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Ganking too easy?
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Aldus Dumbledore
The Covenant of Blood
#1 - 2013-09-11 00:44:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Aldus Dumbledore
Your thoughts capsuleers:

Ganking too easy? A few million isk each ships take down PvE rigged ships for hundreds of millions in profit?

I got no problem with that, makes you keep your eyes open.

The question is the kill rights afterwards. I think you should be given more than a chance to simply shoot a Catalyst or two. Why should the gankers be able to so simply profit targeting missioners in the middle of a mission?

How about rights to destroy ship(s) until 10% of the ship value lost has been destroyed as payback? (*percentage edited from feedback/rethinking). The idea is NOT to grant a bonus for *cargo* lost. If you lose a cargo due to AFK or improper tank that should be your penalty. This is about specifically dealing with gankers who target quality missioning ships in High Sec for profit.

Yes,I think the ganked should take care of their own business. But shooting one or two catalysts isn't even worth the ammo let alone the time. The only defense against ganking should not be flying a terrible ship in High Sec.

/discuss


ps in before tears yadda yadda, I just wanna get my own legitimate satisfaction.

pps. Further edits for clarification.
Anne McDonald
Sandman are here
#2 - 2013-09-11 04:22:46 UTC
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
Your thoughts capsuleers:

Ganking too easy? A few million isk each ships take down PvE rigged ships for hundreds of millions in profit?

I got no problem with that, makes you keep your eyes open.

The question is the kill rights afterwards. I think you should be given more than a chance to simply shoot a Catalyst or two. Why should the gankers be able to so simply profit?

How about rights to destroy ships until 50% of the value lost until payback is achieved?

Yes,I think the ganked should take care of their own business. But shooting one or two catalysts isn't even worth the ammo let alone the time.

/discuss


ps in before tears yadda yadda, I just wanna get my own legitimate satisfaction.


I am struggling to find the point of your post, in one hand you are asking if ganking is too easy and on the other you are talking about the way killrights work and getting payback. I will try and answer the post as best I can though.

Ganking too easy? Destroyers (mainly the catalyst and thrasher) can be equipped to weild devastating power 600-800 dps fully gank fit with decent skills and cost around 3mill fully fit so multiple destroyers soon dish out the dps. Ganking could be easy yes but a lot of the larger isk ganks (50ish bill) take planning and good execution as these guys are usually cautious. even if they nerfed the destroyers so it needed 100 catalysts alot of your deadspace fit mission runners drop around 500+ mill still meaning profit in the gank so the problem is irrelevant.

Kill rights... They kill you, and you get to kill them if you choose to shoot at their gank catalyst that is up to you nothing is wrong with the kill right system as it is.

Lots of love,

Your friendly neighborhood ganker.
Donbe Scurred
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-09-11 04:51:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Donbe Scurred
KILLMAIL LINK REMOVED - CCP FALCON

For what its worth it looks like they are pretty good at what they do.Pirate

I think ganking is pretty balanced actually, it is hard to do solo if the target is properly tanked yet still possible if you find the right idiot who does not have the proper tank/tactics for what he is flying.

Further, ganking like many other things in the game is much easier and fun if done in properly organized groups.

I would guess there was at least two others involved in this gank so that means six people to gank one cruiser (that was poorly fit), that seems pretty fair.

If those two bling mods didn't drop then they would have not made the "hundreds of millions" so they got lucky this time, it doesn't always work out that way.

As far as kill rights go, what Anne said
Tysinger
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#4 - 2013-09-11 06:13:08 UTC
Tardboi OP
Aldus Dumbledore
The Covenant of Blood
#5 - 2013-09-11 07:00:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Aldus Dumbledore
Anne McDonald wrote:
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
Your thoughts capsuleers:

Ganking too easy? A few million isk each ships take down PvE rigged ships for hundreds of millions in profit?

I got no problem with that, makes you keep your eyes open.

The question is the kill rights afterwards. I think you should be given more than a chance to simply shoot a Catalyst or two. Why should the gankers be able to so simply profit?

How about rights to destroy ships until 50% of the value lost until payback is achieved?

