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Class 7 & 8 Wormholes
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Vizvig
Savage Blizzard
#21 - 2013-09-12 21:04:12 UTC
In mid-twenties, these things in the MMO, do not want.
kerradeph
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2013-09-13 01:01:52 UTC
HTC NecoSino wrote:
Icarus Able wrote:
We already know quite a lot about the sleepers.


We really don't, though. From what I gathered via CCP posts, blogs and books..

  • The first wormhole was the great rift which allowed humanity to move into New Eden.
  • There were no other wormholes until a cataclysmic event caused a planet to explode. Suddenly, there were wormholes.
  • The Jovians had some sort of knowledge of the sleepers before this event.
  • The sleepers are considered "advanced." However, over 8000 years passed between the Eve gate collapsing and the New Eden that we know today. These "dark ages" resulted in colonies falling back into medieval ages technologically, and forgetting much of what was brought from Earth. Who knows for sure where the sleepers came from, or what happened during that 8000 years.
  • Nobody knows what happened to the sleepers' owners, but some lore suggested a biochemical weapon they were developing failed and killed them all.
  • The Sansha nation was able to make use of wormholes quickly, and almost immediately began using them to travel the universe. (Yet we never see Sansha ships in wormhole space, hmm...)


I think there's a lot of room to expand on the sleeper lore, as well as drawing in new connections and even more content.


correct on the first two, past that you're missing some thing. the jove are actually the guardians of the sleepers, the sleepers are the main part of their population while the jove are modified keepers that were supposed to make sure the sleepers made it to their destination. yes, the jove were the less intelligent of the race, but overall they are similar to the difference of people in the human race that would have been selected to go on an interstellar journey to colonize other galaxies. we know that the jove kept modifying themselves to be able to better care for the sleepers, and as they did that, they started creating more AI and integrating more of it into themselves. eventually, this created a virus that killed off most of the jove. the sleepers are still alive, the drones that we call sleepers are part of the protection of the jove, the sleepers have been found and we are gradually killing off their entire race to create the dust mercs. and just because sansha have wormholes down't mean they are traversing W-space, just that they can create wormholes from one place to another. and considering how fast the news spread about the horrors that waited in W-space, I'm guessing sansha didn't feel like wasting resources trying to conquer enemies that he couldn't add to his own army through brain implants and modification.

as to the actual thread, it could be a neat idea, force consistent activity in a corporation or even alliance so that they don't lose their assets in the form of POSes and anything stored at those poses. maybe make them star clusters that would all act like a single system for being on the same node, but the stars would be out of normal scanning range but you could warp between them by markers set by the sleepers millennia ago. so maybe 300-400 au apart. sure you can still toss probes over, but D-scan would not be useful, and it would be relatively decent since it would take a respectably long time to warp between them but not a prohibitively long time.
Dring Dingle
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2013-09-13 11:44:33 UTC
HTC NecoSino wrote:
One of the biggest perks of WH space is the small-gang pvp. We especially love day-trippers. Requiring keys to access WH anoms would reduce the number of day-trippers, thus reducing content. I can't support that idea.

The higher-class wormholes come with higher risks and need better sites to compensate for the increased risk (and inevitable increased losses). Having a high-class wormhole which can spawn C1 sites would be laughable and makes me wonder if you have even ran sites in WH space. (Your killboard says Null).

My train of thought was C5/6 with bigger sleeper ships, C7/8 with actual outposts built onto moons that cannot be destroyed. C9/10 with a "Sleeper planet" where the sleepers have taken over the surface of a planet and to look at it, all you see are sleeper structures. Attack waves would be so frequent in these systems that it would be very, very hard to keep towers there without having a few people online 24/7. These systems would be for only the largest, most hard-core WH alliances.

These sleeper-present systems would also sometimes drop notes or books in the capital ship wrecks. Logs maybe, or letters that the sleeper ships had recovered from their former owners' ships/corpses which shed more light on what happened to them.



Well I did say off the top of my head.... I just want more mystery and unknown. (And this is a nul alt, I don't post on my wh main too much time logging in and out of the forums ;P )

"These systems would be for only the largest, most hard-core WH alliances. " This just = more isk for larger corps/alliance's. It will be very fast that a routine is established and it turns into a grind.

Any change has to be made across the board. New players can't get involved at that level. -please don't pretend that they can, let alone a corp/alliance accepting a scrub at that level of 'hard-core-ness' and like it or not any expansion CCP creates is going to be newb friendly.. = more subs.

I'd love the ships dropping lore.... Like actually LOVE it. Even if it leads nowhere. Least its something.

