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An Issue Of Transparency.

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Isis Dea
Society of Adrift Hope
#21 - 2013-09-13 18:44:43 UTC
Tron 3K wrote:
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
Spy 21 wrote:
Insanity = Doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.


And promises by the company to do something, and then two years later not doing those things, and instead giving illegible answers mumbled from the corner of their mouths...i.e. spin...is certainly not standing by their words.

The nature of promises is that they remain immune to change.

Questions have been asked, and silence is what we have been receiving. Not only silence from CCP's end, but the silencing of our concerns. That is not a conviction of transparency.

The Devs don't have to tell you ****.. How bout instead of waiting for whats going to happen with the game just play the damn thing?


Biomass yourself please. Big smile

Or just go back to WoW.

This is EVE, our relationship is closer to our GMs/Devs/ISD officials than any other MMO and it's shaped EVE into the amazing universe it has become.

If you don't like the course of history in this game's making and how it's built (which does feature the occasional public outcry, similar to what's witnessed in the forums recently), please, just leave.

There's plenty of better places I'm sure where you can go wait patiently for your favorite stuff to come out and for the devs to read your mind ahead of time over.

More Character Customization :: Especially compared to what we had in 2003...
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#22 - 2013-09-13 18:44:47 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
Spy 21 wrote:
Insanity = Doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.


And promises by the company to do something, and then two years later not doing those things, and instead giving illegible answers mumbled from the corner of their mouths...i.e. spin...is certainly not standing by their words.

The nature of promises is that they remain immune to change.

Questions have been asked, and silence is what we have been receiving. Not only silence from CCP's end, but the silencing of our concerns. That is not a conviction of transparency.

Precisely what promises were made that they have broken? A source would be nice. Smile


OP.

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#23 - 2013-09-13 18:46:45 UTC
Tron 3K wrote:

The Devs don't have to tell you ****.. How bout instead of waiting for whats going to happen with the game just play the damn thing?



Indeed.

There is nothing in the EULA saying they have to tell us anything about anything at all.

They are not even required to listen to a thing the CSM says. At all.

I think people forget that ultimately this is a business running a game. That's all.

These are not issues requiring transparency ala national security issues (of which there is zero transparency indeed).

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#24 - 2013-09-13 18:47:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
Spy 21 wrote:
Insanity = Doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.


And promises by the company to do something, and then two years later not doing those things, and instead giving illegible answers mumbled from the corner of their mouths...i.e. spin...is certainly not standing by their words.

The nature of promises is that they remain immune to change.

Questions have been asked, and silence is what we have been receiving. Not only silence from CCP's end, but the silencing of our concerns. That is not a conviction of transparency.

Precisely what promises were made that they have broken? A source would be nice. Smile


OP.

Tells me nothing.

Perhaps you're trying to ask for more transparency? Just guessing here.

We are literally drowning in information about what is being worked on and why, which is a welcome change from the past.

What, precisely, is it you want to know?

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#25 - 2013-09-13 18:49:00 UTC
Isis Dea wrote:

Or just go back to WoW.

This is EVE, our relationship is closer to our GMs/Devs/ISD officials than any other MMO and it's shaped EVE into the amazing universe it has become.

If you don't like the course of history in this game's making and how it's built (which does feature the occasional public outcry, similar to what's witnessed in the forums recently), please, just leave.

There's plenty of better places I'm sure where you can go wait patiently for your favorite stuff to come out and for the devs to read your mind ahead of time over.



This is not a very democratic way to handle those with dissenting opinions. Thank goodness we don't kick out everyone from America who disagrees with policy.

BUT THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT GAME........... ya know. Roll

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#26 - 2013-09-13 18:51:18 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Tron 3K wrote:

The Devs don't have to tell you ****.. How bout instead of waiting for whats going to happen with the game just play the damn thing?



Indeed.

There is nothing in the EULA saying they have to tell us anything about anything at all.

They are not even required to listen to a thing the CSM says. At all.

I think people forget that ultimately this is a business running a game. That's all.

These are not issues requiring transparency ala national security issues (of which there is zero transparency indeed).


So in other words, what you are saying, is that the CEO of a company should not be held accountable for things that he said to the community as a whole? That sir, is bad business. It destroys the customers trust.

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
Tron 3K
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-09-13 18:52:02 UTC
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
Tron 3K wrote:
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
Spy 21 wrote:
Insanity = Doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.


And promises by the company to do something, and then two years later not doing those things, and instead giving illegible answers mumbled from the corner of their mouths...i.e. spin...is certainly not standing by their words.

The nature of promises is that they remain immune to change.

Questions have been asked, and silence is what we have been receiving. Not only silence from CCP's end, but the silencing of our concerns. That is not a conviction of transparency.

The Devs don't have to tell you ****.. How bout instead of waiting for whats going to happen with the game just play the damn thing?


Do play it dum-dum, every day. But I would still like to see concerns to be addressed so that I know whether or not this is something I would like to continue putting money and time into. I was not the one who addressed the community, and promised transparency. No, that would be Hilmar, the CEO. So try again.

Don't ever get a girlfriend dude.. You will never be happy.. Or you'll make her miserable with your constantly badgering her.. What are we, are we together, what do you think we are, please tell me I need to know... etc.
Isis Dea
Society of Adrift Hope
#28 - 2013-09-13 18:52:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Isis Dea
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Isis Dea wrote:

Or just go back to WoW.

This is EVE, our relationship is closer to our GMs/Devs/ISD officials than any other MMO and it's shaped EVE into the amazing universe it has become.

If you don't like the course of history in this game's making and how it's built (which does feature the occasional public outcry, similar to what's witnessed in the forums recently), please, just leave.

There's plenty of better places I'm sure where you can go wait patiently for your favorite stuff to come out and for the devs to read your mind ahead of time over.



This is not a very democratic way to handle those with dissenting opinions. Thank goodness we don't kick out everyone from America who disagrees with policy.

BUT THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT GAME........... ya know. Roll


*points fingers to the post the reply was toward*

His wasn't very democratic either. Ugh

More Character Customization :: Especially compared to what we had in 2003...
Tron 3K
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-09-13 18:55:42 UTC
Isis Dea wrote:
Tron 3K wrote:
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
Spy 21 wrote:
Insanity = Doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.


And promises by the company to do something, and then two years later not doing those things, and instead giving illegible answers mumbled from the corner of their mouths...i.e. spin...is certainly not standing by their words.

The nature of promises is that they remain immune to change.

Questions have been asked, and silence is what we have been receiving. Not only silence from CCP's end, but the silencing of our concerns. That is not a conviction of transparency.

The Devs don't have to tell you ****.. How bout instead of waiting for whats going to happen with the game just play the damn thing?


Biomass yourself please. Big smile

Or just go back to WoW.

This is EVE, our relationship is closer to our GMs/Devs/ISD officials than any other MMO and it's shaped EVE into the amazing universe it has become.

If you don't like the course of history in this game's making and how it's built (which does feature the occasional public outcry, similar to what's witnessed in the forums recently), please, just leave.

There's plenty of better places I'm sure where you can go wait patiently for your favorite stuff to come out and for the devs to read your mind ahead of time over.

No I'd rather play the game then ***** and complain because I don't know every second of the day when the Dev's take a ****. The rest doesn't make sense to me and not sure why I was quoted.. I unlike the rest play the game to have fun. if it changes or I see changes that might hurt the game then I can see the outcry.. or the whine fest some of you do..
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#30 - 2013-09-13 18:55:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Tron 3K wrote:

The Devs don't have to tell you ****.. How bout instead of waiting for whats going to happen with the game just play the damn thing?



Indeed.

There is nothing in the EULA saying they have to tell us anything about anything at all.

They are not even required to listen to a thing the CSM says. At all.

I think people forget that ultimately this is a business running a game. That's all.

These are not issues requiring transparency ala national security issues (of which there is zero transparency indeed).


So in other words, what you are saying, is that the CEO of a company should not be held accountable for things that he said to the community as a whole? That sir, is bad business. It destroys the customers trust.

He promised more transparency where possible.

