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GM clarification on rewording of the Terms of Service

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Ansa Lanka
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#341 - 2013-09-11 16:24:19 UTC
I believe that GM Karidor should be banned for impersonating the people who can actually change the ToS.
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#342 - 2013-09-11 16:25:11 UTC
I am impersonating representative of representative of CONCORD. Sue me.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Kat Ayclism
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#343 - 2013-09-11 16:25:26 UTC
Start a corp with the most lax recruitment standards ever (use reddit, lel). Ask for people's alts ingame when applying. Petition every last one of them. Roll in tears.
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#344 - 2013-09-11 16:25:52 UTC
I just thought about it a bit, and I'm not sure that safari and wardec alts will necessarily be affected so much. You can, with depressingly high odds, simply apply to a lot of corps blindly, get accepted, and do whatever.

I would also be interested to know where something like this falls: tl;dr, using pick-up artist techniques to sweet-talk your way into corps.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#345 - 2013-09-11 16:27:52 UTC
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
The funny part about all of this is that for many of us it was the meta game that brought us to eve in the first place. I never heard of eve until I read something in the news about these guys (Guiding Hand?) infiltrating a corp, stealing all of its isk and then killing off its CEO. It was that story that brought me to eve and i'm sure there was more then a little impersonation, scamming and lying going on there. And once people actually find eve IMO its certainly not the actual eve game play that keeps them here. Push approach, push orbit - shoot red x, move on to next x - is not exactly exciting game play. Rather its the meta game that makes eve compelling. Without the meta game, eve is boring to its core.

I know that ccp has been on the path of making this game "more accessible" in their eyes - e.g. eliminating can flipping, telling you how to fit and fly your ship by giving it defined roles, dumbing down scanning, etc... Each of these changes have been relatively small steps in and of themselves, but in aggregate they show CCP's distrust of the sandbox. Yet despite everything, the meta game remained unchanged, and was still a draw for eve. Now they are changing it all up. Its a shame really. But nothing lasts for ever.



You can still do that! Just don't say you're the CEO's alt to get in.

That apparently is bad.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#346 - 2013-09-11 16:29:43 UTC
I just realised that i should be banned,
because i was impersonating the resident outlaw of Hek.
I didn't research if there already was somebody claiming that title. :(
Seras VictoriaX
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#347 - 2013-09-11 16:31:04 UTC
Aryth wrote:
Yeah, I tend to agree. Can we get someone more senior in CCP to chime in here? This has descended into bizzaro land at this point.

+1

This is getting insane.

Can we also get some more CSM posts in this thread?

-Thank you
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#348 - 2013-09-11 16:35:57 UTC
Dersen Lowery wrote:
I just thought about it a bit, and I'm not sure that safari and wardec alts will necessarily be affected so much. You can, with depressingly high odds, simply apply to a lot of corps blindly, get accepted, and do whatever.

I would also be interested to know where something like this falls: tl;dr, using pick-up artist techniques to sweet-talk your way into corps.


It will depend if CCP think you should state who you are. If not then it should pass. If not, well they can claim you are impersonating a newbie...
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#349 - 2013-09-11 16:36:32 UTC
Seras VictoriaX wrote:
Aryth wrote:
Yeah, I tend to agree. Can we get someone more senior in CCP to chime in here? This has descended into bizzaro land at this point.

+1

This is getting insane.

Can we also get some more CSM posts in this thread?

-Thank you


CSM members probably don't want to be banned for impersonating a player group whose opinion the GMs actually care about.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#350 - 2013-09-11 16:39:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanh'rhh
Can we get the GM team banned for misrepresenting CCP as a company who don't want a game that involves any lying in any way?

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#351 - 2013-09-11 16:45:53 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Utremi Fasolasi wrote:
Varius Xeral wrote:
Utterly pointless hand-waving; might as well have not posted anything.

The new wording does not at all reflect past policy with reference to representing yourself as a member of a group. Come back and try again when you've actually addressed the community's concerns.


How would you know when the ongoings in petitions are not released to outside parties?


There is this place where a lot of us post about EVE outside of EVE where we can freely discuss such things.


Several of them actually. Encourage all to visit them to get the real info that CCP refuses to provide, even if it is critical to making a decision about paying RL money for their services.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#352 - 2013-09-11 16:51:01 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Dersen Lowery wrote:
I just thought about it a bit, and I'm not sure that safari and wardec alts will necessarily be affected so much. You can, with depressingly high odds, simply apply to a lot of corps blindly, get accepted, and do whatever.

I would also be interested to know where something like this falls: tl;dr, using pick-up artist techniques to sweet-talk your way into corps.

It will depend if CCP think you should state who you are. If not then it should pass. If not, well they can claim you are impersonating a newbie...

Oh my, yes.

I must keep this in mind if ever someone does this to my corp/

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#353 - 2013-09-11 16:52:29 UTC
I mean, many of the events that caused the largest influx of players to Eve online (i.e. made the news) were relating to scams and meta-gaming that is now bannable under the TOS.

If you can't see why your player-base is completely up in arms that you're now banning the very same behaviour that made them subscribe in the first place, you have a huge issue.

I guess I wonder less and less why Soundwave leaped off the boat, he smelt smoke.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Orakkus
ImperiaI Federation
Goonswarm Federation
#354 - 2013-09-11 16:56:05 UTC
Seras VictoriaX wrote:
Aryth wrote:
Yeah, I tend to agree. Can we get someone more senior in CCP to chime in here? This has descended into bizzaro land at this point.

+1

This is getting insane.

Can we also get some more CSM posts in this thread?

-Thank you


+1 to both of these statements. The GM responses are not what we should be hearing.

He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander
BadAssMcKill
Aliastra
#355 - 2013-09-11 17:03:52 UTC
Foot meet grave
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#356 - 2013-09-11 17:03:53 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
I mean, many of the events that caused the largest influx of players to Eve online (i.e. made the news) were relating to scams and meta-gaming that is now bannable under the TOS.

If you can't see why your player-base is completely up in arms that you're now banning the very same behaviour that made them subscribe in the first place, you have a huge issue.

I guess I wonder less and less why Soundwave leaped off the boat, he smelt smoke.

Maybe he was about to get caught for impersonating someone

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#357 - 2013-09-11 17:05:47 UTC
Orakkus wrote:
Seras VictoriaX wrote:
Aryth wrote:
Yeah, I tend to agree. Can we get someone more senior in CCP to chime in here? This has descended into bizzaro land at this point.

This is getting insane.

Can we also get some more CSM posts in this thread?

-Thank you

+1 to both of these statements. The GM responses are not what we should be hearing.

I think they've clarified that you scammers, yes you badguy scammers, are screwed.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#358 - 2013-09-11 17:05:55 UTC
GM Grimmi wrote:
Greetings pilots,


We would like to address your concerns regarding the update to article 8 of our TOS that was published yesterday. Some basic information on how we deal with issues that come up regarding impersonation is therefore appropriate.

All cases are investigated individually on a case by case basis. If there are complications or difficulties in reaching a solution cases are moved to senior game masters, which happens a lot with the impersonation issues that are reported to us. There are no magic catch-all rules and policies to cover every eventuality so they must interpret the rules we have in place and apply them to the issue at hand in order to keep the peace. For all practical purposes there has been no change in how impersonation issues will be handled compared to the last few years. The TOS update reflects the way reported cases of impersonation have been handled by Customer Support for a long time. The rules applied have been buried in our naming policy and EULA but have now been placed in plain view in order to better help players to make decisions on how they interact with one another.

As cases are investigated GMs look at the information that is available, one of the important considerations being the intent behind a player’s actions. Benevolent roleplaying of NPC entities may not be considered to warrant action in regards to impersonation while malicious activity employing such trickery will not be tolerated.

One concern is that we have pretty much banned all scams in EVE. Clearly, this is not the case.


Thank you and fly safe.


where exactly have you made this clear?

rules should be simple and easy to follow, not open to interpretation like you guys seem to think

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg
Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#359 - 2013-09-11 17:09:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Zagdul
CCP has basically written in the rules of entrapment into the game.

Which is something we use daily as a source of income to scam people out of their money and designed to protect the dumb.

When it would have been easier to just put in the TOS: No using CCP servers or resources to impersonate a player, corporation alliance, in-game entity or character on an account you do not own or represent. Representation is defined as membership to an organization within the game which are player owned. All characters and accounts can be linked through your account management page.

Isn't this site supposed to be SSO?


@CCP GM's: You're banning and making 'outlaws' of the people who keep you employed.

v0v.

Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement
Heimdallofasgard
Ministry of Furious Retribution
Fraternity.
#360 - 2013-09-11 17:14:16 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
I mean, many of the events that caused the largest influx of players to Eve online (i.e. made the news) were relating to scams and meta-gaming that is now bannable under the TOS.

If you can't see why your player-base is completely up in arms that you're now banning the very same behaviour that made them subscribe in the first place, you have a huge issue.

I guess I wonder less and less why Soundwave leaped off the boat, he smelt smoke.


QFT

Also: Karidor: I'd stop impersonating someone who makes decisions on the ToS, it's bannable now :3