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"You don't quote much Scripture..."

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Author
Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#21 - 2013-09-14 15:42:39 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:
Slaver here represents the Sabik faith no more than Baracca is representing the majority Imperial point of view.

Slaver playing the role of mouth-frothing idiocy and Baracca playing more of the spineless apologist.

I do worry for my Brothers and Sisters more and more of late.





Well, as I've said before, it's very difficult for outsiders to know the majority Imperial point of view. In fact, the only reason I haven't said I represent the majority Imperial point of view is that no one really knows whether I do or don't. The Amarr Empire is a huge piece of space, and even our reputedly ubiquitous culture actually experiences quite a bit of variation. Since it isn't necessarily important how we all feel about certain things the way it does with the Gallente, there are fewer mechanisms in place to gauge public opinion. Obviously, Jamyl doesn't need to do anything popular. It is her responsibility to do what is right.

That said, we do have some indication of how the public at large thinks. It's largely a generational divide as to how they tend to view the Minmatar Republic, slavery, and consequently the Empress. I suppose the House of Baracca has always been a rather good place for slaves to land and I am relatively young compared to others in my ecclesiastical family, so my opinion cannot be necessarily compared to a veldspar miner who just doesn't trust that newfangled drone technology to fill the gaps between slaves if he releases them.

What I can say is that most of the people who learned alongside me learned that we are not above the judgement of God, and that we needed to see events that had happened as a sign of his displeasure. It seems to be a very common theme across the Empire at the moment, from my experience. Especially the clergy have taken it as a sign that we had forgotten our Scriptural duties and become no better than anyone else in the cluster.

Unlike anyone else in the cluster, "no better" is not an option for us. God chose our people and expects us to act accordingly. "Because you did it, I can do it" is outright heresy, because we are meant to be the best people in the universe. Some saw that more as a birthright than a responsibility.

That said, if I sound like an apologist, it isn't my intention. The Matari people were conquered with fairly obvious assistance from God, so I can't say, in good faith, that I don't think it should have happened. The problem seems to be in the intervening time, when we failed in our duties. Perhaps it is worth apologizing to the Minmatar for that, though it wouldn't seem they feel essentially wronged by our failure to make them Amarr.

It is God who truly deserves an apology, and our apology to him may take centuries or millenia. He delivered his greatest test to the Reclamation in all of history. We failed the test. We failed not because we lacked resources or opportunity or knowledge, but because we simply didn't care enough. We should have done as the Scriptures commanded, not used the Matari as an asset to make our lives easier.

Our lives as God's chosen are not supposed to be easy. God did not put us here to grow fat and lazy on the backs of others. The fact that we did even though we knew better is a wake up call. People must learn from the mistakes of their fathers, or they will absolutely repeat them.

And to learn from mistakes, you need to be able to see your culture objectively. You need to accept that you made a mistake and rectify it. The Amarr Empire is slowly understanding its mistakes and working to bring ourselves back to the eternal wisdom of the Scriptures.

To spend life blaming everyone but yourself is the very definition of hubris, especially when it is your responsibility. If my people ever suggest otherwise, then that would be something to apologize for.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Nicoletta Mithra
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#22 - 2013-09-14 16:11:18 UTC
Cpt. Baracca,

just let Ms Vitalia spew her bile, she's not sister to any faithful Amarr, she's an heretic and traitor to God's covenant with the Amarr. She never understood the error in the proposition that "might makes right" and probably never will and I fear all your words are lost on her.

Those of sound mind will recognize the truth in your words.

Faithfully,
N. Mithra
Slaver Filth
Council of Apostles
#23 - 2013-09-14 16:26:46 UTC
Constantin Baracca wrote:


I appreciate your defense, Eran, but you are quite right. I highly doubt that arguing with him would be productive. He did not come to learn or ask questions. He came to speak, which is certainly his right. I simply don't think that a man who took that amount of time to insult me, you, the Empire, and the faith is here to honesty join the discussion on any level. It is better to allow him to vent whatever anger he feels towards us or to let his bait sit in the water until he grows bored.

