These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Lying About Identity No Longer Allowed Under EULA

First post First post First post
Author
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#181 - 2013-09-10 16:58:34 UTC
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
Mr Kidd wrote:
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:


I understand the need to keep rules vague, in order to prevent people from tapdancing to the line. In this case, your wording honestly is way too vauge. It has a chilling effect on the metagame we all know and love.


Translation: It's like one player can't fck over the other no more!

I think it's hilarious! The amount of tears coming from people who play the game in the vilest manner and are the lowest form of scum in the game are crying because they're going to have to move up one rung up the ladder descending directly into the poop chute of Eve, it's plain simple hilarity!

With that said, I'm also not one for lots of rules and especially those that are so vague that simply having a name similar to another toon might get me banned for no other reason than being here. *shakes head*


CCP uses this image to market the game. The ability to be bad is literally a selling point.


I understand your point. The problem is a lack of in-game mechanics to deal with egregious offenders who are ultimately negatively impacting the game beyond an individual rage quitting with the pervasiveness of scams involving impersonation.

I do believe there needs to be a clear delineation between in game asshattery and something more serious like impersonating CCP/GMs and/or misrepresenting one's relationship with them in order to affect outcomes in the game. The latter should be bannable. The former should be confined to in game penalties which are independent of the petition system.

How such a system would work, I've no idea. But, it would be a welcome surprise if CCP spent an expansion or two working on such ideas beyond broken bounty systems, wardec mechanics and playing shell games with ship rebalancing. Hell, open up Concord to allow player interaction. When one has the badge on they have access to Concord ships, ability to call in reinforcements, can only engage Concord designated targets, get bounties from Concord, able to boot offenders from stations. When the badge is off, they're a regular player. How would it be tied to in game scamming/impersonations, that's a real tough one. But, then, I'm not CCP and don't have the resources of dozens of devs working on the game....and getting paid to do so.

If it could be made to work, it would be a helluva expansion and I think many, many players would participate.


Don't ban me, bro!

Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#182 - 2013-09-10 17:03:19 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Aryth wrote:
One of the great things about EVE is the "hook". Also why DUST is failing.

EVE is the only game around where there is a sandbox where you can play sociopaths in space, scammer extraordinaire, megalomaniac that commits war crimes, super spy that takes down empires, robber who specializes in thefts, cruel pirate, economy shaping market warlord, etc.

These are the things that make EVE better than any other game out there for those that enjoy interacting in a world with those archtypes. Ships in space while a niche, is not truly the niche that makes EVE excel. It is the broad and deep and endless possibilities of the sandbox itself.

In general the Goon position is for an expansive sandbox as possible. Scamming is not my playstyle of choice and I have never participated in it, but I do love the new stories and drama it generates. Impersonation is a cornerstone of many scams and I would not like to see that leave EVE.




Sandbox and litterbox are not the same.



Tell that to the cat.

Opportunities are opportunities.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#183 - 2013-09-10 17:04:46 UTC
Mr Kidd wrote:
When one has the badge on they have access to Concord ships, ability to call in reinforcements, can only engage Concord designated targets, get bounties from Concord, able to boot offenders from stations.





The day actual human players have control of any aspect of CONCORD, especially the Forum Warrior types, is the day EVE will truly die.

It will re-define "mass exodus".

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Lady Areola Fappington
#184 - 2013-09-10 17:13:13 UTC
Mr Kidd wrote:

I understand your point. The problem is a lack of in-game mechanics to deal with egregious offenders who are ultimately negatively impacting the game beyond an individual rage quitting with the pervasiveness of scams involving impersonation.

I do believe there needs to be a clear delineation between in game asshattery and something more serious like impersonating CCP/GMs and/or misrepresenting one's relationship with them in order to affect outcomes in the game. The latter should be bannable. The former should be confined to in game penalties which are independent of the petition system.

How such a system would work, I've no idea. But, it would be a welcome surprise if CCP spent an expansion or two working on such ideas beyond broken bounty systems, wardec mechanics and playing shell games with ship rebalancing. Hell, open up Concord to allow player interaction. When one has the badge on they have access to Concord ships, ability to call in reinforcements, can only engage Concord designated targets, get bounties from Concord, able to boot offenders from stations. When the badge is off, they're a regular player. How would it be tied to in game scamming/impersonations, that's a real tough one. But, then, I'm not CCP and don't have the resources of dozens of devs working on the game....and getting paid to do so.