Yes,I think the ganked should take care of their own business. But shooting one or two catalysts isn't even worth the ammo let alone the time.

/discuss


ps in before tears yadda yadda, I just wanna get my own legitimate satisfaction.


I am struggling to find the point of your post, in one hand you are asking if ganking is too easy and on the other you are talking about the way killrights work and getting payback. I will try and answer the post as best I can though.

Ganking too easy? Destroyers (mainly the catalyst and thrasher) can be equipped to weild devastating power 600-800 dps fully gank fit with decent skills and cost around 3mill fully fit so multiple destroyers soon dish out the dps. Ganking could be easy yes but a lot of the larger isk ganks (50ish bill) take planning and good execution as these guys are usually cautious. even if they nerfed the destroyers so it needed 100 catalysts alot of your deadspace fit mission runners drop around 500+ mill still meaning profit in the gank so the problem is irrelevant.

Kill rights... They kill you, and you get to kill them if you choose to shoot at their gank catalyst that is up to you nothing is wrong with the kill right system as it is.

Lots of love,

Your friendly neighborhood ganker.


How are Kill Rights balanced when an Alt can be trained to be gank proficient in 1 month and will never fly other than gank fit and as cheap as possible ships?

The "gankee" is only given the right to destroy 3 million isk ships x1. The Ganker took advantage of game mechanics and numbers to gank a ship hundreds of times that in value.

I am not saying it should be more difficult to gank, I am fine with the game as it is. What is a broken mechanic to me is that due to the use of cheap alts and cheap ships/fits the economic equation greatly favors the ganker.

I am not asking for concord to hold my hand. But the simple fact of the matter is that 3 mill isk ships are throw away to us all and getting to destroy one is hardly compensation, nor even worthwhile to track down. This mechanic is what the ganker is counting on for his success and is hardly a deterrent.

ps Hey, props for a successful little op
Aldus Dumbledore
The Covenant of Blood
#6 - 2013-09-11 07:05:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Aldus Dumbledore
duplicate post
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-09-11 07:26:14 UTC  |  Edited by: IIshira
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:

A few million isk each ships take down PvE rigged ships for hundreds of millions in profit?

How about rights to destroy ships until 50% of the value lost until payback is achieved?


Okay what few million ISK ships are ganking for hundreds of millions in ISK profit? To the best of my knowledge destroyers are normally used to gank barges and T1 industrials. A barge isn't going to drop that much and if you're putting over 100 mil cargo in a T1 industrial well you asked to be ganked. If you're talking about ganking mission ships they would likely be in Tornados that cost more than a few million.

On the other point you do realize that these suicide gankers are often pilots with low sec status and/or ganking alts. So how do you plan to gank 50% of the value when they're flying destroyers? These are not likely carebears you're going to catch in highsec running missions.
Grunanca
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2013-09-11 07:44:06 UTC
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
Anne McDonald wrote:
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
Your thoughts capsuleers:

Ganking too easy? A few million isk each ships take down PvE rigged ships for hundreds of millions in profit?

I got no problem with that, makes you keep your eyes open.

The question is the kill rights afterwards. I think you should be given more than a chance to simply shoot a Catalyst or two. Why should the gankers be able to so simply profit?

How about rights to destroy ships until 50% of the value lost until payback is achieved?

Yes,I think the ganked should take care of their own business. But shooting one or two catalysts isn't even worth the ammo let alone the time.

/discuss


ps in before tears yadda yadda, I just wanna get my own legitimate satisfaction.


I am struggling to find the point of your post, in one hand you are asking if ganking is too easy and on the other you are talking about the way killrights work and getting payback. I will try and answer the post as best I can though.

Ganking too easy? Destroyers (mainly the catalyst and thrasher) can be equipped to weild devastating power 600-800 dps fully gank fit with decent skills and cost around 3mill fully fit so multiple destroyers soon dish out the dps. Ganking could be easy yes but a lot of the larger isk ganks (50ish bill) take planning and good execution as these guys are usually cautious. even if they nerfed the destroyers so it needed 100 catalysts alot of your deadspace fit mission runners drop around 500+ mill still meaning profit in the gank so the problem is irrelevant.

