that's what provided the warp in


Yeah, and by the time his buddy landed, you were already a ways away, because you were mining aligned, orbiting, or at least burning around instead of sitting still, right? You had your drones out and orbiting to keep a covops from getting too close to you, right?

And a solo ganker with no scout is not going to catch you before you can warp out if you're paying attention. Don't mine on the warpin to the belt, or anywhere near it. Mine aligned as much as possible, or orbit your asteroid. Fit a damned tank and quit going for max yield all the time.

Really, what you should do is stop all this pedantic crap, and ask Baltec or Fappington or another regular ganker if you can tag along on a real gank of some sort, so that you can see what it's like on the other side of things. You can see who gets left alone and why, who gets away and why, and maybe have some clue as you why you or your friends were singled out to die. Because us telling you people over and over how to avoid it doesn't seem to work. Maybe learning by doing would help.
Lady Areola Fappington
#54 - 2013-09-15 16:38:29 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
Belana Mawr wrote:


in my experience there is no way of seeing a covert ship? that's what provided the warp in


Yeah, and by the time his buddy landed, you were already a ways away, because you were mining aligned, orbiting, or at least burning around instead of sitting still, right? You had your drones out and orbiting to keep a covops from getting too close to you, right?

And a solo ganker with no scout is not going to catch you before you can warp out if you're paying attention. Don't mine on the warpin to the belt, or anywhere near it. Mine aligned as much as possible, or orbit your asteroid. Fit a damned tank and quit going for max yield all the time.

Really, what you should do is stop all this pedantic crap, and ask Baltec or Fappington or another regular ganker if you can tag along on a real gank of some sort, so that you can see what it's like on the other side of things. You can see who gets left alone and why, who gets away and why, and maybe have some clue as you why you or your friends were singled out to die. Because us telling you people over and over how to avoid it doesn't seem to work. Maybe learning by doing would help.



True fact, The New Order often allows miners to do a "ride along" on a few ganks, just to see exactly how it's done.

You want the utter best defense against ganking? Come gank for a few weeks. Set you up an 8 hour hero, and ask to go on fleets. What's the worst that can happen, you have fun and refuse to go back to mining?

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#55 - 2013-09-15 16:42:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:

True fact, The New Order often allows miners to do a "ride along" on a few ganks, just to see exactly how it's done.

You want the utter best defense against ganking? Come gank for a few weeks. Set you up an 8 hour hero, and ask to go on fleets. What's the worst that can happen, you have fun and refuse to go back to mining?

^^ QFT

I've been known to gank on one account, and alt tab to mine with a Procuror during GCC cooldown on another.
It's a win/win situation, I get to impose extra costs onto my competitors, and sell stuff to people who may otherwise have bought it from the person that just exploded.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Renault T'Bonin
Doomheim
#56 - 2013-09-15 17:16:38 UTC
Belana Mawr wrote:
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Domanique Altares wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
CCP buffs the tank for all barges and exhumers nerfing forever the idea of a Hulkageddon...........and "they" still complain.Roll


Unfortunately, CCP hasn't built the tank directly into the hull yet. Look for mining barges and exhumers to be revamped to be almost exactly like freighters in the near future. Mining vessels will have max mining output rolled into the hull, as well as the resists, and resultant EHP of a DCU, invuln, and shield extenders/rigs, leaving only high slots for the chosen mining modules.

Or course, they will still scream like babbies fresh off the teat when their crap continues to be ganked.




You know just as well as I do, no matter what CCP does to buff miners, they'll still pick the one with the largest ore bay, aim it at a rock, then go AFK. Then get ganked. Then complain about it.

The smart one's who stay ATK and use the tools provided will continue to make ISK.


Hey, Feature Idea. Take the retty/makinaw, trade highslot numbers with the proc/skiff, then swap the role bonus with the covetor/hulk. I mean, they're AFK anyway, who cares how long it takes to fill the hold.



Even if you are not afk and aligned the speed these destroyers take out exhumers is scary, Insta lock and scram... game over


Agreed.

I've got an alt I don't use from years ago that was maxed for destroyers.... so I test ganked one of my other characters.

With align and tank, it's a fail against a Catalyst for either a Covetor or a Hulk. There is no defense in .6 or .5. Maybe with a faction fitting.... but the expense is ridiculous.