If it could be made to work, it would be a helluva expansion and I think many, many players would participate.





Here's the way I see it, when you break down the "scams", and how I think CCP should handle it.

Anyone impersonating a CM/Dev/ISD/out of game "caretaker"=ToS violation, handled via account action.
Anyone using the name system to impersonate someone, I.E. TheMlttani=TOS violation, account action.
Affinity scams naming a specific person "Hey I'm Chribba's Alt, lemme do that escrow=TOS violation
Affinity scams not naming a specific person "Hey, I'm a CFC recruiter's alt, I can get you in for a fee=Typical EVE scam, leave it.

My suggestion, which of course would be gamed insanely, would be a reputation system. Just a simple thumbs up/thumbs down trustworthiness rating. No other game effects, anything like that. People with positive ratings would work to keep them, people who go negative...yeah, you can re-roll your character, but it'll just restart at 0.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide

Ultim8Evil
Exit-Strategy
Unchained Alliance
#185 - 2013-09-10 17:14:32 UTC
How does this affect traditional old-fashioned recruitment scamming?

"Good day, I am a Recruitment Officer for XYZ Corp. Pay me 500 mill ISK to join us"

If you are in fact not a Recruitment Officer for aforementioned XYZ Corp, are you now in breach of the EULA?

I must confess, I haven't read the previous 10 pages of this thread.

Follow me on Twitter for literally no good reason @TheUltim8Evil

Rengerel en Distel
#186 - 2013-09-10 17:16:47 UTC
Ultim8Evil wrote:
How does this affect traditional old-fashioned recruitment scamming?

"Good day, I am a Recruitment Officer for XYZ Corp. Pay me 500 mill ISK to join us"

If you are in fact not a Recruitment Officer for aforementioned XYZ Corp, are you now in breach of the EULA?

I must confess, I haven't read the previous 10 pages of this thread.


You could at least click the blue dev tags to read where they say they'll let us know.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.

Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#187 - 2013-09-10 17:17:37 UTC
When considering a rule(change) and gameplay, you must first recognize if the change actually is a serious impact as to why you play the game.

If it is, then ask yourself if it's worth adapting, or better to move on.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.

Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#188 - 2013-09-10 17:27:22 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Here's the way I see it, when you break down the "scams", and how I think CCP should handle it.

Anyone impersonating a CM/Dev/ISD/out of game "caretaker"=ToS violation, handled via account action.
Anyone using the name system to impersonate someone, I.E. TheMlttani=TOS violation, account action.
Affinity scams naming a specific person "Hey I'm Chribba's Alt, lemme do that escrow=TOS violation
Affinity scams not naming a specific person "Hey, I'm a CFC recruiter's alt, I can get you in for a fee=Typical EVE scam, leave it.


Which is precisely how it has unambiguously been interpreted and implemented for as long as I've been playing, which then makes me wonder why some mid-level functionary felt there needed to be clarification in the first place, never mind then proceeding to obfuscate the issue through ham-fisted use of language.


Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal

embrel
BamBam Inc.
#189 - 2013-09-10 17:38:34 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
I don't even bother to tell my friends about EVE at all anymore.

They finally heard all they needed to know when I was explaining the concept of lame miner bumping, as opposed to ganking.

They cannot understand how I can even stand logging into the same server 'with those people'. They will not ever be CCP customers that's for sure.

And only because of that one thing.


Those friends seem openminded indeed. Did they notice that they share the planet with THOSE people? And they don't happen to involve the Romney wife?
RomeStar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#190 - 2013-09-10 17:44:17 UTC
Aryth wrote:
Rental space scams (we don't allow this internally any longer). .



Thats not what I heard would you like to know more?

Signatured removed, CCP Phantom

Eram Fidard
Doomheim
#191 - 2013-09-10 17:56:14 UTC
When I tell my friends about EVE, I don't tell them about dragging ore every 3 minutes.

I don't tell them that they can run the same 30 or so missions until the end of time and watch their wallet grow.

I don't tell them they can have a 'home' in space, since POS would never live up to their expectations of what a game should be.