Kill rights... They kill you, and you get to kill them if you choose to shoot at their gank catalyst that is up to you nothing is wrong with the kill right system as it is.

Lots of love,

Your friendly neighborhood ganker.


How are Kill Rights balanced when an Alt can be trained to be gank proficient in 1 month and will never fly other than gank fit but as cheap as possible ships?

The "gankee" is only given the right to destroy 3 million isk ships x1. The Ganker took advantage of game mechanics and numbers to gank a ship hundreds of times that in value.

I am not saying it should be more difficult to gank, I am fine with the game as it is. What is a broken mechanic to me is that due to the use of cheap alts and cheap ships/fits the economic equation greatly favors the ganker.

I am not asking for concord to hold my hand. But the simple fact of the matter is that 3 mill isk ships are throw away to us all and getting to destroy one is hardly compensation, nor even worthwhile to track down. This mechanic is what the ganker is counting on for his success and is hardly a deterrent.

ps Hey, props for a successful little op


With that logic, you can just fly destroyers all the time, and he cant gank anything of value. Its your fault for flying too expensive ships, not his for being smart.
Aldus Dumbledore
The Covenant of Blood
#9 - 2013-09-11 07:53:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Aldus Dumbledore
IIshira wrote:
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:

A few million isk each ships take down PvE rigged ships for hundreds of millions in profit?

How about rights to destroy ships until 50% of the value lost until payback is achieved?


Okay what few million ISK ships are ganking for hundreds of millions in ISK profit? To the best of my knowledge destroyers are normally used to gank barges and T1 industrials. A barge isn't going to drop that much and if you're putting over 100 mil cargo in a T1 industrial well you asked to be ganked. If you're talking about ganking mission ships they would likely be in Tornados that cost more than a few million.

On the other point you do realize that these suicide gankers are often pilots with low sec status and/or ganking alts. So how do you plan to gank 50% of the value when they're flying destroyers? These are not likely carebears you're going to catch in highsec running missions.


Precisely the point. They are alts flying cheap ships. You get a kill right but it is absolutely worthless. There is no corp with assets to War Dec, they are never in anything worth shooting. As it stands it is win-win for them.

Lets pick a lower number, say, 10% of the value of the gank. So if a one bill isk ship gets ganked, the "gankee" gets to kill 100 mill in ships total spread over the number of gankers involved.

This way, instead of the ganker having not the slightest worry or inconvenience other than losing one low value throw away ship, he would have to worry about losing many of his cheap ships to someone determined to get pay back.

This way the ganked would be amply motivated to track them down rather, the gankers are counting on it not being worth anyone's trouble as the situation stands.
Aldus Dumbledore
The Covenant of Blood
#10 - 2013-09-11 07:55:30 UTC
Grunanca wrote:
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
Anne McDonald wrote:
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
Your thoughts capsuleers:

Ganking too easy? A few million isk each ships take down PvE rigged ships for hundreds of millions in profit?

I got no problem with that, makes you keep your eyes open.

The question is the kill rights afterwards. I think you should be given more than a chance to simply shoot a Catalyst or two. Why should the gankers be able to so simply profit?

How about rights to destroy ships until 50% of the value lost until payback is achieved?

Yes,I think the ganked should take care of their own business. But shooting one or two catalysts isn't even worth the ammo let alone the time.

/discuss


ps in before tears yadda yadda, I just wanna get my own legitimate satisfaction.


I am struggling to find the point of your post, in one hand you are asking if ganking is too easy and on the other you are talking about the way killrights work and getting payback. I will try and answer the post as best I can though.

Ganking too easy? Destroyers (mainly the catalyst and thrasher) can be equipped to weild devastating power 600-800 dps fully gank fit with decent skills and cost around 3mill fully fit so multiple destroyers soon dish out the dps. Ganking could be easy yes but a lot of the larger isk ganks (50ish bill) take planning and good execution as these guys are usually cautious. even if they nerfed the destroyers so it needed 100 catalysts alot of your deadspace fit mission runners drop around 500+ mill still meaning profit in the gank so the problem is irrelevant.

