EVE General Discussion

In a way, there's something contradictory between the concept of a sandbox and the concept of a game. A game implies rules, winning and losing, competition. A sandbox implies freedom (to create and destroy).

The concept of the sandbox fits more with the "simulation" element of an MMORPG, the virtual world. But you can't really get a proper simulation going in an anonymous context (no trackable identity, no responsibility); an anonymous context however is quite suitable for the "game" side of an MMORPG.

I guess what I'm saying is that there's always going to be a tension between these two aspects of an MMORPG.

If there weren't some sort of simulation/virtual world element, it would just be an instant-action PvP game. If there weren't any game element (competition, combat, etc.) it would be more like Second Life - a true sandbox, but not much of a game, not exactly an adrenaline pumping experience.

But, because there's no trackable identity and no responsibility, there would be no background for the game if there weren't already some established "lore", some sense of being in a virtual place. What I mean is, theoretically all that could be built from the ground up by the players in a true sandbox, but that could never happen in an situation of internet anonymity (too many folks willing to destroy for lulz). So the devs have to include some elements of "themepark" in even a hardcore sandbox MMO, just to get the whole thing off the ground, to give some background context, something to sandbox off of, so to speak.

Really, no MMORPG can be wholly themepark or wholly sandbox. They can't be wholly sandbox for the reasons I've described above; but they can't be wholly themepark either, because that would give no sense of there being a persistent, virtual world, it literally would just be a series of rides, with no room for players to create their own content at all. But even in WoW, people do create their own content to some extent, on the side, as it were.

It's really just a qestion of emphasis, and it's probably always a matter of fine judgement on the part of the devs and players, how far they want to go one way or another.

But there's also the problem that any sandbox MMO will gradually have to theme-parkify as time goes on. This is because the hardcore players who kick start the popularity of the game aren't really enough to go round - there aren't enough people into that sort of gameplay. Whereas there are (as WoW has proved) potentially huge numbers of people who want the more relaxing thempark kind of gameplay. As the hardcore achievers will eventually get bored with the game and leave, and as the game has already exploited them just as much as it can, the devs have to look further afield, to themepark-wanters, to try and keep subscriptions up.

Or to put it another way, EVE has gradually increased its subscription base as it has gradually introduced more theme-parky elements. This is surely indisputable?

In a way it's a bit sad, but then in a way it would be unrealistic to expect anything else. EVE has had a damn good run as an almost-pure sandbox game; and the amount of themeparkification needed to keep it going probably isn't going to remove the sandboxiness altogether (since the basic design of the game wouldn't allow it). It probably still has a long life left, albeit with a bit more themparkification as it goes along.

Well... If the players in high-sec knew how to actually PvP it would be a risk (and use directional scanner, and common sense). Instead of changing the game maybe the players should learn how to play it. Eve is suppose to be a harsh universe. That is in the concept and has always been(!!!!!!!!!!!). Don't try to change that. Whining carebears has already changed to much of this game.


:cryingvet:

(And Eve is sandbox, but not sandbox.. Okey?)