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Competitive Gaming

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Ustrello
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#301 - 2013-09-17 16:49:00 UTC
Remember when I challenged harry to a 1 v 1 and he was too much of a coward to accept it? But he beats his chest about taking risks~
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#302 - 2013-09-17 17:07:13 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:

I'm soloing goonswarm, 90% of my kills are goons in VFK area, my K/D shows I'm winning every day, the challange and risk i take is close to 50/50... I'm playing 1 vs. 5000, you play 30 vs. 1

you just shoot inferiour players, you loose 1 ship a month because you don't take any risk, not try harder opponents

it is like it is... thats why you don't understand competitive gaming, you are no competitive gamer, but thanks for bumping the thread again


:D

You aren't actually for real, are you?

When you run out of arguments, you make stuff up.



.
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#303 - 2013-09-17 17:16:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Harry Forever
Roime wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:

I'm soloing goonswarm, 90% of my kills are goons in VFK area, my K/D shows I'm winning every day, the challange and risk i take is close to 50/50... I'm playing 1 vs. 5000, you play 30 vs. 1

you just shoot inferiour players, you loose 1 ship a month because you don't take any risk, not try harder opponents

it is like it is... thats why you don't understand competitive gaming, you are no competitive gamer, but thanks for bumping the thread again


:D

You aren't actually for real, are you?

When you run out of arguments, you make stuff up.





you can ask any competitive gamer out there, they will tell you the same

its the main reason why the best tennis pro's play against the best to train, they want to keep the competition up

you would just play tennis against kids and then tell yourselve: look how great I am, I won 1000 times...

I play against 5000 goons solo to assure I get the challange I want

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#304 - 2013-09-17 17:28:16 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:
Roime wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:

I'm soloing goonswarm, 90% of my kills are goons in VFK area, my K/D shows I'm winning every day, the challange and risk i take is close to 50/50... I'm playing 1 vs. 5000, you play 30 vs. 1

you just shoot inferiour players, you loose 1 ship a month because you don't take any risk, not try harder opponents

it is like it is... thats why you don't understand competitive gaming, you are no competitive gamer, but thanks for bumping the thread again


:D

You aren't actually for real, are you?

When you run out of arguments, you make stuff up.





you can ask any competitive gamer out there, they will tell you the same

its the main reason why the best tennis pro's play against the best to train, they want to keep the competition up

you would just play tennis against kids and then tell yourselve: look how great I am, I won 1000 times...

I play against 5000 goons solo to assure I get the challange I want


Harry Forever: Definately not playing tennis against kids & telling everyone how great he is.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#305 - 2013-09-17 17:45:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Harry Forever
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
Roime wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:

I'm soloing goonswarm, 90% of my kills are goons in VFK area, my K/D shows I'm winning every day, the challange and risk i take is close to 50/50... I'm playing 1 vs. 5000, you play 30 vs. 1

you just shoot inferiour players, you loose 1 ship a month because you don't take any risk, not try harder opponents

it is like it is... thats why you don't understand competitive gaming, you are no competitive gamer, but thanks for bumping the thread again


:D

You aren't actually for real, are you?

When you run out of arguments, you make stuff up.





you can ask any competitive gamer out there, they will tell you the same

its the main reason why the best tennis pro's play against the best to train, they want to keep the competition up

you would just play tennis against kids and then tell yourselve: look how great I am, I won 1000 times...

I play against 5000 goons solo to assure I get the challange I want


Harry Forever: Definately not playing tennis against kids & telling everyone how great he is.


this goon has a hard time understanding, the difficulty of killing hauler and cynos in a bomber, when hundreds of their frigates fly through the gates and infront of their station... the expert gaming skills are so far ahead of this one, that he is at a loss to understand soloing the biggest alliance in gaming history

if he would understand, he would probably cower in a corner and cry, he only knows killing ships 1000 vs. 1 thats why he means it would be simular to shoot 1 ship out of an army of 5000...