For the ultimate injection of love and players into wh space the 'only' Roll thing CCP would need to do is introduce sleeper hulls... (Maybe tanky fkers that only have bonuses to damage against other sleeper ships/hulls. -maybe you need a cybernetic sleeper interface implant to use them, bpc's that only drop in wh space, and can only be built in wh space ? Sleeper construction array? = attack that pos. just spit balling) but again.... Any change has to be universal. :)

O7 Dringy.
HTC NecoSino
Suddenly Carebears
#24 - 2013-09-17 17:04:31 UTC
Dring Dingle wrote:
"These systems would be for only the largest, most hard-core WH alliances. " This just = more isk for larger corps/alliance's. It will be very fast that a routine is established and it turns into a grind.


Agreed, and that's kind of the point. It gives people in the lower class WHs something to strive for and something to progress towards, similar to Level 1-5 missions.

Quote:
Any change has to be made across the board. New players can't get involved at that level. -please don't pretend that they can, let alone a corp/alliance accepting a scrub at that level of 'hard-core-ness' and like it or not any expansion CCP creates is going to be newb friendly.. = more subs.


Better end-game content (so to speak, for WHs at least) = fewer lost subs.

Quote:
I'd love the ships dropping lore.... Like actually LOVE it. Even if it leads nowhere. Least its something.

For the ultimate injection of love and players into wh space the 'only' Roll thing CCP would need to do is introduce sleeper hulls... (Maybe tanky fkers that only have bonuses to damage against other sleeper ships/hulls. -maybe you need a cybernetic sleeper interface implant to use them, bpc's that only drop in wh space, and can only be built in wh space ? Sleeper construction array? = attack that pos. just spit balling) but again.... Any change has to be universal. :)


Sleeper hull ships FTW :D
Horus V
The Destined
#25 - 2013-09-17 17:36:05 UTC
+ 1 for harder wormholes (in my opinion class 9 should be nearly impossible to find or kill their residents, anchoring POS should not be an option unless you have caps guarding it 24/7-just give players something to do before they collect goodies and isk)
+ 1 for sleepers camping wormholes and sometimes even make them automatically join fights. (sleepers should sometimes detect any kind of aggression withing the system and attack both parties randomly.
+ 1 for sleepers randomly attacking POS and reinforcing it if there is nobody to defend it.

V
HTC NecoSino
Suddenly Carebears
#26 - 2013-09-18 15:16:06 UTC
Horus V wrote:
+ 1 for sleepers camping wormholes and sometimes even make them automatically join fights. (sleepers should sometimes detect any kind of aggression withing the system and attack both parties randomly.
+ 1 for sleepers randomly attacking POS and reinforcing it if there is nobody to defend it.


I'm thinking that these two ideas should be spread to all wormholes Twisted
HTC NecoSino
Suddenly Carebears
#27 - 2013-10-29 17:07:07 UTC
Bumpetty bump Shocked
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#28 - 2013-10-29 17:37:57 UTC
HTC NecoSino wrote:
Arya Regnar wrote:
HTC NecoSino wrote:

Jezza, think of the isk! We live like kings off a C5, just imagine.... Capital fights every day.
Twisted

That's why it's bad.

More isk per hour is not how you present new ideas.



More isk per hour, more risk, more content, and more lore (getting closer to the former sleeper home system(s)).


NPC's do not truly give risk... It is only a matter of time before people figure out how to beat them and farm them for the reward.

Players are what give risk, so why don't you actually add in the risk:

So... you want capital sleepers to blap... fine... But for whatever reason, you cannot close the WH's into/out of these systems. Give them standard wh attributes (max mass, max jumpable mass, and most importantly, mass regen). Then, anytime you "exceed" the mass limit of the whole, it fades out rather than closes so the WH may regenerate its mass limits. When faded, the WH becomes impassible for ships while it regens mass. After ~20 minutes of being faded, the WH re-materializes with a new mass limit around 700m m3 (i.e. you can send a cap one way through it, an 3x Orca ~trips, or hole fleet of AHACs).

Furthermore, It seems ******** to me for you to live in a WH and let your POS autokill sleepers for you to loot/salvage.... HELL NO. If you want harder or more badass sleepers... fine... but you need to get a group of pilots together to go kill them!!
Daide Vondrichnov
French Drop-O-Panache
Snuffed Out
#29 - 2013-10-30 02:51:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Daide Vondrichnov
The number of C8 wormhole should be 10 or less in order to push people to fight for them, Just like a "King of the hill" mode.
xKOMODOx
#30 - 2013-10-30 17:44:13 UTC
Some good and interesting ideas. WH always need a little extra love...