So survivability is a lie told by the usual suspects. Align, tank, and warp is a lie.

If there's not a change to the expense reward ratio for ganking- industry will be deeply curtailed in high sec. It's safer in low sec (sort of). But most of the victims of these ganks are not at the skill, financial or experience level where low sec is an option. Also many high sec miners are casual players. Moving into low sec, managing a pos, and handling logistics/shipping requires more commitment than a casual player is willing to give.

It's a shame. It's one of the places that CCP fails. They've always worked towards balance in the game. Except on this one issue- a 12 million ISK combat ship, can take out a 250 million harvesting ship- right under the nose of the police. You would think that the ORE corporation would design their ships with better survifvability. It's sort of like having a machine gun, destroy a bulldozer.... makes no sense.

I'm not so concerned with the Covetor issue since it's fairly insurable.

Though I've been thinking about this for while...

One good compromise might be to buff the Covetor a bit.... and exile the Exhumer line of ships to low/null sec. The exhumers are really better suited to rat tanking and therefor are great in low/null.

If CCP wants to allow Covetors and below to be insta-ganked by a ship half the price.. I can live with that. Still think it's a bad policy.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#57 - 2013-09-15 17:26:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Renault T'Bonin wrote:
I've got an alt I don't use from years ago that was maxed for destroyers.... so I test ganked one of my other characters.

With align and tank, it's a fail against a Catalyst for either a Covetor or a Hulk. There is no defense in .6 or .5. Maybe with a faction fitting.... but the expense is ridiculous.

So survivability is a lie told by the usual suspects. Align, tank, and warp is a lie.
…as long as you still believe in (and practice) the fairy-tales of “passive aligning” or 1000dps catalysts, or if you think that a tank means a shield booster.

As long as you stick to reality, though, both aligning to instawarp and tanking your ship work nicely.

Quote:
If there's not a change to the expense reward ratio for ganking- industry will be deeply curtailed in high sec.
No, it really won't. If it did, highsec industry would have been wiped out many many years ago. Instead, it's as strong as (or stronger than) ever.

Quote:
They've always worked towards balance in the game. Except on this one issue- a 12 million ISK combat ship, can take out a 250 million harvesting ship- right under the nose of the police. You would think that the ORE corporation would design their ships with better survifvability.
“Except”? What you just described is balance: a combat ship takes out a harvesting ship. It is as it should be. If anything, there's an imbalance in the opposite direction, in the fact that EVE makes this harder than it should be. Oh, and the ORE corporation has already given their ships better survivability.
Dalmont Delantee
Gecko Corp
#58 - 2013-09-15 17:28:26 UTC
Does it matter?

None of the mining barges need any more of a buff. EVE is not a place where you can happily do what you want anywhere. You are always in danger you are always potentially dead. Thats the point of EVE.

Now please please get over this hissy fit of dying and stop worrying!
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#59 - 2013-09-15 17:30:06 UTC
I don't know where the rest of you are mining, but my miner survives 9 out of 10 gank attempts.

Most gankers are just a couple of yahoos that are looking for tears. If you can't tank 90% of ganks in a Mack, you shouldn't be mining. And if you are even half way on the ball, you should be able to shame them by adding them to your KB. Plenty of time to lock a pod while they are sitting there going 'wtf?' because you are still in one piece.

Mr Epeen Cool
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#60 - 2013-09-15 17:45:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Bertrand Butler
Jim Roebuck wrote:
800DPS Dessie, where can I get that fit?


[Catalyst, Gank Heavy]

Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script

Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S

Small Hybrid Burst Aerator II
Small Hybrid Locus Coordinator I
[Empty Rig slot]

Zainou 'Deadeye' Small Hybrid Turret SH-606
Pashan's Turret Customization Mindlink

802 DPS hot void, no faction MFSs. Of course, you will never see a pod like that so...RF-903 and SH-603 give you 747DPS. Also, you will likely never encounter the 9.5mil T2 aerator in a ganking setup, so you get about 728DPS @max skills in a full gank setup with an HBA and a HCA.

...which is not used anyway because its preferable to swap the second damage rig with 2 locus. The end result is 708DPS @max skills for a 11-12mil Cata.