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#306 - 2013-09-17 17:46:19 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
they would have needed to hire 100 people if they would have attracted the competitive gaming crowd, staff had to leave because your eve does not attract as much people as it should, thats why you need to add some stuff to fill the gap

all fine with the metagame, eve does a good job there, but you need to attract casual gamers as well, not just the ones you are talking about

you want to be special, don't hold back the game because of that

you missunderstand "the universe is yours" you see the universe more like a box, small and restricted

attracting and holding big masses of players will be key, and only be an advantage for the metagame as well

you are against more people in eve, thats your meain reason because then you would not feel special anymore

all parts who could bring more people you are extremely against, because that is how you people are

you ruined the WiS developement, you just ruin everything...

and you just say it to feel cool and be liked by the other stupid kids, thats your reasoning
No Harry. Wrong about literally everything.

Look, if thousands of people want this, why not get them all to come here and tell us. I'm sure if that happened, CCP would jump on making it straight away.


they play other games right now, first CCP has to provide something better to attract them from their stuff, it is very clear what those millions want and how you could bring them to the game, CCP know that already

No, it's not very clear. It's clear they like first person shooter like CoD. It's clear they like fantasy games like Wow. It's NOT at all clear they like a spaceship game. So simply saying "If you build arenas, they will come" is pointless. Get them to come here and ask for arenas, and it will be worth consideration. Until then, I don't see any proof that EVE + ARENA = SUCCESS.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
samualvimes
Brothers At Arms
#307 - 2013-09-17 17:53:19 UTC
The big problem with instanced non-destructive gaming such as that you are suggesting is the knock on effect.


10% (conservative estimate) of people no longer go roaming because why bother? There is PvP on tap!

This means there are less targets for people who continue roaming. This means more people funnel into arenas.

destruction goes down slowly over time and more people go arena as more people get fed up of empty roams.

basically you drain people from real pvp

I'm not saying it will be everyone but I know even I might think twice of going on a roam with a ship I can lose when there is risk free PvP on my doorstep....

If you've never tried PvP in EvE it's quite possible you've missed out on one of the greatest rushes available in modern gaming.
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#308 - 2013-09-17 17:53:23 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
they would have needed to hire 100 people if they would have attracted the competitive gaming crowd, staff had to leave because your eve does not attract as much people as it should, thats why you need to add some stuff to fill the gap

all fine with the metagame, eve does a good job there, but you need to attract casual gamers as well, not just the ones you are talking about

you want to be special, don't hold back the game because of that

you missunderstand "the universe is yours" you see the universe more like a box, small and restricted

attracting and holding big masses of players will be key, and only be an advantage for the metagame as well

you are against more people in eve, thats your meain reason because then you would not feel special anymore

all parts who could bring more people you are extremely against, because that is how you people are

you ruined the WiS developement, you just ruin everything...

and you just say it to feel cool and be liked by the other stupid kids, thats your reasoning
No Harry. Wrong about literally everything.

Look, if thousands of people want this, why not get them all to come here and tell us. I'm sure if that happened, CCP would jump on making it straight away.


they play other games right now, first CCP has to provide something better to attract them from their stuff, it is very clear what those millions want and how you could bring them to the game, CCP know that already

No, it's not very clear. It's clear they like first person shooter like CoD. It's clear they like fantasy games like Wow. It's NOT at all clear they like a spaceship game. So simply saying "If you build arenas, they will come" is pointless. Get them to come here and ask for arenas, and it will be worth consideration. Until then, I don't see any proof that EVE + ARENA = SUCCESS.


no gamer goes to a company and tells them what they want, except me... competitive gamers will love the pvp mechanics provided by eve, but only if they are fast accessible in leagues and arenas... I'm highly convinced that after they had their arena fun, they will hop into eves metagame and do stuff there as well

think of arena fights 1000 vs. 1000 ...accessible in an 1000 vs. 1000 matchup, all gamers out there would want to be part of this, and eve could provide it, every day

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#309 - 2013-09-17 17:54:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
Harry Forever wrote:
they play other games right now, first CCP has to provide something better to attract them...

Yes, it has to provide something more than something something keep at range something orbit something F1.
Yes, it's oversimplification, but describes theoretical mirror 1v1 in EVE pretty well.

Oh wait, CCP already provides this. Too bad it's sandbox.

What you suggest is to bring people to play bastardized EVE that will be the game that represents no value for your average competitive player if limited to "even" arena combat. It also has zero spectator value (this is coming from the guy that likes to watch some good matches of almost anything and has very high tolerance to bulls#it tournament circuses).

Heck, even what you do is not fighting in arenas, or doing even something remotedly close. You play competely another game, mate.

I don't even know why am I replying...

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#310 - 2013-09-17 17:58:19 UTC
samualvimes wrote:
The big problem with instanced non-destructive gaming such as that you are suggesting is the knock on effect.


10% (conservative estimate) of people no longer go roaming because why bother? There is PvP on tap!

This means there are less targets for people who continue roaming. This means more people funnel into arenas.

destruction goes down slowly over time and more people go arena as more people get fed up of empty roams.

basically you drain people from real pvp

I'm not saying it will be everyone but I know even I might think twice of going on a roam with a ship I can lose when there is risk free PvP on my doorstep....


I think people want diversivication, I don't think it would hold me back from going to nullsec and fighting goons in the metagame, its just too different, I like that part... however at some times it gets boring, thats when i would do some arenafights and other stuff, it would make the metagame better I think, because you could experience the gameplay out there a lot better, at the moment gamers like me search too much for fights and loose ships, that gets frustrating, if those gamers have arenas where they can unleash their mindless pew pew, they would have a much better time seeing the advantages of tactical SoV and nullsec metagame... i think i would have more fun playing nullsec if i can trash some ships without loosing isk before that in arenas

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#311 - 2013-09-17 18:01:44 UTC
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
they play other games right now, first CCP has to provide something better to attract them...

Yes, it has to provide something more than something something keep at range something orbit something F1.
Yes, it's oversimplification, but describes theoretical mirror 1v1 in EVE pretty well.

Oh wait, CCP already provides this. Too bad it's sandbox.

What you suggest is to bring people to play bastardized EVE that will be the game that represents no value for your average competitive player if limited to "even" arena combat. It also has zero spectator value (this is coming from the guy that likes to watch some good matches of almost anything and has very high tolerance to bulls#it tournament circuses).

Heck, even what you do is not fighting in arenas, or doing even something remotedly close. You play competely another game, mate.

I don't even know why am I replying...


you just see 1v1, i want multible gamemodes, 10 vs. 10, 100 vs. 100, maybe even 1000 vs. 1000 matchups

everybody would want to not even watch those battles but be part of it... with a matchup system where you are just put together with others, matchmaking could look at ships and player skills to put together even fleets to assure the matches are good

it could be done and could be a lot of fast accessible fun to bring a lot of casual players to eve

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#312 - 2013-09-17 18:05:06 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:
no gamer goes to a company and tells them what they want, except me... competitive gamers will love the pvp mechanics provided by eve, but only if they are fast accessible in leagues and arenas... I'm highly convinced that after they had their arena fun, they will hop into eves metagame and do stuff there as well

think of arena fights 1000 vs. 1000 ...accessible in an 1000 vs. 1000 matchup, all gamers out there would want to be part of this, and eve could provide it, every day
That's a great theory, but you have to PROVE IT. CCP aren't just going to implement a feature because some random new player says it will be a success. They need hard evidence that a change like this would bring in a population.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
samualvimes
Brothers At Arms
#313 - 2013-09-17 18:09:58 UTC
the things you're after can be set up by you!

Why get CCP to do it when all the tools are there for you to set up your own?

If you've never tried PvP in EvE it's quite possible you've missed out on one of the greatest rushes available in modern gaming.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#314 - 2013-09-17 18:51:24 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:


you can ask any competitive gamer out there, they will tell you the same

its the main reason why the best tennis pro's play against the best to train, they want to keep the competition up

you would just play tennis against kids and then tell yourselve: look how great I am, I won 1000 times...

I play against 5000 goons solo to assure I get the challange I want


Harry why aren't you then fighting the best ones? Instead you shoot immobile, defenseless cyno ships.

Do you consider yourself a competitive gamer? Have you tried PVP in EVE?


.
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#315 - 2013-09-17 19:16:37 UTC
Roime wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:


you can ask any competitive gamer out there, they will tell you the same

its the main reason why the best tennis pro's play against the best to train, they want to keep the competition up

you would just play tennis against kids and then tell yourselve: look how great I am, I won 1000 times...

I play against 5000 goons solo to assure I get the challange I want


Harry why aren't you then fighting the best ones? Instead you shoot immobile, defenseless cyno ships.

Do you consider yourself a competitive gamer? Have you tried PVP in EVE?




there is no competitive PvP in this game, its all about shooting weaker opponents

I play competitive in regards of the evironment i shoot down those weaker opponents, its within an army of 5000 goons

still a competitive environmet just for fighting does not exist, you would be stupid to choose copetitive opponets because you loos and need to grind isk again, do another 20+ jumps to find targets

comptetition is not about those things you have in the sandbox, its providing just the fighting

when you play tennis you have a new ball available fast, you do not need to build one after each shot

the pvp in eve is not about competition, therefore does not attract those gamers, this can only be provided without shiploss in arenas

eve pvp is about traps, baits, shooting down weaker targets

competition environment needs to be added because its missing, FW is not sufficient, because of the shiploss of the waiting time, because of the jumps you have to make

it is ok gameplay for the trap, bait, stuff, but not for competition... competition only happens without loss

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#316 - 2013-09-17 19:18:18 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
no gamer goes to a company and tells them what they want, except me... competitive gamers will love the pvp mechanics provided by eve, but only if they are fast accessible in leagues and arenas... I'm highly convinced that after they had their arena fun, they will hop into eves metagame and do stuff there as well

think of arena fights 1000 vs. 1000 ...accessible in an 1000 vs. 1000 matchup, all gamers out there would want to be part of this, and eve could provide it, every day
That's a great theory, but you have to PROVE IT. CCP aren't just going to implement a feature because some random new player says it will be a success. They need hard evidence that a change like this would bring in a population.


sure they would need to look into that, however I do not even think that the matchmaking system would be that hard to program, they could do a beta version pretty quick, and start testing it

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#317 - 2013-09-17 19:33:06 UTC
samualvimes wrote:
the things you're after can be set up by you!

Why get CCP to do it when all the tools are there for you to set up your own?


i don't want to organize the stuff, thats not what a competitive gamer wants

we want to play in the environmet, this is a separated gamemode, seperated from the sandbox

arenas and leagues should be just about fighting

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Orakkus
ImperiaI Federation
Goonswarm Federation
#318 - 2013-09-17 19:39:57 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:
we need universe wide leagues and arenas to assure we can put our best ships to use in some competitive gaming environment

seeing those best ships going down each day on the killboard, ganked by some kids who are just jealous because they don't have the same tech is rediculous

people are grinding for ages just to loose their ships within seconds? there is no point for that except the gleeful

all ships in the hangar should be usable in those arenas as often as you want

you still should be able to loos the ship in some SoV PvP or ganking action, however it would be way different when you have been able to get some real fights with it before that

at the moment PvP is just searching for the weak and easy target, nobody takes up real challanges 30 vs. 1, 5 year old players vs. 3 month old newbs, its all about punching down the weak and not about taking risk and challanges

arenas and leagues would change it all and bring the competitive gaming crowd to the game


You'd have to go back a couple years, around August 2011, to really see when this last was seriously reviewed. About that time World of Tanks was really hitting its stride and players were joining left and right. About that time if you weren't playing Eve, you were playing WoT. The popularity of WoT started to get people talking about setting up arena style areas for combat. At that time too, there was at least one on-going frigate tournament that had been quite involved for some.

However, the big problems back then, are still the big problems for today. First off, 30 versus 1 sure sounds exciting, but trying to actually see it isn't. CCP has made great strides in making the Alliance Tournament more "viewer friendly", but I can't imagine the effort it would take for that to become publically available in live time.

