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destroyers - gankers and high sec

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Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#521 - 2013-09-21 03:31:46 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Georgina Parmala wrote:

I don't see anything about single-shard MMO in the snipet you posted. I do see Private server functionality though, which throws that single shard thing right out the window.


That's right, private servers with private rules. Imagine if EVE did that, some people would have high sec servers with pvp turned completly off....

Quote:
[
Also, I hear you like games where you get a hundred guys together to accomplish a goal, only to have 10 people undo all your progress over night while you sleep/go to work. Do you have a better idea than timers for protecting player generated structures from other players?


It amazes me how people like you and me can see the folly of that kind of situation (and understand that the idea is pure stupid) and others just...can't.

One persistent universe which is why there's a server to store everyone s data. If it wasn't a persistent universe the data could be stored locally. One of the main differences, since its a twitch based game style, is that the server will create an instance of a system if more than 100 people are in one system at a time, otherwise all players play within and together in the one persistent universe.

There are options to lan play or play single player as well.

As for the 100 people having their work undone by 10 people why not? If the 100 all logged off and went to sleep they can't expect to have their "work" aka play protected in a sandbox. If you leave your sand castle and go home, then sure someone can come along and stomp on it. That's what a sand box is about.

If you want your sandcastle to be there tomorrow, then make sure some guys are in the pit to protect it while your sleeping.

And I have proposed a solution in Assembly Hall for this problem and its not the removal of timers.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#522 - 2013-09-21 03:34:16 UTC
Quote:
One of the main differences, since its a twitch based game style, is that the server will create an instance of a system if more than 100 people are in one system at a time, otherwise all players play within and together in the one persistent universe.


This is a direct contradiction in terms.

If it's instanced, it is NOT a persistent, single shard.

"Oh, it's a persistent, but, if, unless, except..."

Yeah, no.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#523 - 2013-09-21 03:36:30 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
One of the main differences, since its a twitch based game style, is that the server will create an instance of a system if more than 100 people are in one system at a time, otherwise all players play within and together in the one persistent universe.

This is a direct contradiction in terms.

If it's instanced, it is NOT a persistent, single shard.

"Oh, it's a persistent, but, if, unless, except..."

Yeah, no.

You spotted that eh. Someone wanted to have their cake, eat it, and also share it with their 20,000 friends too

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#524 - 2013-09-21 03:41:21 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
One of the main differences, since its a twitch based game style, is that the server will create an instance of a system if more than 100 people are in one system at a time, otherwise all players play within and together in the one persistent universe.


This is a direct contradiction in terms.

If it's instanced, it is NOT a persistent, single shard.

"Oh, it's a persistent, but, if, unless, except..."

Yeah, no.

Really so any game that creates an instance is not an MMO. We should alert all the MMO's who have instances as they're misrepresenting themselves.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#525 - 2013-09-21 03:44:14 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
One of the main differences, since its a twitch based game style, is that the server will create an instance of a system if more than 100 people are in one system at a time, otherwise all players play within and together in the one persistent universe.


This is a direct contradiction in terms.

If it's instanced, it is NOT a persistent, single shard.

"Oh, it's a persistent, but, if, unless, except..."

Yeah, no.

Really so any game that creates an instance is not an MMO. We should alert all the MMO's who have instances as they're misrepresenting themselves.


Did I say that? Talk about your obvious strawman.

What I said was that you cannot say that you are a persistent single shard if you have to keep saying "but, if, unless, except".

Learn to read, jeez. Or at least learn to stop skimming to look for something to get in a huff about.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#526 - 2013-09-21 03:49:05 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
One of the main differences, since its a twitch based game style, is that the server will create an instance of a system if more than 100 people are in one system at a time, otherwise all players play within and together in the one persistent universe.


This is a direct contradiction in terms.

If it's instanced, it is NOT a persistent, single shard.

"Oh, it's a persistent, but, if, unless, except..."

Yeah, no.

Really so any game that creates an instance is not an MMO. We should alert all the MMO's who have instances as they're misrepresenting themselves.


Did I say that? Talk about your obvious strawman.

What I said was that you cannot say that you are a persistent single shard if you have to keep saying "but, if, unless, except".

Learn to read, jeez. Or at least learn to stop skimming to look for something to get in a huff about.

A persistent world is one in which your changes affect other players who also play in that world. In SC everyone affects the same world. If I find a new solar system it gets named after my character, whenever anyone goes to the solar system they go to Ziona solar system. If I am in the same location as another player I will see that player, if players from the US, Africa, Europe go to a solar system they all see each other. If I mine a rock in that solar system till it depletes, that rock is no longer available to those people. Single persistent shard.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#527 - 2013-09-21 03:56:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Quote:
A persistent world is one in which your changes affect other players who also play in that world. In SC everyone affects the same world. If I find a new solar system it gets named after my character, whenever anyone goes to the solar system they go to Ziona solar system. If I am in the same location as another player I will see that player, if players from the US, Africa, Europe go to a solar system they all see each other. If I mine a rock in that solar system till it depletes, that rock is no longer available to those people. Single persistent shard.