We have more knowledge about what is being worked on, and why, and by whom than ever before.... far more than any other gaming community has for that matter.

Again... try to put it into coherent words... what is it you want to know?

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#31 - 2013-09-13 18:57:28 UTC
Tron 3K wrote:

Don't ever get a girlfriend dude.. You will never be happy.. Or you'll make her miserable with your constantly badgering her.. What are we, are we together, what do you think we are, please tell me I need to know... etc.


Happily married for several years, and ironically, these are not only my concerns, but hers as well, since she plays. Also have two kids, so I am used to dealing with attitudes like yours. Not that any of that is your concern.

Stay on topic, thanks.

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#32 - 2013-09-13 18:58:37 UTC
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
Tron 3K wrote:

Don't ever get a girlfriend dude.. You will never be happy.. Or you'll make her miserable with your constantly badgering her.. What are we, are we together, what do you think we are, please tell me I need to know... etc.


Happily married for several years, and ironically, these are not only my concerns, but hers as well, since she plays. Also have two kids, so I am used to dealing with attitudes like yours. Not that any of that is your concern.

Stay on topic, thanks.

To do that we actually need a topic to stick too.

Again... what is it you want to know?

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#33 - 2013-09-13 18:59:55 UTC
"crickets"

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#34 - 2013-09-13 19:00:15 UTC
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:


So in other words, what you are saying, is that the CEO of a company should not be held accountable for things that he said to the community as a whole? That sir, is bad business. It destroys the customers trust.



The TOS clarification was announced......then announced again.

IT does not get any more transparent than that.

People are just butthurt over the nature of what needed clarification.

Real and very butthurt.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Drax Concrilla
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2013-09-13 19:00:32 UTC
Not going on this ride again, but the large amount of locked threads does raise an eyebrow.
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#36 - 2013-09-13 19:02:43 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:


Again... try to put it into coherent words... what is it you want to know?


I would like to know why the meta is being attacked via the TOS changes.

I would like to know if our future is a future outlined in the "Greed is Good" corporate documents that came to light during Incarna.

I would like to know if there is going to be any meaningful content released in the future, or if we can continue to expect endless rebalance.

These things do not just affect me, but those who have held this game up over the course of ten years. And I would like answers that are not intentionally vague. This is what transparency entails.

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#37 - 2013-09-13 19:02:50 UTC
Drax Concrilla wrote:
Not going on this ride again, but the large amount of locked threads does raise an eyebrow.



They are locked for being duplicate.

This has always been policy, and nothing 'eyebrow raising' at all.

I find the entire thing both terribly sad and hilarious.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Tron 3K
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#38 - 2013-09-13 19:03:52 UTC
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
Tron 3K wrote:

Don't ever get a girlfriend dude.. You will never be happy.. Or you'll make her miserable with your constantly badgering her.. What are we, are we together, what do you think we are, please tell me I need to know... etc.


Happily married for several years, and ironically, these are not only my concerns, but hers as well, since she plays. Also have two kids, so I am used to dealing with attitudes like yours. Not that any of that is your concern.

Stay on topic, thanks.


So you both just settled? congrats.. and ****... why procreate more stupidity into this world?!
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#39 - 2013-09-13 19:04:35 UTC
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:


I would like to know why the meta is being attacked via the TOS changes.



The 'meta' was obviously getting out of hand.

But calling a 'clarification' a 'change' is your first mistake.

I'll leave others to the rest.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Tron 3K
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#40 - 2013-09-13 19:05:02 UTC
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:


Again... try to put it into coherent words... what is it you want to know?


I would like to know why the meta is being attacked via the TOS changes.

I would like to know if our future is a future outlined in the "Greed is Good" corporate documents that came to light during Incarna.

I would like to know if there is going to be any meaningful content released in the future, or if we can continue to expect endless rebalance.

These things do not just affect me, but those who have held this game up over the course of ten years. And I would like answers that are not intentionally vague. This is what transparency entails.

If you read the GM forum post you'd know "NOTHING" that means 0 things have changed.. They are just rewording it because of legal matters I'm guessing due to something that I would know nothing about..