I do tell them there are consequences for their actions, that their choices have meaning, and their interactions with other players define how they will enjoy the game.

I do tell them about the one guy who disbanded an alliance of thousands with the click of a button.

Was Haargoth actually in contravention of the ToS (as it has always existed this way according to some) not once but twice, firstly for misrepresenting himself to goon recruiters and secondly for misrepresenting himself by taking the actions of "someone responsible for the alliance" when in fact he had ceased to be that after being recruited?

Want to know what a non-eve-playing friend said when I told him about this ToS change?

"Isn't that kinda the whole point of eve?"

Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages.

Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#192 - 2013-09-10 17:59:32 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Here's the way I see it, when you break down the "scams", and how I think CCP should handle it.

Anyone impersonating a CM/Dev/ISD/out of game "caretaker"=ToS violation, handled via account action.
Anyone using the name system to impersonate someone, I.E. TheMlttani=TOS violation, account action.
Affinity scams naming a specific person "Hey I'm Chribba's Alt, lemme do that escrow=TOS violation
Affinity scams not naming a specific person "Hey, I'm a CFC recruiter's alt, I can get you in for a fee=Typical EVE scam, leave it.

Agreed with one exception: Why should falsely claiming to be Chribba's alt (or The Mittani's, or Shadoo's, or mine) be a violation? It's easily verifiable by anyone with the sense to make a few basic checks.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Elizabeth Aideron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#193 - 2013-09-10 18:04:58 UTC
RomeStar wrote:
Aryth wrote:
Rental space scams (we don't allow this internally any longer). .



Thats not what I heard would you like to know more?


Given that our forums have page after page of people angry about the ban, you've heard wrong.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#194 - 2013-09-10 18:06:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Murk Paradox wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Aryth wrote:
One of the great things about EVE is the "hook". Also why DUST is failing.

EVE is the only game around where there is a sandbox where you can play sociopaths in space, scammer extraordinaire, megalomaniac that commits war crimes, super spy that takes down empires, robber who specializes in thefts, cruel pirate, economy shaping market warlord, etc.

These are the things that make EVE better than any other game out there for those that enjoy interacting in a world with those archtypes. Ships in space while a niche, is not truly the niche that makes EVE excel. It is the broad and deep and endless possibilities of the sandbox itself.

In general the Goon position is for an expansive sandbox as possible. Scamming is not my playstyle of choice and I have never participated in it, but I do love the new stories and drama it generates. Impersonation is a cornerstone of many scams and I would not like to see that leave EVE.




Sandbox and litterbox are not the same.



Tell that to the cat.

Opportunities are opportunities.


Feral cats are eliminated in the real world where people are running real farms. It's only where cats are coddled by people who think they are cute and not pests where they exist in larger numbers.

Maybe CCP decided not to coddle the feral cats any more?


I don't see people playing "Farming while being foiled by Feral Cats you can't do anything about Online".

Yeah I know - throw the boilerplate "wardec/bounty/gank" back at me. Big deal.

You know, given a choice, most people can handle asshats. But also give the choice as to whether or not they want to even cross paths with them, they choose not to. Who cares to deal with someone's SSRI wonder in a darkened room somewhere? It's not like we are all cops now, having to put up with every miscreant because its.... oh oh... our job or something. And every MMO risks feeling like a job, even for good reasons.

So they want to draw a line at who you can impersonate. Big freaking deal.

The apparent freakout over this indicates that people were indeed abusing something.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Lady Areola Fappington
#195 - 2013-09-10 18:10:03 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:

Agreed with one exception: Why should falsely claiming to be Chribba's alt (or The Mittani's, or Shadoo's, or mine) be a violation? It's easily verifiable by anyone with the sense to make a few basic checks.


I sat and thought on it for a moment, and it's more for the discrediting bit, than for the scamming aspect.

Jimbo the Moron running around the other side of the cluster, ripping off people while having "I am Chribba's alt" in bio.
I suppose it could be an edge case, though. There are some who value their name in EVE, and you can't be everywhere at once.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#196 - 2013-09-10 18:10:25 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:


Feral cats are eliminated in the real world. It's only where cats are coddled by people who think they are cute and not pests where they exist in larger numbers.

Maybe CCP decided not to coddle the feral cats any more?

