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The rising price of PLEX and its consequences.
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#81 - 2011-11-01 01:09:12 UTC
Or just buy a plex? You don't need to buy a GTC and convert it. You can get them straight from the account management site.

Buy a plex, redeem it into a in game item, sell it on the market.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Apollo Gabriel
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#82 - 2011-11-01 01:53:13 UTC
If +100 m isk breaks the bank, you're doing it wrong.
Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#83 - 2011-11-01 04:05:48 UTC  |  Edited by: non judgement
I'm surprised that so many people seem to be that low on money, that the only way they can play eve, is if they manage to make enough isk in game to buy a plex. I hope they have enough spare cash to buy food as well.

How many of you guys are getting free internet from some store while sleeping in a gutter somewhere with your laptop? It's amazing how easy it is for bums to get computers these days.


I'm a bit surprised that more people aren't taking advantage of the high price of plex by buying a plex from CCP (or buying gtc and converting them to plex). It's getting close to the best time to do it. Don't think it'd stay this way for long. Even when they were up to 350m each before they went right back down to 250m, and less. This bubble will pop sooner or later.
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#84 - 2011-11-01 04:56:04 UTC
Apollo Gabriel wrote:
If +100 m isk breaks the bank, you're doing it wrong.



Its not that really as much as other expenses. Usually that extra 100 million is used to make other money.

Anyway I digress, what the big issue is it rose from 275 originally to nearly half a bill. Nothing is really regulating the price, which means, isk is becoming inflated.

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.
Apollo Gabriel
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#85 - 2011-11-01 05:09:11 UTC
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
Apollo Gabriel wrote:
If +100 m isk breaks the bank, you're doing it wrong.



Its not that really as much as other expenses. Usually that extra 100 million is used to make other money.

Anyway I digress, what the big issue is it rose from 275 originally to nearly half a bill. Nothing is really regulating the price, which means, isk is becoming inflated.



I used to manipulate the market pretty heavily, so I understand the value of liquid isk, however if you have the isk to buy plex, 100m ain't much more. If you can BARELY afford plex, you shouldn't be buying it, as with most things in Eve.

The market isn't a static system. I personally think fewer people are buying PLEX to sell on the market, coupled with a number of disgruntled people deciding NOT to pay for eve (I don't say they're right, just going with their "logic").
Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
Prince Kobol
#86 - 2011-11-01 07:55:22 UTC
For those saying that the rise in PLEX will hurt RMT's couldn't be more wrong.

If anything it helps them.

Many are under the assumption that the RMT's uses isk that is generated in game via bots to purchase PLEX, this is a false assumption.

RMT's use stolen credit card/ bank details to purchase Eve Time Codes which they then covert to PLEX to either sell or convert to isk on disposable accounts which have no traceability. (i.e an account which as been created using false details and made active with a PLEX using an false IP)

So with that they are now receiving more isk per PLEX not less.
Sellendis
The Ares project
#87 - 2011-11-01 08:40:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Sellendis
non judgement wrote:
I'm surprised that so many people seem to be that low on money, that the only way they can play eve, is if they manage to make enough isk in game to buy a plex. I hope they have enough spare cash to buy food as well.

How many of you guys are getting free internet from some store while sleeping in a gutter somewhere with your laptop? It's amazing how easy it is for bums to get computers these days.


I'm a bit surprised that more people aren't taking advantage of the high price of plex by buying a plex from CCP (or buying gtc and converting them to plex). It's getting close to the best time to do it. Don't think it'd stay this way for long. Even when they were up to 350m each before they went right back down to 250m, and less. This bubble will pop sooner or later.


They aren't low on money, they just whine couse they have nothing better to do.
375m for a plex? Ok, that's a 6-7h of missions per month, as in 30 days. Plex goes 450m? Wow, i just have to play 1-2 more hours in a month. Talking about average carebears, not marauder or something wiping missions and netting 150m+ per hour.
And that's only from mission rewards and bounty, loot/salvage/LP isn't in the numbers.
So if a hisec carebear cant play 1-2 hours more per month to earn 30 day plex, good riddance.
I play maybe an hour a day, and frankly i dont give a rats ass about plex going 100m up, i am not rich by any means, but people rather whine on forums instead of grinding for an hour or two.

Can we expect a truckload of QQ threads since Titans/SCs got nerfed, and now their value goes down...eve economy is dying...bla,bla,bla.

Bottom line is, if you cant earn 100m more per month, you shouldn't be playing this game...GTFO.
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#88 - 2011-11-01 10:08:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Lipbite
There are two more (obvious) reasons OP missed:

less people invest real money into EVE making PLEX more rare / cost more and

those who paid in $$$ before - now they are trying to burn their ISK before possible CCP bankruptcy converting ISK into game time instead of hoarding.
ZedMiner110224
Gem Concordance
#89 - 2011-11-12 19:50:23 UTC
I suspect the primary reason PLEX have been climbing is the resession.

Fewer folks that can afford to buy ISK with IRL money, but demand is flat or climbing as fewer of us can AFFORD to pay IRL money to pay for Eve.

I suspect the AUR junk has had an effect as well, but I'd guess that effect is VERY small.


ISKinflation is also likely a small issue, though CCP seems to take steps to change that every so often.



60M/hr for missioning? Mabey if you're VERY high end skilled and have one massivly KILLER setup of some sort AND get lucky on drops. 20-30M / hour is a LOT more reasonable estimate - and that IS INCLUDING LP points (which have been getting noticeably cheaper vs. ISK over the last couple years), bounties, loot, etc.



As far as it "only being 100M more" - multiply that times numer of alt accounts. For many or most of us it's a LOT more than "100M more a month", which is part of the reason I've been selling off some of my alts.



Folks that are low enough on IRL cash to need to use PLEX to pay for Eve are likely collecting food assistance, though that undoubetly varies with the country they live in.
Karn Dulake
Doomheim
#90 - 2011-11-12 20:01:30 UTC
Demon View wrote:
SilentSkills wrote:
I thought CCP has been actively seeking a viable ISK sink.

I don't see how rising PLEX prices are a bad solution to their problem.


Apart from taxes paid, PLEX sales sink no ISK. ISK is just transfered from the buyer to the seller.



Its amazing how many people have no basic understanding of economics.

Plex are worthless and have no value beyond what people are prepared to pay. People pay with pre existing in game isk, it is not magically created but transferred.
I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2011-11-12 20:07:17 UTC
Plex prices are rising because CCP keeps increasing the flow of the ISK faucets (anomolies, highsec incursions) while decreasing the size of many of the ISK sinks (they are making highsec safer.) Thus people are earning more money without the risk. Earning more and losing less.

Mudflation. Inflation.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#92 - 2011-11-12 20:10:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Gogela
This isn't hard. PLEX prices are fine and always will be. All I see here are people that don't want to pay to play eve with money and don't want to pay with isk because making isk takes too much time or whatever reason. If you don't have the isk and you don't have the cash you can't afford to play eve. It's that simple.

I've been paying with PLEX for a while now. Yah, if I could get PLEX for 10 isk or something I'd probably sub out for 100 years... and if PLEX gets over about 700 mil I'll go back to paying for my subscription with real money... but if PLEX does go up that high it's fine. This game isn't free... and CCP can't pay for servers and developers with space dollars.

The market is fine and working properly. You complainers just need to do a real world assessment of what your time is worth. For me... if I had to grind in EvE for 3 hours a month to pay for my sub it wouldn't be worth it... I may as well spend an hour at my office working instead.

Feature working as intended.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Karn Dulake
Doomheim
#93 - 2011-11-12 20:14:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Karn Dulake
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Plex prices are rising because CCP keeps increasing the flow of the ISK faucets (anomolies, highsec incursions) while decreasing the size of many of the ISK sinks (they are making highsec safer.) Thus people are earning more money without the risk. Earning more and losing less.

Mudflation. Inflation.



This is also incorrect. It does not matter how much isk is in a closed system its all about flow.

If no one is spending then prices remain static

The wealth is normally concentrated into the hands of the few not the majority.

Highsec Incursions have been well balanced with LP payments to use up


The main reason is that more people are paying through plex. I know a lot of people who stopped paying with cash a few months ago do to the bad CCP decisions and were looking to quit but were burning through there isk reserves to see if anything changed. That is the main reason and has nothing to do with inflation.


That and the standard market boys running up costs trying to make isk on the deal
I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion.
Blood Fart
Rock Hard Productions
#94 - 2011-11-12 20:44:20 UTC
Jennifer Starling wrote:
When prices rise there's one or two reasons:
1. More demand
2. Less supply

ad 1) more demand may be caused by:
- people earning less RL money because of the economical crises and wanting to pay with ISk instead of RL cash;
- people getting more ISK in-game because they find ways to earn more ISK/hour;
- people spending less ISK than before so they have a surplus;

ad 2) less supply may be caused by:
- less people buying plex because they have less RL money;
- NEX items may cause plexes to be removed from the market;

and so on.



OR...

Market manipulation by CCP because of too high of an "old plex" supply and not enough paying subs. When you buy a plex they get the money for a voucher to be used in the future. That money is already collected, reported and spent.

#1 CCP Buys up and destroys plex which cause prices to spike
#2 CCP offers bulk sale prices on plex
#3 Players that use them either grind out more money for shiny stuff and a plex or re-sub to keep their isk for shiny stuff without the grindage

Any legal issues with doing this is probably insanely hard to prove if it's illegal at all. Nice idea it's just as old as dirt and probably won't work considering all factors.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#95 - 2011-11-12 20:56:33 UTC
Blood Fart wrote:

OR...