Aaaaand Infinity Ziona redifines yet another industry term to fit her own personal skewed definition of it's meaning.

We're back to this again, folks.

And all that stuff you just said, and before you said if more than a hundred people are in the same place, poof instanced. Which means that it is not, in fact, a single shard. If I am 105th person to show up in that system, I do not see everyone there, because it is instanced.

Ergo, not a single shard.

By the way, the whole "name your system after yourself" amounts to little more than the Dark Souls note system as far as they have revealed. Just because I can see someone else's tracks in Dark Souls does not mean that's a single persistent shard either.

So, let's get back to your whole "you're saying it's not really an MMO' bullshit statement.

Why did you say that? Are you a habitual liar, or were you simply trying to discredit me by the most expedient way possible? I notice you have very quickly shifted gears to an entirely different argument, your typical redefine terms one, but lets discuss that first one for a little while. Please explain your erroneous statement.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#528 - 2013-09-21 04:05:58 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
A persistent world is one in which your changes affect other players who also play in that world. In SC everyone affects the same world. If I find a new solar system it gets named after my character, whenever anyone goes to the solar system they go to Ziona solar system. If I am in the same location as another player I will see that player, if players from the US, Africa, Europe go to a solar system they all see each other. If I mine a rock in that solar system till it depletes, that rock is no longer available to those people. Single persistent shard.


Aaaaand Infinity Ziona redifines yet another industry term to fit her own personal skewed definition of it's meaning.

We're back to this again, folks.

And all that stuff you just said, and before you said if more than a hundred people are in the same place, poof instanced. Which means that it is not, in fact, a single shard. If I am 105th person to show up in that system, I do not see everyone there, because it is instanced.

Ergo, not a single shard.

By the way, the whole "name your system after yourself" amounts to little more than the Dark Souls note system as far as they have revealed. Just because I can see someone else's tracks in Dark Souls does not mean that's a single persistent shard either.

So, let's get back to your whole "you're saying it's not really an MMO' bullshit statement.

Why did you say that? Are you a habitual liar, or were you simply trying to discredit me by the most expedient way possible? I notice you have very quickly shifted gears to an entirely different argument, your typical redefine terms one, but lets discuss that first one for a little while. Please explain your erroneous statement.

Its a single shard. Instancing does not negate that.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#529 - 2013-09-21 04:08:08 UTC
Quote:
Its a single shard. Instancing does not negate that.


Yes, it does. That is the literal definition.

Now, tell me why you said this lie:

Quote:
Really so any game that creates an instance is not an MMO. We should alert all the MMO's who have instances as they're misrepresenting themselves.


Why tell such a whopper, hmm? Why would you deliberately misrepresent what I said, when nothing of the sort had been said by me?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#530 - 2013-09-21 04:09:16 UTC
it's almost like you're falling for an obvious internet spaceships troll

your posting is being ganked

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#531 - 2013-09-21 04:12:36 UTC
Buff posting

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#532 - 2013-09-21 04:18:52 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
Its a single shard. Instancing does not negate that.


Yes, it does. That is the literal definition.

Now, tell me why you said this lie:

Quote:
Really so any game that creates an instance is not an MMO. We should alert all the MMO's who have instances as they're misrepresenting themselves.


Why tell such a whopper, hmm? Why would you deliberately misrepresent what I said, when nothing of the sort had been said by me?

I got your knickers all in a knot didnt I?

Having an instance doesn't negate a single shared world. It is required because user hardware and server hardware software are not yet powerful enough to have real time twitch based combat with hundreds of players.

If an instance of a system is created, lets say that system is a trading hub like Jita, when they buy something they can buy only the goods from that were originally on the market. If one of the players in the instance puts something on the market that item is available in both instances. If an asteroid is depleted in the original system it depletes in the instance.

Its similiar to grids in EvE. If you had every player show on overview in Jita you wouldn't load so EvE chops up systems into little piece. You can consider those instances.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#533 - 2013-09-21 04:40:03 UTC
Quote:
I got your knickers all in a knot didnt I?


No, I'm just curious as to why you would bother throwing out an outright lie, then hurredly try to move on like you hadn't just embarrassed yourself. Granted, from dealing with you I have gathered that is a typical tactic for you, but still, one wonders...

Quote:
Having an instance doesn't negate a single shared world.


Yes, it does. That is the literal definition.

Do you know why WoW is not a single shard world? Even if they didn't have dozens of servers all over the place, when I go into a dungeon and do it, nothing has changed. It's still there, and there might be 200+ people in that same dungeon. I do not see them, their actions do not effect me, and mine do not effect them.

In an instanced circumstance, nothing someone does outside of the instance I am in, has any effect on me, or my actions on them.

If there are 100 people in one system, as you said yourself, then it becomes instanced. That means if I roll in there, not one damn thing I do has an effect on the people in the first instance.

Not a single shard.

Quote:
If one of the players in the instance puts something on the market that item is available in both instances. If an asteroid is depleted in the original system it depletes in the instance.


Going to take a page from Tippia's book here, and say citation needed. I follow SC, and I do not recall hearing anything of the sort.

Quote:
Its similiar to grids in EvE. If you had every player show on overview in Jita you wouldn't load so EvE chops up systems into little piece. You can consider those instances.


No, it isn't, because those grids are consistent between people visiting them, because they are all on a single shard.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#534 - 2013-09-21 05:07:07 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:


Having an instance doesn't negate a single shared world. It is required because user hardware and server hardware software are not yet powerful enough to have real time twitch based combat with hundreds of players.


Planetside managed that almost a decade ago and planetside 2 is doing this very thing today.

You also seem to be confusing keeping data on a single server with there being a single massive sever to play on. From what I have seen its only to store your info. SC is not a game like EVE, its Freelancer.
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#535 - 2013-09-21 06:09:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Omar Alharazaad
It seems not all destroyers are created equally. I'm kind of a missile guy myself, so was wondering if it's possible to get a corax or talwar to be as scary as the nightmare inducing catalysts? Not sure yet whether I'm gonna try ganking, but definitely considering loading up a dessie with festival launchers and fireworks to see if I can make a hulk spawn a new asteroid.

However, were I to wish to get serious about the violence, it comes back to the fits... are there any decent rocket/light missile destroyer fits for ganking?

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#536 - 2013-09-21 06:14:28 UTC
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
It seems not all destroyers are created equally. I'm kind of a missile guy myself, so was wondering if it's possible to get a corax or talwar to be as scary as the nightmare inducing catalysts? Not sure yet whether I'm gonna try ganking, but definitely considering loading up a dessie with festival launchers and fireworks to see if I can make a hulk spawn a new asteroid. However, were I to wish to get serious about the violence, it comes back to the fits... are there any decent rocket/light missile destroyer fits for ganking?


Depends on if you want to gank, or to have a slightly more... mutual fight.

Because a Talwar can be a scary damn ship if fitted out to kite properly.

But no, I would hesitate to say that a rocket ship would be good for ganking. Ganking is really all about applying maximum dps in the shortest amount of time.

Rockets are about kiting just inside of scram range, because they do not give a single **** about tracking.

And light missiles are all about shooting rats outside their effective range, to remain safe while doing so. (as opposed to rapid lights, which are about slaughtering player frigates)

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#537 - 2013-09-21 06:16:01 UTC
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
It seems not all destroyers are created equally. I'm kind of a missile guy myself, so was wondering if it's possible to get a corax or talwar to be as scary as the nightmare inducing catalysts? Not sure yet whether I'm gonna try ganking, but definitely considering loading up a dessie with festival launchers and fireworks to see if I can make a hulk spawn a new asteroid.

However, were I to wish to get serious about the violence, it comes back to the fits... are there any decent rocket/light missile destroyer fits for ganking?
Never seen one that would serve. RoF is just too low, even with rockets.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#538 - 2013-09-21 06:25:16 UTC
Saddening. Thanks for the input guys. With all the fuss over ganking lately it's kinda made me gank-curious. Will have to expand my horizons somewhat regarding weapons... oh well, always nice to learn how to do new things :)

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#539 - 2013-09-21 06:27:09 UTC
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
Saddening. Thanks for the input guys. With all the fuss over ganking lately it's kinda made me gank-curious. Will have to expand my horizons somewhat regarding weapons... oh well, always nice to learn how to do new things :)



Fortunately, a catalyst is ludicrously easy to train for. You could be ganking more quickly than you might imagine.

If you have missiles, it's highly likely you are Caldari anyway, so you should have some hybrid training already.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#540 - 2013-09-21 06:42:09 UTC
Oh I do have some hybrid training. I just love watching those swarms of missiles fly off and splode in the distance. It's a matter of taste, and perhaps a touch of obsession. Will have to give my gunnery skills a little love, I hate to say it but I've been seriously neglecting them. From what I've been reading it seems that it's pretty much blasters or bust.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.