How about a new "class" of WH - M31 Unstable Blackhole, which decay rapidly and since it is unstable randomly changes the perimeters every 36-48 hours. Center of gravity changes which causes different effects to ships, POSs and sleepers. Also, the k162 can be random from c1-c6 mass and to "spice up" we just add some bad ass sleepers occasionally.
Meytal
Doomheim
#31 - 2013-10-30 18:09:08 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
NPC's do not truly give risk... It is only a matter of time before people figure out how to beat them and farm them for the reward.

More PvE content is not what's needed, unless it contains a lot of rich story content. CCP is not known for adding much of story content to PvE to make it entertaining and interesting, as they seem to want us to do as little PvE as possible. This will just be the new high-class W-space ISK printing machine.
Asa Shahni
Inevitable Outcome
E.C.H.O
#32 - 2013-10-31 11:40:39 UTC
more sleeper content is great until you figure out how to milk them (capital escalation anyone ?) and then its boring just another way to make loads of isk with minimal efforts.
the idea of sleepers attacking the POS i like it but theres no need for capital NPC ...WH space doesnt need another milk cow (setting 32 POS to have multiple cap loot ect)
GodSentMe
Playing God Enterprises
#33 - 2013-10-31 13:16:13 UTC
The idea of a sleeper home system is a good one. It should be the ultimate blast your face off sites in WH space. The changes to the original idea should be as follows:
    • The location of home systems should be hard to find. You need to collect parts for a nav beacon from wrecks in WH systems.
    • The lore for these ships would be " activity in WH space has caused the home worlds to randomly sent out scouts to investigate" These scouts are the ships that need to be killed for a chance to drop a piece of the beacon
    • Once you have all the pieces you have to assemble it.This creates many options for all players to trade, build, sell, or invade the site
    • The beacon is a one way trip you have to complete a site to get a beacon back to you original location.
    • The beacon acts like a regular WH as in has mass limits just make them larger to accommodate the fleet size needed to do these sites.
    • The side effect of attacking a home system is that a Sleeper fleet is spawned in a random WH system. This fleet lays waste to all active ship sigs in system. Once it destroys all active ships it moves to a connecting system. While in system all WH exits collapse, until the fleet is destroyed or leaves system.

    Now that would be a fun addition
    		•
    NearNihil
    Jump Drive Appreciation Society
    #34 - 2013-10-31 13:18:12 UTC
    I can't think of a reason why we need more PVE content. We need different PVE content, sure, but not more.

    Unless the new and proposed Sleepers use CONCORD weapons, in which case I'm all for it.
    Kaerakh
    Obscure Joke Implied
    #35 - 2013-10-31 14:14:59 UTC
    HTC NecoSino wrote:
    About time to stir up some more sleepers, eh? This time, lets bring the fight to their (former) outposts!

    The C7 and C8 wormhole systems would feature "Sleeper Assembly Hubs" (or something similar) that were built onto the surface of a moon. These hubs continue to produce sleeper ships, despite their former owners having long-since died, teleported, transcended or whatever.


    Gonna stop you right there. Go read Templar One. It's a good read and if you want to make lore suggestions it's recommended you have an idea of what you're talking about and don't sound like the tarantula battleship guy.

    HTC NecoSino wrote:
    The C7 and C8 wormhole systems would offer enhanced sites (anoms, data and relic sites) similar to C5/6 systems but with the addition of sleeper capital ships produced at the "Sleeper Assembly Hubs."


    That does sound cool, but the loot would be so incredibly isk inflating that I'd have to be against it.


    HTC NecoSino wrote:
    In addition, every 36-72 hours (random), the "Sleeper Assembly Hubs" detects the presence of any foreign POS and sends an attack wave to neutralize it. This would comprise of 2 sleeper carriers, 1 sleeper dread, 4-8 BS, and an assortment of cruisers and frigates. That would be 1 wave to 1 POS, not 1 wave to EACH POS.

    The result? Small WH corps that try to move in would have their towers reinforced and/or destroyed if they go innactive. Large corps get to enjoy POS defense, MUCH more difficult sites, and the constant worrying of sleeper attacks. We could have sleepers warp randomly to grav and ladar sites as well, after being sent from the "Sleeper Assembly Hubs" , even wormholes, too.

    Imagine that, coming home and finding 4 sleepers sitting on the wormhole!


    Because Sleepers have such a precedent for being proactive in their automated defenses.

    HTC NecoSino wrote:

    Statics could be anything from a C3-C8, or C5-C8.


    Why the special treatment? My personal favorites are the C5 and C6 with C1 statics. So much troll value.

    HTC NecoSino wrote:
    It's good for CCP because it would increase player losses and be a good source of an isk-sink, countering the isk-faucet of the sleeper sites.


    It's a material sink not an isk sink. The only thing destroyed are manufacturing materials the currency just changes hand in this scenario. =/

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