Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I completely agree with most of your post.

However, I assert that if the proteus, legion and loki remained in their current form except that they had a maximum EHP of 60k, you'd still take one in preference to a navy brutix. The reason for this is the T2 resists, which means that guardians can keep the T3 ships alive under a great deal more incoming firepower than T1 battlecruisers. This really matters when you're at point-blank range faced with a couple of vindicators (not an unusual situation in W-space).

The reason there's no market in legion, loki and proteus datacores is that the subsystems and bonuses make them awesome brawlers (as you and I use them) and nothing else, whereas the tengu can brawl, scout, solo and do PVE awesomely, so it has appeal in all classes of space and in all roles.

Clearly not enough of these armour brawlers are dying to create a liquid replacement market - if they were I could sell the gallente etc. datacores.

I say keep the resists and strip down the armour, shield and powergrid so that all T3s have to make a choice between gank and tank.

You want a strong capacitor? Fine, it should come at the cost of some dps or tank, not as a result of it. You want more dps? fine, fit smaller plates or shield boosters. You want lots of tank? Also fine, give up some guns, missiles or capactior strength to have it.

The ships would still be awesome, they could all become multi-role.

I think this could be a better situation.

^^ Also agree with everything you just said. It's so much better being civil and constructive isn't it?!

On another note, if you're interested in working out a T3 supply deal for our alliance, mail me...

That coupled with the ability to fit a 100mn afterburner to make it difficult to catch plus a permatank strong enough to tank any pve site in eve all serve to make it the obvious choice for solo PVE in hostile environments.

this is just additions. not only tengu fit 100mn. but only missiles can hit nice while u moving fast and hit fast ships too. as for tank loki can fit almost same tank. not sure about other 2
edit: tested legi. it can have same tank.

The Tengu is in high demand because of the perception that "Caldari = PvE." The largest demand for PVE ships comes from highsec - as with most high-end ships and modules. It's actually not the best ship for the job in highsec, but that perception is hard to overcome. Still, I am not going to argue that it is not the best of the T3's for PvE.

The Proteus has something screwy going on with the synergy between the Engineering and Offensive Subsystems. None of them really make sense to me. The Drone Synthesis one doesn't have enough drones and results in totally useless high slots in conjunction with the Augmented Capacitor Reservoir. It looks a lot like the old Ishtar, without the flexibility of the 5 mids/5 lows. The Proteus has too many highslots and not enough midslots in most configurations. If you try to give it more mids, you go back to to 75m3 from an already subpar 100m3 and lose most of your dronebay. The turret subsystems also don't work very well. I'd say the ideal for the Proteus is somewhere around 5 highs, 4 mids, 7 lows.

The Loki is gimped for PvE because its missile subsystem is a stupid old-fashioned Minmatar split weapon system. I have used it in an AC configuration in Incursions in the past, but not sure what the current demand is for it.

The Legion actually has some good setups, but none of them is as effective as other ships for normal PvE due to range considerations. Making the Legion an active armor tanked HAM ship or an active armor tanked pulse laser ship would be ideal. I've also used this ship for Incursions, but once again I am out of touch with that community at this time.

So the Tengu (and Caldari) are basically worthless for anything beyond PvE. But we're going to nerf them. Again.

Arthur, I know you're a rational person so I assume you must be being deliberately provocative

for clarity: the tengu is excellent at everything, while every other T3 excels only at one type of pvp. This is an imbalance which creates a very tangible effect in the demand side of the market.

I disagree with this statement. The Tengu is far from worthless at PVP. It is in a good spot - largely thanks to the HML nerf. Are HML's perfect for all purposes? No. But CCP has managed to buff other medium weapons to a point where the imbalance between HML's and everything else is not so absurd.

Now they need to tone down the buffer on the Proteus, Loki, and Legion so that they can be buffed in other areas.

Just try to ignore a few alliances that are using them as line ships........I've seen 400 tengus on grid, recently. They were rail tengus, but they were still tengus.

tengu every time. dual asb mega tank beats all.