Kill rights... They kill you, and you get to kill them if you choose to shoot at their gank catalyst that is up to you nothing is wrong with the kill right system as it is.

Lots of love,

Your friendly neighborhood ganker.


How are Kill Rights balanced when an Alt can be trained to be gank proficient in 1 month and will never fly other than gank fit but as cheap as possible ships?

The "gankee" is only given the right to destroy 3 million isk ships x1. The Ganker took advantage of game mechanics and numbers to gank a ship hundreds of times that in value.

I am not saying it should be more difficult to gank, I am fine with the game as it is. What is a broken mechanic to me is that due to the use of cheap alts and cheap ships/fits the economic equation greatly favors the ganker.

I am not asking for concord to hold my hand. But the simple fact of the matter is that 3 mill isk ships are throw away to us all and getting to destroy one is hardly compensation, nor even worthwhile to track down. This mechanic is what the ganker is counting on for his success and is hardly a deterrent.

ps Hey, props for a successful little op


With that logic, you can just fly destroyers all the time, and he cant gank anything of value. Its your fault for flying too expensive ships, not his for being smart.


This is how sociopaths commonly view things. "It's their fault people worked hard for something. I just steal stuff because I can."
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-09-11 08:01:41 UTC
Okay before we get into the whole mental illness topic remember this is just a game and not real life. It's also a game where PVP is encouraged. Often this PVP is not even close to fair. This is also encouraged.

To the "if I lose a billion ISK I should be able to gank 100 million" idea it's not practical since if the gankers are flying destroyers you're going to busy trying to get 100 mil worth.
Barzai Mekhar
True Confusion
#12 - 2013-09-11 08:04:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Barzai Mekhar
My thoughts on the issue:

1. Gankpower/Cost ration on destroyers
My subjective impression is that the gankpower of destroyers in relation to their cost is excessive. Note that I'm fine with the general ability of small ships to gank larger ships (especially industrial vessels with limited defence); I would oppose any movement to make mining ships or haulers ungankable by e.g. increasing their tank to silly levels. However I believe currently the ratio between potential damage caused in a successful gank vs. the loss incured in a failed gank is heavily scewed to favor the ganker.

Using killrights, tanky fits or "on grid" defenders prevents the loss for the attacked party, but does not cause any real harm to the attacker, other than possibly wounded pride. The same can be achieved (usually at a lower cost) by simply moving into a less populated system. Personally, I dislike game mechanisms that favor running away from a challenge instead of facing it.

Note that this point also affects the issue of highsec wardecs by "alt ganker corps". To be specific, I'm talking about corps typically consisting of 1-10 chars, low-skilled, flying only cheap gank fitted ships, using out of corp alts for hauling etc. Those alts are able to wardec industrial corps with impunity, potentially causing massive damage to the defenders, yet risking very little in turn.

Organizing defensive measures against that kind of attacker is a wast of time; even if the defenders manage to catch them "with their pants down" and wipe out a ganking fleet, they're unlikely to cause the damage inflicted upon them by loosing a single industrial vessel. To make matters worse, the attackers are usually fully aware of this situation and use it to extort money in order to drop the wardec ('you can't hurt us anyway, so you better pay up'). Again, in the current situation, the best response is to just avoid the wardeccing corp; if higher ship costs forced the attacker to field more valueable fleets, defensive measures might be a real alternative.

Note that I'm not saying these changes wouldn't require further adjustments in order to make sure ganking remains a valid playstyle; if the numbers were adjusted to make sure that gankers had to field more expensive fleets, we'd also need some balancing factor that made sure that a successful gank awards a sufficient reward (other than the victims tears); maybe pirate corps offering bounty missions on barges?

2. Ganks happen to fast; Concord responds to fast
In the current situation, concord responds rapidly in highsec. While this might seem to be positive for the attacked party, I believe it enforces a gamedesign that is actually detrimental to the defender. Due to concord response times, any gank has to happen extremely fast, in a 5-10 second window. This makes it difficult to field any active defensive measures against a gank.