Sometimes, the vitriol of a man's arguments will defend his targets without requiring us to say another word.
Your pathetic sniveling demonstrates your lack of spine, only the broken spirited little slave boy with the girlie sounding name, make of that what you will, spoke in your defense, and you had not the strength of your convictions to directly engage me.

As is often the case with those who give only vigorous lip service to the faith, your lack of understanding of it's harsh but required discipline, is exemplified by your inability to "let his bait sit in the water until he grows bored."

Quote:
The cowards mantra mumbled in his quaking fear when standing in the light of his superior, a pure Amarr, is an ineffective self delusion of the weak of spirit and mind.
another bit of "Scripture" this windbag clergyman is loathe to quote because it demonstrates his theological inadequacies.

"Child of Amarr seek not warmth in our cold hearts, we are the old serpent of New Eden and you must do your part, revel in our viciousness, we rule by venom and our strike is merciless, "

Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#24 - 2013-09-14 16:43:10 UTC
Nicoletta Mithra wrote:
Cpt. Baracca,

just let Ms Vitalia spew her bile, she's not sister to any faithful Amarr, she's an heretic and traitor to God's covenant with the Amarr. She never understood the error in the proposition that "might makes right" and probably never will and I fear all your words are lost on her.

Those of sound mind will recognize the truth in your words.

Faithfully,
N. Mithra


Oh, it's no trouble, Nicoletta, though I completely understand and appreciate your concern. I don't feel I should so immediately judge Silas given my vocation and duty. It is my job, and in fact my joyous pastime, to preach the Word to those who do not know it. I daresay I've preached to people much more vitriolic than her, and I don't mind correcting misconceptions about my ministry. The truth is that I can understand how she feels. I certainly don't agree with her, but I do understand where she is coming from. Whereas "Slaver Filth" is not here to articulate any points or engage in any meaningful conversations, I don't necessarily think she meant her comments in the same spirit.

In essence, it is the law's job to think of heretics as criminals to be punished, as they have been trained and as they should. I see them as opportunities, as I have been trained and as I should. If she has questions for me, I should have answers.

In the long run, you may certainly be right that she may never understand my ministry or the full love of God I feel, but I do not think words spoken in the spirit of fellowship and communion are ever wasted. At the very least, if she carries as much or more anger with me and the faith in her heart, she will live knowing I do not share it with her. So it is to those who rage against the might of mountains rather than seeing the glory of the ascent. Others will read our words and know the love of fellowship.

That's the worst case scenario. Being blown off because she thinks I'm full of it is a much more common reaction and a much more preferable reaction.

I suppose what I am saying is that I completely understand your frustration. Being told how horrible you are for things you haven't done or that they do not necessarily understand is the sort of thing that has driven empires to war for all of human history. Whereas some react with anger to the anger of others, and the strong react with indifference, I have been taught to react with open arms. If someone needs an Amarrian to truly hate for what they perceive of our culture or their lives, let it be me.

On the other hand, think of the rewards for all of us involved when just one of us chooses to listen and understand instead.

One person who feels even a flicker of God's love enter their soul is worth a thousand people calling me names.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Slaver Filth
Council of Apostles
#25 - 2013-09-14 17:10:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Slaver Filth
Constantin Baracca wrote:
Whereas "Slaver Filth" is not here to articulate any points or engage in any meaningful conversations,
You so dutifully perform your role as a forum "Fedo" the stench of them hangs about you.

Pure True Amarr have nothing to apologize about and we suffer the weak poorly, I will make a point to withhold the daily dose of Vitoc from the members of the low class Baracca family I own, their anguish, their suffering shall be punishment for sharing your impure bloodline. After enduring hours of this misery they'll be granted my benevolent reprieve and happily return to scrubbing fecal matter in my slaver hound pens, the only work they are biologically and intellectually fit to perform, after all Baracca family members are not known for their brains, only their strong backs and wagging tongues, both of which they put to good use cleaning the hound's pens.

