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Why do the stars remain unchanging in size even as you travel away?

First post First post
Author
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#101 - 2013-09-20 02:13:10 UTC
Please do not feed the trolls.

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#102 - 2013-09-20 02:20:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Ciaphas Cyne wrote:
i dont care about perceived brightness. I care about the amount of light in and around pluto.
…which leads us back to the point about how you chose poorly when picking an article that was about perceived brightness. Oh, and as the article points out, there's nothing really anecdotal about what the Sun looks like from other parts of space since we can trivially simulate it on earth.

The other point is that, yes, you've been very fuzzy about the concept of “brightness”, which can describe almost any of the photo- and radiometric measurements.

Quote:
a sun, just like a light bulb, burns at its center
…and elsewhere. And no, the energy transfer through a long and cumbersome mix of conduction, convection and radiation within the Sun is pretty significantly different from how light is being diffused by the glass of a light bulb. There's a reason why sunlight has a colour temperature of 5500:ish °K rather than several million: because the light we see is produced very close to the surface (the layers below being pretty much completely opaque) through significantly different mechanisms than what's going on in the core.

Either way, the point was that a diffuse light source and a point source produces light of radically different qualities.

Quote:
The amount of light being created never changes. it just gets diffused by the glass. place a bulb around that LED diode and boom, the room now "appears" more illuminated.
Not unless you put out more light, no, but the light source appears less harsh to look at.
Ciaphas Cyne
Moira.
#103 - 2013-09-20 02:27:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Ciaphas Cyne
Quote:
The amount of light being created never changes. it just gets diffused by the glass. place a bulb around that LED diode and boom, the room now "appears" more illuminated.
Not unless you put out more light, no, but the light source appears less harsh to look at.[/quote]

im fine with that! definitely appears less harsh to look at.

oh but fair play i was hasty in comparing the two. im just suggesting that both burn at the center, and its that reaction at the center that is responsible for the light. i understand that the light-bulb itself isn't glowing like the surface of the sun is. i think alot of our issues come from how we are imagining our theoretical light-bulbs.

"buff only the stuff I fly and nerf everything else"

  • you
Ciaphas Cyne
Moira.
#104 - 2013-09-20 02:29:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Ciaphas Cyne


does it suck being so incredibly wrong and not being able to admit it? i admit my mistakes. now its your turn. can we see on pluto gogela?

"buff only the stuff I fly and nerf everything else"

  • you
Johann Rascali
The Milkmen
Sedition.
#105 - 2013-09-20 03:23:26 UTC
Terh Rumnatarn wrote:
What you hear and what you see in EVE is a simulation made by your ship`s computer.

Wasn't it established rather recently in the lore that we use a camera drone?

Blanking signatures doesn't seem to work, so this is here.

Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#106 - 2013-09-20 03:46:22 UTC
There is no light in space lol. You people watch to many movies Big smile

You can see light because its bounce of a object in space moon dust particles rock and son and so on.

THe Hubble telescope show you nice pictures right? But that's because it "traps the light between it"

So you want space. Its possible just make everything black and your done. (even black is no light but it is light)
Josef Djugashvilis
#107 - 2013-09-20 05:25:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
This thread is rapidly becoming, whose ego shines the brightest?

My money is on Tippia.

This is not a signature.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#108 - 2013-09-20 06:33:02 UTC
Ciaphas Cyne wrote:
weve got some seriously deep misunderstandings of how visible light behaves in this thread. for a sci-fi community you all seem to know very little about science.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/03/15/bafact-math-how-bright-is-the-sun-from-pluto/#.UjGJ5saUQgs

read that and learn all about how bright the "darkness of space" is. im kinda lolling at you guys going "we couldnt see our hulls"


I fully support any effort to make EVE feel more real!


I love EvE, because unlike the other MMOs there's always some gold nuggets to learn like this. Even on GD.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#109 - 2013-09-20 14:00:04 UTC
Johann Rascali wrote:
Terh Rumnatarn wrote:
What you hear and what you see in EVE is a simulation made by your ship`s computer.

