Player Features and Ideas Discussion

You are wrong.

Hml drakes were modified to have 10% less raw missile dps and gained from 8.75 to 9 effective launchers with kinetic ammo. Simple math gives us 355 dps for a pre-nerf hml drake with 2 BCS and navy scourge ammo. Your light drone dps is irrelevant at 70km. A perfect skill pilot could reach ~70km hml range but in fleet engagements the fc would have to more realistically stay at 60 or under to apply full dps (lol drake pilots having all 5 skills). Similarly in a fleet engagement CFC drakes sacrificed a large amount of tank and only had around 55k EHP prelinks in order to fit cap mods so they could MWD around.

Right now today a CFC megathron gets 385 railgun dps at 72+39 with CN thorium and an optimal script, beating the old drake at its best range with only a single damage mod. The megathron can also continue engaging all the way out to 150km and its dps is going to get far higher than the old drake's if it's any closer than 70km since it can use better ammo and its superior drone bandwidth.

It also has almost triple the EHP of the old kiting drake fit that 'totally made no sacrifices by fitting CCC rigs and a cap power relay'.

In conclusion, you are completely full of ****.

One change I would support is to make it so that T3's could not be cloaky-nully. Nullification is bad enough, but combined with cloaky warpy is just silly.

I imagine there are many ways that versatility can compensate for not being the absolute best in class. Only having to buy one hull rather than 5 is a start.

5 days skill point loss is not really a big deal if you're a committed T3 pilot. After all, it's not as if you're ever going to need to train anything else, right?

The price of T3s is determined purely by demand and supply of components. If T3s become less demanded (they won't), they'll become cheaper (they won't).

They won't become less in demand because even with half the EHP they currently have, they're still better than anything else available.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that was the order as well.

I don't think so Alvatore, no.

Currently having the slot layout determined by the subsystems fitted means you have consequences to your choices
You have to make trade offs to get 1 aspect over another, and that to me makes a lot of sense.

if all T3's had 6/6/4 slots irrespective of the subsystems fitted it would be bad imho.

I think if we're going to fix slots, it should be more along the lines of this:
Legion ... 6/4/6
Loki ... 6/5/5
Proteus ... 6/4/6
Tengu ... 6/6/4

If you fix the slots they definitely become easier to balance. Unfortunately they also become much less interesting to fit and lose some of their flexibility (which is supposed to be what they are all about according to CCP). So I tend to think it's not a great idea. I do support the removal of rigs and the addition of subsystem bonuses that would at least somewhat replace them. Rigs run completely counter to the whole flexibility theme.

Okay, so you buy a single hull. If you're a committed T3 pilot as you suggest, you will need multiple fits for that one hull, which includes non-recoverable rigs (to avoid being a waste of a ship in fleet). To achieve the fits that you are crying about, you most definitely need to use T2 rigs. How many T2 rigs can you rip out and replace over and over again as you swap roles before cost negates the "versatility" advantage you receive by buying a single hull?

Hint: T2 rig prices have dropped following the scanning changes, but it can still be cheaper to buy a second hull than a second set of T2 rigs.


If you've trained everything in the game that you want to train, then maybe, sure. Otherwise, like almost everyone else that I know, you still have a list of things you want to work toward. Finishing the odd level 5 skills in Gunnery, Missiles, etc. to eek out a bit more effectiveness is still a benefit compared to re-training Gallente Offensive Subs 5 repeatedly, and that's for a pure T3 pilot. You also still need all the same support skills as the HAC or Recon or Logi pilots except for the specific hulls.


It sounds like you live in C5/C6 and run capital escalations for income (or sell PLEX), and the salvage goes to the corp. For the rest of us not blessed with capital escalations, we can directly feel the effect of the changing prices in the T3 commodities market. Here's a secret: it's flooded and prices continue to fall. The Venture caused the bottom to fall out of the fullerene/polymer market, which was already declining, and the price of nanoribbons continues to drop like a lead weight; a year and a half ago, buy orders were over 6mil each and now sell orders are just 4.2mil each, likely dropping to below 4mil each before too much longer.

With the same CPU/PG from a POS tower, it's more profitable to run T2 industry than it is T3 industry, by a very wide margin. T3 prices have dropped so much that our corp has suspended its reduced-price T3 program for corp members; it's just as cheap, or cheaper, to buy directly from Jita. A "cheap" Tengu kill used to be over 500mil. Now they are in the low 400s.

If CCP removes the skill point loss, demand (and deaths) for T3 cruisers will rise (rapidly). If CCP swings the nerf bat without adjusting the cost, you can guarantee fewer people will be flying them, thus reducing the demand and the price even more. It was very noticeable when Nullsec scaled back their T3 doctrines. It was also noticeable when CCP "fixed" the "bug" of avoiding skill point loss by ejecting before the ship exploded.


This only discusses the "cost" in the balancing factor for T3 cruisers, and just barely does that. It does show that you're out of touch with much in the way of the T3 product line, as do your other posts. Step back and consider other regions of space and other uses of the T3 besides what you see in your own little world, and you'll see a much different picture. The "problem" isn't quite as bad as you make it out to be.

perhaps add a 6th subsystem .. support systems just used for
- logi
- command links
- cloak
- interdiction nullifier
- cyno

They do have skill point loss which t2 cruisers don't have, I would think that that would be worth an extra slot.

as far as 4 mids and 6 lows on the Legion, Amarr has more lows than Gallente which has less mids than Minmatar. Minmatar being both armor or shield tanked would favor a */5/5 slot layour, which pushes Gallente into a */4/6 and leaves Amarr with a */3/7. The Tengu would be better suited with a */7/3 because it is has the ECM setup which would burn a lot of mid slots.

On a related note, the interdiction nullifier should still remove a low slot and possibly change the Drone Synthesis Projector to remove a high slot.