Feral cats breed like rabbits, domestic cats are generally neutered. I can take you to places just outside of a major conurbation in the UK where feral cats exist in far larger numbers than their domestic counterparts.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Deep DonkeyPunch
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#197 - 2013-09-10 18:17:49 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:

Agreed with one exception: Why should falsely claiming to be Chribba's alt (or The Mittani's, or Shadoo's, or mine) be a violation? It's easily verifiable by anyone with the sense to make a few basic checks.


I sat and thought on it for a moment, and it's more for the discrediting bit, than for the scamming aspect.

Jimbo the Moron running around the other side of the cluster, ripping off people while having "I am Chribba's alt" in bio.
I suppose it could be an edge case, though. There are some who value their name in EVE, and you can't be everywhere at once.

it said in the wiki not to trust chris bailey if they scrolled down and read the big red writing Bear

#freebarracuda #freedeesnider

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#198 - 2013-09-10 18:20:04 UTC
Eram Fidard wrote:
When I tell my friends about EVE, I don't tell them about dragging ore every 3 minutes.

I don't tell them that they can run the same 30 or so missions until the end of time and watch their wallet grow.

I don't tell them they can have a 'home' in space, since POS would never live up to their expectations of what a game should be.

I do tell them there are consequences for their actions, that their choices have meaning, and their interactions with other players define how they will enjoy the game.

I do tell them about the one guy who disbanded an alliance of thousands with the click of a button.

Was Haargoth actually in contravention of the ToS (as it has always existed this way according to some) not once but twice, firstly for misrepresenting himself to goon recruiters and secondly for misrepresenting himself by taking the actions of "someone responsible for the alliance" when in fact he had ceased to be that after being recruited?

Want to know what a non-eve-playing friend said when I told him about this ToS change?

"Isn't that kinda the whole point of eve?"




Key point "non-eve-playing". Sure your friend is OK with the point of Eve, as perceived.

Mos Eisley might be an interesting place, but if there ever was one, who would go there willingly?

Most people can deal with it, but given the choice, they don't want to feel like they've taken on an unpaid babysitting job.

It may or may not be the right course, and people's opinions will vary for sure. Nobody here is going to manage to force anything on anybody, no matter how much the rage about it.

If someone chooses to be in better company and not play Eve, there's nothing we can do about it.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Ganque
Ganque's Squad
#199 - 2013-09-10 18:27:11 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:

Agreed with one exception: Why should falsely claiming to be Chribba's alt (or The Mittani's, or Shadoo's, or mine) be a violation? It's easily verifiable by anyone with the sense to make a few basic checks.


I sat and thought on it for a moment, and it's more for the discrediting bit, than for the scamming aspect.

Jimbo the Moron running around the other side of the cluster, ripping off people while having "I am Chribba's alt" in bio.
I suppose it could be an edge case, though. There are some who value their name in EVE, and you can't be everywhere at once.


I can see that as technically its meta though personally I'd allow it as a simple check with the cat himself would put you straight, but what about a further case of a guy role playing a nutcase who claims to literally be Chribba, but has a wholly unrelated name? Should he be banned for saying he is a famous in game personality when this is easily verified that he is not? To my mind again no.

Then what about this NPC nonsense, so if I claim to play for Gal Fed 2nd Division promotion contenders Oulley Wednesday F.C. Am I to be banned for claiming I am representing an NPC entity? Shocked What kind of horseshit is that?, CVA, Sani sabik, various pirate faction affiliated rp'ers to all be banned for role playing cause that's what that **** baldly states. (yeah I dig that a lot of rp really should be banned but that ain't something that should be being slipped under the radar in this fashion)
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#200 - 2013-09-10 18:29:12 UTC
Somebody prone to ragequitting over getting scammed is going to ragequit over something else inevitably. There's a point at which they'll realize that this isn't the game for them, whether it's getting scammed, suicide ganked, blown up trying to grab something out of lowsec, getting wardecced, being undersold on the market, or whatever. Competitive sandbox MMOs like EVE are simply not for them and CCP trying to shoehorn them in only degrades the experience the rest of us have by stripping away the aspects of the game that we enjoy until EVE is literally a generic "kill rats, collect gold" MMO with passive skill training.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar