EVE General Discussion

I disagree with you. I see that may have been your experience (and others). That does not mean it will be everyone's experience if they end up in the right place. But telling someone there is nothing out there for you is misleading them. There is a lot out in Null.

My, and my friend's, experience was quite different. I got to do what I wanted, and I joined in fleets at times when needed - but it was always my choice. I was never told what to do and never conscripted. I earned quite a bit of isk and had fun doing it.

I do suggest that you let people know about the possibility of what you say happening, because it is quite likely with certain alliances. But it is not the only thing that can happen to you down there.

Null sec access is a CCP problem.... they design the map with small number of system for acces and easy lock by gankers....

Now null sec without sovereignty can be acces easily for small gang corporation... just come in region like syndicate/great wildlands/Outer rings, find a dead end and put your pos and try to survive.

Null with sovereignty need a good logistic and a small corporation cant assume it.....

This is what the OP amounts to. It would be like me saying "why do I need 4 other people to lay a basket ball game against a 5 man team?

Null sec is organized group space. So are high level wormholes. THE REST of EVE-space is solo, small group space. No sorry, you can't have everyhting your way OP, this is not burger king.

Exactly. Unlike in highsec, in null there is competition for that money making process.

Unlikes L4s. No matter how many L4s I do in the same region of space in one day, someone can log on and there will still be L4s for him. Unlike anoms or null roids. Mining, in general, suffers from this actually. (L4s primary cause of inflation, as income outpaces production because of unlimited supply of income?)

Oh, and as for the person who said this nonsense:



No. It can't be done. Do you know how I can be completely sure the answer is no? This is going to sound ********, but it's because Goonswarm doesn't do it. Their finance guys would be envied by some Fortune 500 companies for crying out loud. If there was a way to squeeze any more efficiency out of their setup, they'd be doing it.

Now, here is the why. "Industry" only corps can only exist with the threat of CONCORD behind them. Their ships and their pilots are by and large helpless by the standards of nullsec.

So, let us suppose that a nullsec alliance has a choice between a 10 man corp of PvP players (line members) and PvE players (indy/miners/whatever), fair enough? Yes, a 10 man corp of any kind is unlikely to be accepted as a matter of course, but lets use small numbers for ease of use.

So, a nullsec alliance that is not presently at war has a few options to make money with those guys.

For the line member corp, you can have them send their alts to go mission or incursion, or hell, even mine in highsec. There is a very small chance of them being interfered with if you have them stay in NPC corps. The line members really don't have to log on except to defend their space, screw with pubbies, and set their skillqueue.

Now imagine that you have the indy corp hanging out in the same part of space. They are online a hell of a lot more than the line members are. Heck, it's highly likely they are online more than the line members highsec alts.

The differences are that they indy guys need to be defended against anyone who comes into their system. If they cannot be, then they need to go hide because damn near any non frigate ship you bring into nullsec can kill them, setting you back hundreds of millions of isk. Oh, yeah, and nevermind the fact that once word gets out that you have indy in the area, the crows will descend to get their killmails.

So you have a few possibilities to work out. Either you can setup the indy guys in a cul-de-sac behind a 24/7 gatecamp, you can guard them, or you can have their industrial time cut significantly if there is anyone is system. (and if it is an afk cloaker, it significantly might mean 90% unless you guard them)

Any other scenario just leads to them being made into killmails for someone else.

The major issue with that is that 2/3 of those scenarios require you to dedicate line members to their defense. So lets say that you need about 5 people for that gatecamp or to guard them, ok? (which is generous, the number is actually 10 because it has to be a huge chunk of the timezone)

That means that unless nullsec industry, done over less time, with less manufacturing slots (which therefore means a cap on their total production) is more than 50% efficient compared to highsec, you are completely wasting your time and the alliance's time.

Which is not even remotely imaginable. That's why the serious alliances won't bother with it. Because it is not only less of a headache to just ship everything in via jump freighter, but JFs also more cost effective. It's literally better to just have a corp full of line members doing unlimited L4s and buying everything instead.

And that's why all the problems people bemoan about nullsec exist. That's why a lot of potential playstyles are squelched.

Because highsec is OP.

Because EVE is overpopulated: travel scheme and present territories were designed when EVE had 3-10 times less population, now CCP management is too scared of another Monoclegeddon possibility to change anything.

Or they can just let members jump stuff down from hisec using basic cooperation exchanges and the market, thereby avoiding all the contractual nonsense with some indy guys who want to operate in nullsec at a loss and with extra hassle for no apparent reason...like every non-terrible nullsec alliance does.

Exactly, because it's generally pointless to bother to do otherwise, not because of some imaginary bias against indy players as a type of player.

I do believe outposts are slated for review soon. I'm also not saying that you're not right.

There are dichotomies, gaps in the machine that have to be resolved:
1: Nulsec isn't good for industrialists despite the vast, untapped resources because it's too easy to ship from highsec
2: Small corps can't become large because of massive security gaps in the management console
3: Highsec is too cheap

Possible solutions:
1. (Hears the screams before the words are typed) Delete jump freighters, or bar them from jumping into lowsec. (hears the cheers of lowsec pirates)
2. Expand manufacturing capacities of POS's and Outposts (the latter is already slated, I believe)
3. Overhaul the corporation management console for higher granularity in determining who has access to what so R&D and builder corps can employ more than four people.
4. Increase the hourly rates of NPC research and manufacturing jobs to be in-line with POS operating costs.
5. Offline highsec POS's whos corps no longer meet the standings requirement for operation.

Making nullsec better isn't the only option. Jump freighters are fine, btw. Nerfing them would be both nonsensical and enrage a large part of the playerbase.

Nullsec is in a fair state of balance with almost every other part of space. Except highsec. Ditto npc nullsec and wormholes. Lowsec still needs some love.

Highsec towers over them all. It has to be nerfed for any balance to be had. And not even nerfed, really, so much as have it's risk vs reward be brought back into balance. Meaning... it doesn't have the risk that is supposed to have, thanks to dec-dodging. If wardecs actually had some teeth, highsec could be balanced, which means everything else could be balanced too.

Nullsec, on the other hand, doesn't need straight up buffs as much as it needs quality of life changes. What those are, and how far they should go, is up for debate.

If you remove JFs people will just use nullsec even less, not worker harder to live there.