"Child of Amarr seek not warmth in our cold hearts, we are the old serpent of New Eden and you must do your part, revel in our viciousness, we rule by venom and our strike is merciless, "

Nicoletta Mithra
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#26 - 2013-09-15 01:21:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicoletta Mithra
Words are wasted on those that don't have ears to hear and lack reason to understand. Neither Ms. Vitalia, nor Mr. Filth are here to engage in meaningful conversation. That doesn't mean I think you waste your words, there may be others who have ears to listen, eyes to read and minds that are capable of reasoning to understand.

The two, though, cultivated their inability to understand. This is not about frustration on my part, but simply about economy in communication: Time spent reacting to them is better spent elsewhere and if it is merely in silent contemplation of the Lord's mysteries.
Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#27 - 2013-09-15 01:34:13 UTC
Nicoletta Mithra wrote:
Words are wasted on those that don't have ears to hear and lack reason to understand. Neither Ms. Vitalia, nor Mr. Filth are here to engage in meaningful conversation. That doesn't mean I think you waste your words, there may be others who have ears to listen, eyes to read and minds that are capable of reasoning to understand.

The two I spoke of above cultivated their inability for understanding, though. This is not about frustration on my part, but simply about economy in communication: Time spent reacting to them is better spent elsewhere and if it is merely in silent contemplation of the Lord's mysteries.


Well, there is a difference. Silas seems genuinely angry, but does seem like a real person. I can believe that she dislikes the Amarrian Empire as a whole for the past and her current treatment. It isn't every day we reach out to try to heal rifts and bring the Word of the Lord into her.

"Slaver Filth", on the other hand, is almost certainly a fake meant to derail the thread. Especially considering what he said about my family. As anyone who had heard my last name before would know, the Baracca family keeps a detailed record of our family tree spanning back to Palius Baracca over two thousand years ago. There are presently a little more than a thousand members, none of them presently enslaved. In fact, over nine hundred are clergy. I grew up in a loving family with a life of luxury.

So while Silas may have an actual opinion, I simply assume Slaver is attempting to get a rise out of us.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#28 - 2013-09-15 09:58:04 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:
Slaver here represents the Sabik faith no more than Baracca is representing the majority Imperial point of view.






A bit like you then

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Slaver Filth
Council of Apostles
#29 - 2013-09-15 10:30:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Slaver Filth
Constantin Baracca wrote:


"Slaver Filth", on the other hand, is almost certainly a fake meant to derail the thread. Especially considering what he said about my family. As anyone who had heard my last name before would know, the Baracca family keeps a detailed record of our family tree spanning back to Palius Baracca over two thousand years ago. There are presently a little more than a thousand members, none of them presently enslaved. In fact, over nine hundred are clergy. I grew up in a loving family with a life of luxury.

So while Silas may have an actual opinion, I simply assume Slaver is attempting to get a rise out of us.
You claim none of your surviving relatives are slaves? Sir your comments stretch credibility beyond it's limits, in the more then 2000 years since Palius Barraca, that's more then 100 generations you number a little more than 1000? That's not a family line, that is a fading dash. You see the reality is that we Pure True Amarr are quite big on big families, if your family line could produce only 1000 or so living descendants after two thousand plus years you have a significant problem.

I have 8 brothers and 6 sisters, 5 uncles and 4 aunts on my fathers side alone, my paternal grandfather and 4 of his siblings are still alive and they all have children, grand children and great grand children. I think perhaps house “Baracca” would be well advised to deposit their seed someplace other then the backside of their slaveboys. You're really not doing your part to grow the Empire.

Clearly the number you tossed out is a complete fabrication, as is your alleged high born status, “Baracca” are low caste and readily bought and sold. For the last 1500 years my family has run a nice hidden away planet and now a wormhole that has a static connection to Amarr null sec, so we are generally safe from the predation of other major houses. In the same 2000 plus years since your Palius Baracca started your anemic family my family currently number over 150,000.

Although “Slaver Filth” is actually my title, and is reflective of the fact that I am the overseer of our slaves, and other livestock, it is a family tradition handed down from when generations ago our women made sure we men washed the stench of the filthy slaves from us before coming into the homesite for meals an prayers.

Because I do not bow to the Sarum abomination that squats on the throne of the Amarr in defiance of the ancient edicts of the “Shathol'Syn” and the doctrine of “Sacred Flesh” you think you have the right to question me, a pure True Amarr, member of the “Speakers Of Truth” a full member of the “Council Of Apostles” albeit banned, is still recognized by those in opposition to the heretic posing as Empress. Because that heretic sits on the throne I find it advantageous not to use my family surname in public forums.

"Child of Amarr seek not warmth in our cold hearts, we are the old serpent of New Eden and you must do your part, revel in our viciousness, we rule by venom and our strike is merciless, "

Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#30 - 2013-09-15 16:30:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Anabella Rella
I may have to rethink my position here.

Pilot Baracca I have two major issues with what you've posted since I did. Firstly, you say that the vast majority of "commoner" imperials probably have no concern with or connection to the reclaiming campaign. I find this troubling due to the nature of your society. The Empire isn't a democracy; it's ruled by Jamyl I and indirectly via the Heirs. Theirs are the only words and deeds that matter. For now that group strongly endorses reclaiming so, that's who I'm going to pay attention to. It's nice to think that the "90%" don't want my people killed or enslaved, our culture eradicated and after 9 generations be allowed to take our place as second class "citizens" under your rule, I suppose. However, what they think is completely immaterial. What matters are the words and deeds of Sarum, the Heir families, Theology Council and aristocracy.

My second issue revolves around the fact that while you feel humbled for your "failures" of subduing the Jove and Minmatar, you don't feel that these aggressive acts were plain immoral and should never happen again; you feel that you simply "did it wrong" and should try again. At one point you even state that the Matari were "gift wrapped presents" for you granted by your deity! Gods and spirits, man! We're not ******* toys placed into existence for your pleasure to treat as you would dolls or spaceship models. WE ARE HUMAN BEINGS with the sacrosanct right to determine our own fates as we see fit. The fact that you feel otherwise tells me, once again, why even among your people who aren't sadistic mouth breathers like Pilot Filth, there can never be peace between us.

Unless and until you abandon the doctrine that you are the penultimate humans and all others, be they Matari, Gallente, Caldari or Jove, exist solely to serve you and bend to your will, your culture and your cruel deity, we will remain at war. *


*TL;DR: Thanks for the clarification. I was almost ready to swallow your poisoned fruit drink served up in a pretty glass.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

Slaver Filth
Council of Apostles
#31 - 2013-09-15 18:11:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Slaver Filth
Anabella Rella wrote:
I may have to rethink my position here.

Pilot Baracca I have two major issues with what you've posted since I did. Firstly, you say that the vast majority of "commoner" imperials probably have no concern with or connection to the reclaiming campaign. I find this troubling due to the nature of your society. The Empire isn't a democracy; it's ruled by Jamyl I and indirectly via the Heirs. Theirs are the only words and deeds that matter. For now that group strongly endorses reclaiming so, that's who I'm going to pay attention to. It's nice to think that the "90%" don't want my people killed or enslaved, our culture eradicated and after 9 generations be allowed to take our place as second class "citizens" under your rule, I suppose. However, what they think is completely immaterial. What matters are the words and deeds of Sarum, the Heir families, Theology Council and aristocracy.