Wasn't it established rather recently in the lore that we use a camera drone?

Well, the lore concerning camera drones (and their advanced sensor suits allowing us to see far more than the naked eye) has been in place since the beginning.

The only thing that is simulated by our ship computers is audio, to allow the human brain to more intuitively be aware of what is happening around the ship.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#110 - 2013-09-20 14:04:45 UTC
Johan Civire wrote:
There is no light in space lol. You people watch to many movies Big smile

You can see light because its bounce of a object in space moon dust particles rock and son and so on.

THe Hubble telescope show you nice pictures right? But that's because it "traps the light between it"

So you want space. Its possible just make everything black and your done. (even black is no light but it is light)

Johan, if there was no light in space there would be nothing to bounce off of an object.

Yes, light needs something to bounce off to be visible unless you are looking directly at the source, but that isn't the same thing as there being no light in space. Fortunately space is chock full of things for light to bounce off, as well as light sources.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#111 - 2013-09-20 16:02:58 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Johan Civire wrote:
There is no light in space lol. You people watch to many movies Big smile

You can see light because its bounce of a object in space moon dust particles rock and son and so on.

THe Hubble telescope show you nice pictures right? But that's because it "traps the light between it"

So you want space. Its possible just make everything black and your done. (even black is no light but it is light)

Johan, if there was no light in space there would be nothing to bounce off of an object.

Yes, light needs something to bounce off to be visible unless you are looking directly at the source, but that isn't the same thing as there being no light in space. Fortunately space is chock full of things for light to bounce off, as well as light sources.


The sources off light is not visible in or eyes it needs to be bounce of or you can not see it. Or it needs to be direct of you like the stars you see now on earth but the are different in space. I can not explain it because poor English. Go search google for real space pictures made with or own eyes. You be surprise how dark space is and how "uninteresting space is" yes its black very black. The light you see on earth or stars is defriend in "open space" The light you mean is to far away this will fade so there is practical no light in space even its a big open space with many stuff in it.
Zaxix
State War Academy
Caldari State
#112 - 2013-09-20 16:58:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Zaxix
Leto Hallick wrote:
This has been the one visual oddity driving me nuts since I started playing. The size/brightness of the stars based on the distance travelled never seems to change (unless you warp directly to the star).

Our Sun from Neptune (~30 AU), for example, is practically a small dot in the sky.

Yet anywhere you seem to warp within a system in EVE, the star is always the same. It would add such a tremendous sense of scope/distance to warp away from a star and see it shrink to just a burning dot in the sky.

(And for that matter, where are the double binary systems and red-colored stars and brown dwarfs and other fun stuff? Screw the science I want to feel like I'm zipping through exotic solar systems of all types and colors.)

If they did that, you wouldn't be able to see much of anything, because there would be insufficient light.

edit: i see someone else mentions this! sorry for reiterating!

Bokononist

 

Ciaphas Cyne
Moira.
#113 - 2013-09-20 17:01:18 UTC
Johan Civire wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Johan Civire wrote:
There is no light in space lol. You people watch to many movies Big smile

You can see light because its bounce of a object in space moon dust particles rock and son and so on.

THe Hubble telescope show you nice pictures right? But that's because it "traps the light between it"

So you want space. Its possible just make everything black and your done. (even black is no light but it is light)

Johan, if there was no light in space there would be nothing to bounce off of an object.

Yes, light needs something to bounce off to be visible unless you are looking directly at the source, but that isn't the same thing as there being no light in space. Fortunately space is chock full of things for light to bounce off, as well as light sources.


The sources off light is not visible in or eyes it needs to be bounce of or you can not see it. Or it needs to be direct of you like the stars you see now on earth but the are different in space. I can not explain it because poor English. Go search google for real space pictures made with or own eyes. You be surprise how dark space is and how "uninteresting space is" yes its black very black. The light you see on earth or stars is defriend in "open space" The light you mean is to far away this will fade so there is practical no light in space even its a big open space with many stuff in it.



truth. every word.

"buff only the stuff I fly and nerf everything else"

  • you
Ciaphas Cyne
Moira.
#114 - 2013-09-20 17:03:45 UTC
Zaxix wrote:
Leto Hallick wrote:
This has been the one visual oddity driving me nuts since I started playing. The size/brightness of the stars based on the distance travelled never seems to change (unless you warp directly to the star).

Our Sun from Neptune (~30 AU), for example, is practically a small dot in the sky.

Yet anywhere you seem to warp within a system in EVE, the star is always the same. It would add such a tremendous sense of scope/distance to warp away from a star and see it shrink to just a burning dot in the sky.

(And for that matter, where are the double binary systems and red-colored stars and brown dwarfs and other fun stuff? Screw the science I want to feel like I'm zipping through exotic solar systems of all types and colors.)

If they did that, you wouldn't be able to see much of anything, because there would be insufficient light.

edit: i see someone else mentions this! sorry for reiterating!


not only was it mentioned but the general consensus was achieved that distances under 250AU are actually quite bright when using our sun as a model.

"buff only the stuff I fly and nerf everything else"

  • you
Ezslider
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#115 - 2013-09-20 17:08:42 UTC
Holy Christ this thread.

It is no wonder :CCP: doesn't take us seriously.
Zaxix
State War Academy
Caldari State
#116 - 2013-09-20 17:56:39 UTC
Ciaphas Cyne wrote:
not only was it mentioned but the general consensus was achieved that distances under 250AU are actually quite bright when using our sun as a model.

I found this nice comparison chart of illuminance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight#Daylight_intensity_in_different_conditions

The Pluto brightness math works out to ~60 lux (using the article's 250x measure in his actual calculations). On that chart, total overcast at dusk is the closest comparison. This link provides some really nice daylight condition comparisons for those who want more than just words (check the Dusk category, last picture in that section). http://www.itchy-animation.co.uk/tutorials/light03.htm. Definitely brighter than I would have thought.

The better question is: why don't planets orbit the sun, moons orbit the planets, and both rotate on their axes. Let's not forget the POCOs, which are also supposed to orbit.

Bokononist

 

Ciaphas Cyne
Moira.
#117 - 2013-09-20 23:00:35 UTC
Zaxix wrote:
Ciaphas Cyne wrote:
not only was it mentioned but the general consensus was achieved that distances under 250AU are actually quite bright when using our sun as a model.

I found this nice comparison chart of illuminance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight#Daylight_intensity_in_different_conditions

The Pluto brightness math works out to ~60 lux (using the article's 250x measure in his actual calculations). On that chart, total overcast at dusk is the closest comparison. This link provides some really nice daylight condition comparisons for those who want more than just words (check the Dusk category, last picture in that section). http://www.itchy-animation.co.uk/tutorials/light03.htm. Definitely brighter than I would have thought.

The better question is: why don't planets orbit the sun, moons orbit the planets, and both rotate on their axes. Let's not forget the POCOs, which are also supposed to orbit.


thanks for links !

sadly i think CCP has said they cant implement orbiting celestials due to performance concerns. if stationary planets means less lag im ok with that. but i really wouldn't be surprised if alot of the suggestions on this thread get implemented one day when the technology improves. thats the great thing about playing a vibrant living game thats been around for 10 years. we can all sit around and daydream about what EVE 2023 will look like!

"buff only the stuff I fly and nerf everything else"

  • you
Deacon Abox
Black Eagle5
#118 - 2013-09-20 23:29:27 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
SCIENCE!!!!!1


Hey for some reason you guys like blinding people with your overbright sun blooms, and retina searing gas clouds in certain missions. Is that science?

Or how about new mandatory jump gate graphics that cause nausea in many players. Is that a "science" experiment?

What would be wrong with toning down some of the sensory overload graphics currently in the game?Straight

CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting off button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.