Second is one that has already been mentioned: that of location. The more popular an event becomes, the more likely it is going to be interfered with. Unfortunately, that just doesn't help with making any type of tournaments popular. There has to be some level of stability for competitive game to be enjoyable in the long term, to be considered actual "content". Even CCP has to isolate the Alliance Tournament so that it remains a fair event.

Will CCP look into this, I'm sure they already have. Maybe they got something in the works.. we'll just have to keep pressing on them with ideas and such:

Oh and here is where the legendary Kirith Kodachi started this topic: http://www.ninveah.com/2011/08/world-of-tanks-lessons-to-be-learned.html/

He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#319 - 2013-09-17 20:03:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Harry Forever
Orakkus wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
we need universe wide leagues and arenas to assure we can put our best ships to use in some competitive gaming environment

seeing those best ships going down each day on the killboard, ganked by some kids who are just jealous because they don't have the same tech is rediculous

people are grinding for ages just to loose their ships within seconds? there is no point for that except the gleeful

all ships in the hangar should be usable in those arenas as often as you want

you still should be able to loos the ship in some SoV PvP or ganking action, however it would be way different when you have been able to get some real fights with it before that

at the moment PvP is just searching for the weak and easy target, nobody takes up real challanges 30 vs. 1, 5 year old players vs. 3 month old newbs, its all about punching down the weak and not about taking risk and challanges

arenas and leagues would change it all and bring the competitive gaming crowd to the game


You'd have to go back a couple years, around August 2011, to really see when this last was seriously reviewed. About that time World of Tanks was really hitting its stride and players were joining left and right. About that time if you weren't playing Eve, you were playing WoT. The popularity of WoT started to get people talking about setting up arena style areas for combat. At that time too, there was at least one on-going frigate tournament that had been quite involved for some.

However, the big problems back then, are still the big problems for today. First off, 30 versus 1 sure sounds exciting, but trying to actually see it isn't. CCP has made great strides in making the Alliance Tournament more "viewer friendly", but I can't imagine the effort it would take for that to become publically available in live time.

Second is one that has already been mentioned: that of location. The more popular an event becomes, the more likely it is going to be interfered with. Unfortunately, that just doesn't help with making any type of tournaments popular. There has to be some level of stability for competitive game to be enjoyable in the long term, to be considered actual "content". Even CCP has to isolate the Alliance Tournament so that it remains a fair event.

Will CCP look into this, I'm sure they already have. Maybe they got something in the works.. we'll just have to keep pressing on them with ideas and such:

Oh and here is where the legendary Kirith Kodachi started this topic: http://www.ninveah.com/2011/08/world-of-tanks-lessons-to-be-learned.html/


thanks for the article, he has exactly the same feeling about arenas like me, I would even think that arenas would attract so many competitive gamers because of the easy access nature, it would have a positive impact on the metagame and the whole population of eve, arenas and leagues would be completely different gameplay and people should just see it as simulation within the game, like training ground for pvp... completely seperated from the sandbox universe, the only connection should be that you are able to access the arena over the hangar, and that you only can use ships that you have in your hangar... the arena should take place in an virtual reality room within the stations, seperated from all the other gameplay

they could do a small animation, when entering arenas, the avatar puts on a VR goggle and this gives him access to the arenas and leagues, like a game within the game

I think of some gamemodes 1 vs. 1, 10 vs. 10, 50 vs. 50, 100 vs. 100 maybe even higher

matchmaking should be done over the client, an algorithm should put together gamers or group of gamers and stockup the fleets until the numbers are reached, skill and shiptypes should be used to bring together even or kind of even fleets

this would assure a new player can fastly access bigger battles and see what eve is about

starcraft matchmaking and leagues would be a good example how this could be done

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#320 - 2013-09-17 20:53:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Roime
Harry Forever wrote:

there is no competitive PvP in this game, its all about shooting weaker opponents


It's full of competitive PVP, but it really appears that you are not competitive enough for EVE.


Quote:
competition only happens without loss


No, without losses there are no wins either. Competing is about winning.

Your output resembles that of a bot, you fail to read other people's posts and answer their questions, and keep repeating the same sentences over and over like that would make them somehow more valid.

gl, Harry o7

.