My second issue revolves around the fact that while you feel humbled for your "failures" of subduing the Jove and Minmatar, you don't feel that these aggressive acts were plain immoral and should never happen again; you feel that you simply "did it wrong" and should try again. At one point you even state that the Matari were "gift wrapped presents" for you granted by your deity! Gods and spirits, man! We're not ******* toys placed into existence for your pleasure to treat as you would dolls or spaceship models. WE ARE HUMAN BEINGS with the sacrosanct right to determine our own fates as we see fit. The fact that you feel otherwise tells me, once again, why even among your people who aren't sadistic mouth breathers like Pilot Filth, there can never be peace between us.

Unless and until you abandon the doctrine that you are the penultimate humans and all others, be they Matari, Gallente, Caldari or Jove, exist solely to serve you and bend to your will, your culture and your cruel deity, we will remain at war. *


*TL;DR: Thanks for the clarification. I was almost ready to swallow your poisoned fruit drink served up in a pretty glass.
Pure True Amarr are the apex predators of God's creation, this is nothing we should ever apologize about or shirk the responsibility of, and we have been granted sacred dominion over all the lesser creations of God. However even we Pure Amarr are not infallible, we did allow billions of Matari to flee from their natural condition as controlled livestock to wander the cluster and rage against us in their childlike anger which had the inevitable effect of them turning on themselves and their allies amongst the other lesser creations of God, the Gallente, and the Caldari.

Once these three lesser creations of God's majesty are enslaved, collared, and dependent upon Vitoc we free Pure True Amarr will continue to build our genetic strength by purging the weak apologists who walk among us and grant them the equality they so desperately seek with all others we have been given dominion of as livestock.Then with the cluster under proper control we will patiently bide our time until we have the weapons to successfully hunt down the non-human Jove and grant those diseased creatures the peace and finality of genocide.

Cruelty has always been the way of the universe, and our harsh cruel deity demands that the Pure True Amarr be dispassionate, faithful, disciplined, and fit to fulfill our divine role. So we the Pure Amarr dedicate our lives and those of the generations to come to proving ourselves worthy and capable of this solemn obligation to fulfill God's will.

"Child of Amarr seek not warmth in our cold hearts, we are the old serpent of New Eden and you must do your part, revel in our viciousness, we rule by venom and our strike is merciless, "

Nicoletta Mithra
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#32 - 2013-09-15 21:09:59 UTC
Mr Heretic Filth,

not being born as Amarr is what makes us deserving, but living righteous lives in fear of God. Not only do you quote texts as Scripture that don't check out as such, which is clearly unrighteous and heretic, you also make a grave mistake in doctrinal matters if you take the Position that there are those that are born with spurs on their feet and those with saddles on their back. This is a heretical sabikish position.

You clearly show yourself to be a heretic who lies without shame.


Cpt.Baracca,

maybe Ms. Vitalia seems like a real person and is so, compared with the heretic filth that tries to troll you, she has no more of a valid opinion that he. Heresy, whether held by a troll or anyone else is never a valid opinion, it's a crime. And Ms. Vitalia insists quite vehemently on her misguided 'opinions'. Also, she isn't ready to listen. Words are lost on those that close their ears to them.

Regards,
-N. Mithra
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2013-09-15 22:56:21 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:


Unless and until you abandon the doctrine that you are the penultimate humans and all others, be they Matari, Gallente, Caldari or Jove, exist solely to serve you and bend to your will, your culture and your cruel deity, we will remain at war. *


*TL;DR: Thanks for the clarification. I was almost ready to swallow your poisoned fruit drink served up in a pretty glass.


To be fair, moderate Amarrians like Father Constantin don't believe the rest of the cluster exist to serve their will. He actually spent quite a lot of time clarifying that they weren't just tools that would do all the work while Amarrians lazed around.

While I wholeheartedly agree with you regarding what you said earlier in your post, lets give credit where credit is due here.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2013-09-15 23:06:31 UTC
Slaver Filth wrote:
For the last 1500 years my family has run a nice hidden away planet in a wormhole that has a static connection to Amarr null sec

The wormholes have been open for only four years, and by definition there's no such thing as "Amarr null sec."

If you're going to troll, at least put some effort into it.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#35 - 2013-09-15 23:46:23 UTC
RE: Annabella Rella

Well, I suppose the answer is cultural. I've spent a lot of time understanding other people and their cultures to see where they are coming from. To understand the Empire the same way, you need to understand where we are coming from. What you see as slavery doesn't seem very free to me. I had to learn what was better about being outside of our system and in yours.

You have to understand that many of the problems you face in more or less "free" societies isn't an issue in ours. In our society, slaves are struggling to maintain their education and hopefully become free. In your societies, it seemed alien to me, at first, that people begin free and then struggle mightily to be enslaved. It is considered a great privilege outside the Empire to be valued, as it is in the Amarrian Empire. But that value is determined by others, just as it is in Amarr. Wage slaves in their companies labor to produce products, but the products are not theirs. They are the property of their companies, the profits exist for their companies to then dole back as wages in as small amounts as possible.

But slaves, and even masters, in Amarr are trained, from birth, to be useful. I was expected, as had nearly the entirety of my family before me, to enter the priesthood and attain high position there. I was reading Scripture as early as I could read and was taking care of sacraments before I was ten. I was technically free to do something else, but it would have been difficult. I would have no help from my family for they have no connections to set up, say, a mining company for me to run. It isn't an issue, as when you are raised nearly from birth to do a job, it really is something you grow to love.

Such it is with slaves. A wise master trains servants to the best of their abilities in jobs they can use. If that job suddenly becomes irrelevant, it is in a master's interest to make sure the slave stays relevant, either by selling him or retraining him into another job. The unemployment rate among the slaves in the Empire is zero. A master who does not feed, clothe, and train his slaves is wasting his own investment, because his servants are his. They will not take talents he pays for them to have to another master unless he wills it. So investment in a good servant is truly investment in one's own enterprise.

Contrast that to outside the Empire. You are responsible for your own training and your own market value. In essence, you are your first slave master, desperately trying to invest in your own worth to sell yourself to another master. You wrack up tremendous debt. Debt and poverty are the Vitoxin of the other empires, and Isk is the Vitoc. You are all infected with debt from the moment you enter adulthood and you are generally given just enough ISK to pay it off and buy something to make yourself feel better about your situation. Sometimes, once in a great while, one of your wage slaves rises in position and becomes a Slaver in your culture.

One thing I have learned is that wages on the 90%, the lowest classes of your society, face downward pressure. To make sure that stock prices rise if there is no expansion, stock prices freeze and inflation makes sure those wages fall. But if you do not like it, you can always find another job. This is important, that you can determine your slave master. But it is the system you work in that determines your wage, so you may expect better treatment or may not. You don't know until you make your own mistake or benefit from your choice. Whichever way, you start from the bottom, largely leaving any accomplishments or accolades behind.

If you are outmoded or there are not enough jobs for your field, it is up to you to either take a job below your station or to retrain yourself. You take on more debt and invest your time that you would have otherwise spent productively. Failures in your system create the ranks of the impoverished and unemployed. People turn to crime not because they don't want to work, but because they can't pay for their debts with the work they get. Those who succeed become embroiled in the system, scanning the ranks of the workers to enslave them as well. To entrench them and get them hooked on Isk, knowing that the only way they can leave is if they find another supplier.

Don't take offense to this; I really don't mean to be offensive. It's a cultural distinction between us and the rest of the cluster. I am very well aware of how you see us, but I don't think you realize how we see you. Why Amarrians can't really say we are sorry for enslaving your people. We see the rest of the cluster with populations struggling to eat, to afford basic living expenses, to not be able to focus on anything outside of work. In our space, before you fall into such a pit, at least the slavery system catches you. You will be fed, you will have work, you will have education, you will have shelter. To us, it seems the only freedom the rest of the cluster wants, that they kill for, that they fight for, that they die for, is to starve.

In good conscience, I can't honestly say I am sorry your people were enslaved. I can understand what you value in your system that you see value in it, but that distinction is cultural. I may not think you should be enslaved again since we were obviously failing as your "employers," you could say, but I can't tell you that you should never have been brought into the system at all.

I don't think, objectively, you're all necessarily better off.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Slaver Filth
Council of Apostles
#36 - 2013-09-16 00:13:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Slaver Filth
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Slaver Filth wrote:
For the last 1500 years my family has run a nice hidden away planet in a wormhole that has a static connection to Amarr null sec

The wormholes have been open for only four years, and by definition there's no such thing as "Amarr null sec."

If you're going to troll, at least put some effort into it.
I forgive your ignorance of how True Amarr view the universe, your being a Gallente some things might inherently be beyond your grasp. Null sec portions of New Eden controlled by True Amarr families/houses are parochially considered Amarr Null Sec by us. The other was a typo, now corrected. My keyboard has a lag. Actually quite strange in fact.

"Child of Amarr seek not warmth in our cold hearts, we are the old serpent of New Eden and you must do your part, revel in our viciousness, we rule by venom and our strike is merciless, "

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2013-09-16 00:41:04 UTC
A typo? Sure it was, buddy. We all saw what you wrote.

I should point out that no-one on this board really believes anything you're saying about the vast temporal power your family supposedly has. In any case, bragging about this sort of thing isn't going to get you very far on the IGS. My father happens to be one of the richest men on Intaki Prime, but that doesn't mean squat in the capsuleer world - given how much planetary currency a single ISK represents, his collected wealth wouldn't even buy one of our frigates. The claim that you hold members of another capsuleer's family in slavery are easily disproven - I've had Amarrians claim to hold members of my family in slavery before, not that any of them were true.

Finally, your claims of superiority - well, you're only two years out of the Academy, you've never held a position in any capsuleer corporation and you've no retrievable kill record, so I don't think we'd be in any doubt as to what'd happen if we met on the field of battle. Likewise, from your behaviour on the IGS, you don't really seem to understand very much about the world around you - including many aspects of your own culture, so I doubt its nature is intellectual, either. Clearly the preeminence you lay claim to is the intangible sort of "spiritual" superiority that's conveniently impossible to prove but very easy to brag about.

It's quite clear that even other Amarrians don't have very much time for you, and I can assure you that what with the way you act, you won't find better luck with other cultures. Federation, State and Republic alike have all had Amarrians telling us they're innately superior for decades - we haven't seen it yet.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#38 - 2013-09-16 00:59:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Constantin Baracca
I apologize, it seems this post was doubled.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#39 - 2013-09-16 01:00:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Constantin Baracca
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Anabella Rella wrote:


Unless and until you abandon the doctrine that you are the penultimate humans and all others, be they Matari, Gallente, Caldari or Jove, exist solely to serve you and bend to your will, your culture and your cruel deity, we will remain at war. *


*TL;DR: Thanks for the clarification. I was almost ready to swallow your poisoned fruit drink served up in a pretty glass.


To be fair, moderate Amarrians like Father Constantin don't believe the rest of the cluster exist to serve their will. He actually spent quite a lot of time clarifying that they weren't just tools that would do all the work while Amarrians lazed around.

While I wholeheartedly agree with you regarding what you said earlier in your post, lets give credit where credit is due here.


I thank you for the support, Fred. It would be better if all Amarrians accepted our failure rather than accepting that the Empress has accepted our failure.

It is perfectly reasonable that Bella would find the view somewhat repugnant, though. As I said, I did travel the cluster quite a bit. I think it's a differing viewpoint on paternalism. The prevailing argument against slavery is, "Why are you to enslave us and tell us what to do?" Which is, considering culture, a very valid point. It isn't as if everyone believes we have God given rights the same way we do. They don't see how the Udorians have been absorbed into our culture as opposed to those still in transition.

More importantly, I do tend to describe my culture the way it is supposed to be. Not every Holder is benevolent, nor even are they all wise. Plenty did not see the value in proper education and freeing their slaves when they had learned. I can say I grew up in a family where the established and Scriptural doctrines were both closely followed and worked well. That is not always the case, in fact it is not always that it is even the majority of the case.

I think another point of contention is that people outside of the Amarr Empire misunderstand the idea that we are God's chosen people. That seems to be misunderstood by some of those even inside the Empire to mean that we are never wrong and never make mistakes. We are just as fallible as anyone else. We fail, we stumble, some of us do not even care that we do make mistakes. The only thing we can say is that our God chose us to spread his Word to everyone until we all see the wisdom of the Scriptures and the entirety of the universe's people are Amarrian.

I suppose you could say I take the long view. I don't necessarily see the point in invading, killing, and forcibly enslaving when our faith stands perfectly to reason on its own. Given enough time preaching the faith, I think people will all convert. It may take thousands or even tens of thousands of years. The point is that living with devotion, faith, and unity is simply a good idea and everyone will eventually take up the Scriptures if we continue setting a good example and show them how great the Amarrian Empire is. Forcibly entering and taking slaves from another people means that you need to wait generations and generations for people to not feel offended and to see the wisdom of God. It makes it that much harder for good Holders to educate their servants. It means people who do not have the faith will not trust the Word, and instead they would need to be conquered as well.

Essentially, re-invading Matari space isn't exactly speeding up the entirety of the cluster's conversion. The rest of the people who are REALLY looking for spiritual health, the people who are suffering and wanting to know why their own societies do not even care enough to take care of them, don't need to be forced into the Empire. But if we convert larger and larger populations peacefully, everyone will see the value of hard work.

God's not in a hurry, but I do think that, in the long term, it will be easier to convert everyone via ministry than by forcibly invading their empires one by one, hoping they don't unite against us.

Invading and killing them, in that sense, may seem like a short-term boon, but is really counterproductive to God's intentions for the universe.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2013-09-16 03:18:05 UTC
Constantin Baracca wrote:
Given enough time preaching the faith, I think people will all convert.

No.

This is the problem, more than anything else. All but the most liberal of Amarrians simply do not understand that this simple belief is the source of all the problems it's had interacting with the universe. "If we keep trying, eventually this will work." No. There is an old adage about how repeating something over and over and expecting different results is the very definition of insanity - if that is so, then all of Amarr is insane, because that's what you're doing. Oh, it might seem like you're trying different things - slavery, conquest evangelism, diplomacy, trade - but what you're ultimately trying to do is make your religion our religion and your culture our culture.

Well we don't want your religion, and we don't want your culture. We want our religions, and we want our cultures, and we're not going to stop wanting our religions and our cultures, and we're not going to stop wanting to be seperate from the Empire. This is what precious few Amarrians have been able to accept or even comprehend, and I don't joke about that - a lot of the conversations I've had with Amarrians and other Imperial citizens who follow the Empire's orthodoxy genuinely do not seem to be able to wrap their heads around the concept of societies that don't want to be part of the Empire. They literally don't understand the concept.

Now, there are those who say "well we understand that you want your own culture, nation and religion, we're just not going to let you," which is simple arrogance and selfishness, but there seems to be this genuine lack of comprehension among certain sectors of the Amarrian populace as to the very existence of people who don't yearn to be part of the Empire and its traditions. And that sort of mindset just ain't sustainable.

I would be perfectly happy to leave the Empire alone. In an ideal world, to be brutally honest, I'd like the Empire to end slavery and grant independence to the Ni-Kunni and the Ealurians, but I would be content with an enforceable guarantee not to engage in cultural or military conquest against the other nations. The problem is that until the Empire understands that we do not want what they're selling and never will, we can't really have peace. We can only have periods in which we're not shooting at each other.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.