Market manipulation by CCP because of too high of an "old plex" supply and not enough paying subs. When you buy a plex they get the money for a voucher to be used in the future. That money is already collected, reported and spent.

#1 CCP Buys up and destroys plex which cause prices to spike
#2 CCP offers bulk sale prices on plex
#3 Players that use them either grind out more money for shiny stuff and a plex or re-sub to keep their isk for shiny stuff without the grindage

Any legal issues with doing this is probably insanely hard to prove if it's illegal at all. Nice idea it's just as old as dirt and probably won't work considering all factors.


There is NO WAY CCP is doing this. None.

As we have seen, there are more leaks at CCP than there are in my Jeep's radiator... and my radiator has a LOT of leaks.

If word of that got out they would be DONE as a company. I mean... forget ever publishing a game again done.

Take off your tin foil hat. It attracts mind control beams from space aliens.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
zama118
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2011-11-12 21:19:48 UTC
ok
now i played the game when there where no PLEX you could buy for isk
back then no one could "play to play some more" we all had to "pay to play"
now i been one of the people to take advantage of the fact of the amount of money i make (due to the fact i make a lot of money after playing the game for so long)

so this complaining makes no sense to me. as the prices are only rising due to player greed (which is a common factor in EVE).
unless CCP are buying up the stock themselves (which would be a stupid mistake (due to resent events) and would leak out if it was happening)

so IMO i say if the prices get too bad best thing CCP could do is remove them from the game computily and reimburse every player who buys them with there choice of ISK or cash-back. now that is not going to happen... but all im really saying is there is very very very little anyone can do about it (CCP can lower the price of PLEX and game time but that is counter productive as prices will not drop over night and lower game time costs are going to make a mess of lots of things (inc game prices)

its kinda very much the same to our current world crisis, in which the gap between poor and rich is only going to get larger (hell remotely you could also associate this problem with the amount of money people are getting in the real world people want there money to go far and that inc. how it is used in a game)

so my summery is

tough luck
get over it

or

everyone has to change they way they think and how they act (which is not going to happen because i mean the real person in the real world not just how they play EVE)
Martyr Theos
The NecroMonger Faith
#97 - 2011-11-12 21:32:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Martyr Theos
Plex prices are rising for two reasons.

1) Long time players that have cancelled their subscriptions are extending their game time by purchasing PLEX with isk from their game wallets. This has increased the demand for PLEX and thus increased price.

2) Long time players that have cancelled their subscriptions no longer buy PLEX with RL cash to sell PLEX for isk on the game market. This reduced PLEX supply on the market and thus increased PLEX price.

This will continue until the winter update is appraised by these players.... at which time the number of subscribers will either increase or plummet to new lows depending on update outcome.

My guess is "The Big Flush" is coming since I don't see CCP demonstrating any effort to correct what is killing this game.
Both my brother and I have put our acounts on PLEX until our isk runs out and then we will be gone after 6 years of subbing by cash.

This game was a lot more fun years ago when we didn't understand the level of meta-gaming-cheating that was going on.
The only way to compete in Eve today is to engage in the same sort of behavior... so why play?
Karn Dulake
Doomheim
#98 - 2011-11-12 22:23:20 UTC
Martyr Theos wrote:
Plex prices are rising for two reasons.

1) Long time players that have cancelled their subscriptions are extending their game time by purchasing PLEX with isk from their game wallets. This has increased the demamnd for PLEX and thus increased price.

2) Long time players that have cancelled their subscriptions no longer buy PLEX with RL cash to sell PLEX for isk on the game market. This reduced PLEX supply on the market and thus increased PLEX price.

This will continue until the winter update is appraised by these players.... at which time the number of subscribers will either increase or plummet to new lows depending on update outcome.

My guess is "The Big Flush" is coming since I don't see CCP demonstrating any effort to correct what is killing this game.
Both my brother and I have put our acounts on PLEX until our isk runs out and then we will be gone after 6 years of subbing by cash.

This game was a lot more fun years ago when we didn't understand the level of meta-gaming-cheating that was going on.
The only way to compete in Eve today is to engage in the same sort of behavior... so why play?



Quoted for truth and my position as well.

Im sick of more isk in game and all that horseshit from people who have no idea what they are talking about
I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#99 - 2011-11-12 22:36:32 UTC
Karn Dulake wrote:
This is also incorrect. It does not matter how much isk is in a closed system its all about flow.

EVE's economy is NOT a closed system. Which is why the game has ISK faucets and ISK sinks (where ISK magically appears into and magically disappears from the system.)

CCP has started opening up the faucets wide, while not simultaneously increasing the drainage.
Tear Miner
Doomheim
#100 - 2011-11-13 00:48:11 UTC
Occupy Jita! We must end this madness now.

The 1% are inflating prices for their own benefit!