If the numbers were changed in a way that caused a gank to take longer, and concord response time slowed down accordingly, little would change for the unprotected weak gank target; they'd still die, only now they'd have more time to see their lives passing in front of their eyes Blink However, it would allow for a defensive unit stationed on grid to stop the gank in progress. This would in turn allow for interesting opportunities for "emergent gameplay", e.g. mercenaries might offer to protect highly frequented belts "for a fee", and mining corps might be encouraged to recruit a security devision into their corporate structure.

3. Killrights
The killright system is of very limited use when trying to exact vengeance. Ganking alts will rarely fly anything that warrants activating a killright. Professional chars with multiple years of training are more likely to fly something worth killing, but I suspect the vast majority of those gankers is -10 anyway. Unfortunately I don't really see an easy way to improve this situation. The suggestion to make killrights last for X ISK damage caused instead of a single kill might be an improvement, as gankers would soon find themselves in the situation that anyone could take proactive action against them as soon as they enter a system... While the kills still wouldn't hurt the ganker much, it would change killrights into a defensive tool.


Edit:
And now after typing this far-too-long reply I have to see that the OP already played the socipath card and invalidated the entire discussion. Good job Evil
Aldus Dumbledore
The Covenant of Blood
#13 - 2013-09-11 08:07:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Aldus Dumbledore
IIshira wrote:
Okay before we get into the whole mental illness topic remember this is just a game and not real life. It's also a game where PVP is encouraged. Often this PVP is not even close to fair. This is also encouraged.

To the "if I lose a billion ISK I should be able to gank 100 million" idea it's not practical since if the gankers are flying destroyers you're going to busy trying to get 100 mil worth.


Please explain how the current system is "practical"? All it does is reward the ganker and provide nothing for the ganked.

We can assume that CCP endorses the current status quo, of course. However, the point of this thread is to generate discussion as to whether a better mechanic might serve the Eve community.

I trust you would find that I would happily hunt down those 30 catalysts (for example) that I had the rights to destroy if I had the opportunity. I would find that a quite appropriate use of my time.


ps. Human beings play games and every type of personality is present, some healthy, some not so much. Just because it is a game that does not mean that everyone checks their true self at the door.
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-09-11 08:13:57 UTC
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
IIshira wrote:
Okay before we get into the whole mental illness topic remember this is just a game and not real life. It's also a game where PVP is encouraged. Often this PVP is not even close to fair. This is also encouraged.

To the "if I lose a billion ISK I should be able to gank 100 million" idea it's not practical since if the gankers are flying destroyers you're going to busy trying to get 100 mil worth.


Please explain how the current system is "practical"? All it does is reward the ganker and provide nothing for the ganked.

We can assume that CCP endorses the current status quo, of course. However, the point of this thread is to generate discussion as to whether a better mechanic might serve the Eve community.

I trust you would find that I would happily hunt down those 30 catalysts (for example) that I had the rights to destroy if I had the opportunity.


See you're expecting fair recourse for being attacked. This is not how Eve works and it never will work that way. Yes I've been pretty much gang raped at warp gates when I was in my lone battlecruiser by 15 ships. Was it fair? No! Did I get revenge or recourse? No.

The simple answer to ganking is don't make yourself a target.
Aldus Dumbledore
The Covenant of Blood
#15 - 2013-09-11 08:22:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Aldus Dumbledore
IIshira wrote:
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
IIshira wrote:
Okay before we get into the whole mental illness topic remember this is just a game and not real life. It's also a game where PVP is encouraged. Often this PVP is not even close to fair. This is also encouraged.

To the "if I lose a billion ISK I should be able to gank 100 million" idea it's not practical since if the gankers are flying destroyers you're going to busy trying to get 100 mil worth.


Please explain how the current system is "practical"? All it does is reward the ganker and provide nothing for the ganked.

We can assume that CCP endorses the current status quo, of course. However, the point of this thread is to generate discussion as to whether a better mechanic might serve the Eve community.

I trust you would find that I would happily hunt down those 30 catalysts (for example) that I had the rights to destroy if I had the opportunity.


See you're expecting fair recourse for being attacked. This is not how Eve works and it never will work that way. Yes I've been pretty much gang raped at warp gates when I was in my lone battlecruiser by 15 ships. Was it fair? No! Did I get revenge or recourse? No.

The simple answer to ganking is don't make yourself a target.


I think you mistake me. My old corp was a tiny low sec one surrounded by some of the largest ones in the game. We happily run their camps (with mixed results) and pick off the occasional kill to be proud of. I am not expecting fair recourse for the routine blobbing we experience in low/null.

This discussion is about a current game mechanic in high sec that seems "broken" to me as it is so heavily tilted in the Gankers favor from an economic standpoint.

"Kill Rights" are broken as they provide nothing for the ganked when ganker gangs can operate so cheaply as to make them essentially immune to the mechanic.

Threads like this become open letters to CCP. If they have put this mechanic in the game why not beef it up so that the ganked actually make use of it?
culo duro
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2013-09-11 08:30:42 UTC
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
IIshira wrote:
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
IIshira wrote:
Okay before we get into the whole mental illness topic remember this is just a game and not real life. It's also a game where PVP is encouraged. Often this PVP is not even close to fair. This is also encouraged.

To the "if I lose a billion ISK I should be able to gank 100 million" idea it's not practical since if the gankers are flying destroyers you're going to busy trying to get 100 mil worth.


Please explain how the current system is "practical"? All it does is reward the ganker and provide nothing for the ganked.

We can assume that CCP endorses the current status quo, of course. However, the point of this thread is to generate discussion as to whether a better mechanic might serve the Eve community.

I trust you would find that I would happily hunt down those 30 catalysts (for example) that I had the rights to destroy if I had the opportunity.


See you're expecting fair recourse for being attacked. This is not how Eve works and it never will work that way. Yes I've been pretty much gang raped at warp gates when I was in my lone battlecruiser by 15 ships. Was it fair? No! Did I get revenge or recourse? No.

The simple answer to ganking is don't make yourself a target.


I think you mistake me. My old corp was a tiny low sec one surrounded by some of the largest ones in the game. We happily run their camps (with mixed results) and pick off the occasional kill to be proud of. I am not expecting fair recourse for the routine blobbing we experience in low/null.

This discussion is about a current game mechanic in high sec that seems "broken" to me as it is so heavily tilted in the Gankers favor from an economic standpoint.

"Kill Rights" are broken as they provide nothing for the ganked when ganker gangs can operate so cheaply as to make them essentially immune to the mechanic.

Threads like this become open letters to CCP. If they have put this mechanic in the game why not beef it up so that the ganked actually make use of it?


The problem isn't that a ganker ganks, cause he's losing sec status... the problem is that there's an option to make throw away gank alts.

Besides you're not allowed to delete any toon with a negative sec status.

I've starting blogging http://www.epvpc.blogspot.com 
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-09-11 08:32:39 UTC
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
IIshira wrote:
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
IIshira wrote:
Okay before we get into the whole mental illness topic remember this is just a game and not real life. It's also a game where PVP is encouraged. Often this PVP is not even close to fair. This is also encouraged.

To the "if I lose a billion ISK I should be able to gank 100 million" idea it's not practical since if the gankers are flying destroyers you're going to busy trying to get 100 mil worth.


Please explain how the current system is "practical"? All it does is reward the ganker and provide nothing for the ganked.

We can assume that CCP endorses the current status quo, of course. However, the point of this thread is to generate discussion as to whether a better mechanic might serve the Eve community.

I trust you would find that I would happily hunt down those 30 catalysts (for example) that I had the rights to destroy if I had the opportunity.


See you're expecting fair recourse for being attacked. This is not how Eve works and it never will work that way. Yes I've been pretty much gang raped at warp gates when I was in my lone battlecruiser by 15 ships. Was it fair? No! Did I get revenge or recourse? No.

The simple answer to ganking is don't make yourself a target.


I think you mistake me. My old corp was a tiny low sec one surrounded by some of the largest ones in the game. We happily run their camps (with mixed results) and pick off the occasional kill to be proud of. I am not expecting fair recourse for the routine blobbing we experience in low/null.

This discussion is about a current game mechanic in high sec that seems "broken" to me as it is so heavily tilted in the Gankers favor from an economic standpoint.

"Kill Rights" are broken as they provide nothing for the ganked when ganker gangs can operate so cheaply as to make them essentially immune to the mechanic.

Threads like this become open letters to CCP. If they have put this mechanic in the game why not beef it up so that the ganked actually make use of it?


I just made mention of my lowsec gate losses as a reference to PVP not being fair in Eve. Perhaps I caused confusion by doing this.

My point is that when someone ganks you in highsec nothing will get you retribution. They're going to come out of lowsec, undock in destroyers, gank you, then go back to lowsec.

I think the point I'm trying to make is the best bet is to AVOID being ganked. Fit a tank on your mining barge, don't haul over 100 mil in a T1 hauler etc
Shederov Blood
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
#18 - 2013-09-11 08:46:56 UTC
The way killrights used to work, gankers would often fly more expensive ships around in between ganks, and occasionally have to fight off former victims coming after them for revenge. When they announced the changes to killrights designed to make it easier to get revenge on gankers, many of us predicted it would only result in most of the ganking being relegated to -10's and very specific characters who would fly nothing but gank ships. We warned you then, but were met with "HAHA GANKER TEARS, NO MORE EASY MODE FOR YOU."

Also, OP reminds me of Marlona Sky a bit.

Who put the goat in there?
Aldus Dumbledore
The Covenant of Blood
#19 - 2013-09-11 08:49:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Aldus Dumbledore
IIshira wrote:
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
IIshira wrote:
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
IIshira wrote:
Okay before we get into the whole mental illness topic remember this is just a game and not real life. It's also a game where PVP is encouraged. Often this PVP is not even close to fair. This is also encouraged.

To the "if I lose a billion ISK I should be able to gank 100 million" idea it's not practical since if the gankers are flying destroyers you're going to busy trying to get 100 mil worth.


Please explain how the current system is "practical"? All it does is reward the ganker and provide nothing for the ganked.

We can assume that CCP endorses the current status quo, of course. However, the point of this thread is to generate discussion as to whether a better mechanic might serve the Eve community.

I trust you would find that I would happily hunt down those 30 catalysts (for example) that I had the rights to destroy if I had the opportunity.


See you're expecting fair recourse for being attacked. This is not how Eve works and it never will work that way. Yes I've been pretty much gang raped at warp gates when I was in my lone battlecruiser by 15 ships. Was it fair? No! Did I get revenge or recourse? No.

The simple answer to ganking is don't make yourself a target.


I think you mistake me. My old corp was a tiny low sec one surrounded by some of the largest ones in the game. We happily run their camps (with mixed results) and pick off the occasional kill to be proud of. I am not expecting fair recourse for the routine blobbing we experience in low/null.

This discussion is about a current game mechanic in high sec that seems "broken" to me as it is so heavily tilted in the Gankers favor from an economic standpoint.

"Kill Rights" are broken as they provide nothing for the ganked when ganker gangs can operate so cheaply as to make them essentially immune to the mechanic.

Threads like this become open letters to CCP. If they have put this mechanic in the game why not beef it up so that the ganked actually make use of it?


I just made mention of my lowsec gate losses as a reference to PVP not being fair in Eve. Perhaps I caused confusion by doing this.

My point is that when someone ganks you in highsec nothing will get you retribution. They're going to come out of lowsec, undock in destroyers, gank you, then go back to lowsec.

I think the point I'm trying to make is the best bet is to AVOID being ganked. Fit a tank on your mining barge, don't haul over 100 mil in a T1 hauler etc


Couldn't agree more that it is best to avoid ganking through proper fitting and piloting. That goes without saying.

The question is: Why do Kill Rights exist if they are useless?

I would happily take matters into my own hands but it is useless. Being able to destroy the cheap ship of a purpose built alt in not even better than nothing as you would have to take the time to track it down. The ganked is actively penalized throughout as the situation stands.
Kaivar Lancer
Doomheim
#20 - 2013-09-11 08:59:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaivar Lancer
OP has a good point. As it is, the killright system is very asymmetric and favours the low-cost ganker. If my ganker's modus operandi is to zerg with low-cost destroyers, I should be able to retaliate with an anti-zerg strategy and blow up god-knows-how-many destroyers.
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