These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dear CCP please dont nerf the machariel

First post
Author
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#181 - 2013-09-18 19:36:43 UTC
Matthias Thullmann wrote:
Drake Doe wrote:
Matthias Thullmann wrote:
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:
As long as its guns are firing, its bonuses are being used 100%.

What about the gallente bonus being to drone speed? You don't really need falloff if you have fast drones anyway.

That would be relevant if all drones moved


Well the projectile bonus is irrelevant if you use hybrid too... just use drones that move (heavies etc). If the fit is sentry it impacts the DPS somewhat tho.

Better they nerf that than bring the speed down to 800m/s with mwd.



Thing is most people asking to bring Cynabals and Machariels in line with other ships its not really their dps but exactly agility/speed 2 ship categories under.
Hell change the fall off for tracking instead, its still a gallente bonus and far more useful in this hull without making it stupid able to shoot shortest range ammo with ACs further away than it can target.

Speed/agility adjustment and it should be ok.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne

The Bounty Collector
Doomheim
#182 - 2013-09-18 19:44:26 UTC  |  Edited by: The Bounty Collector
So the confirmed changes seem a bit drastic. -3 turrets, 65% reduction in overall speed, and change of falloff to drone damage/hitpoints.

How can we stop this??
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#183 - 2013-09-18 23:15:21 UTC
The Bounty Collector wrote:
So the confirmed changes seem a bit drastic. -3 turrets, 65% reduction in overall speed, and change of falloff to drone damage/hitpoints.

How can we stop this??


First up, that's far too drastic.

Second: Confirmed? Who confirmed it? Where?
Mra Rednu
Vanishing Point.
#184 - 2013-09-19 07:33:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Mra Rednu
Onictus wrote:
Eve Uni?

......also since they tend to blob around low sec they are about the perfect target for pirates that DO have access to that sort of asset.

.....not the best litmus.



Lol wut ?
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#185 - 2013-09-19 08:45:18 UTC
Onictus wrote:
Eve Uni?

Yes, that bastion of skilled high SP pilots with both the skills and the money run around in billion isk hulls.....



I invite you to use any other killboard to look at the relative number of kills from Machs/Vindis/Bhaals/NMs/Snakes, and prove me wrong.

The mach is vastly preferred over other pirate BS's for PvP.
Onictus
SniggWaffe
Pandemic Horde
#186 - 2013-09-19 08:59:22 UTC
Verity Sovereign wrote:
Onictus wrote:
Eve Uni?

Yes, that bastion of skilled high SP pilots with both the skills and the money run around in billion isk hulls.....



I invite you to use any other killboard to look at the relative number of kills from Machs/Vindis/Bhaals/NMs/Snakes, and prove me wrong.

The mach is vastly preferred over other pirate BS's for PvP.


You need to data mine to discover this, it was pointed out pages ago.

Check the market camper......I mean hub guys......bet you find more vindis there
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#187 - 2013-09-19 11:20:55 UTC
The Bounty Collector wrote:
So the confirmed changes seem a bit drastic. -3 turrets, 65% reduction in overall speed, and change of falloff to drone damage/hitpoints.

How can we stop this??


By not making stuff up?
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#188 - 2013-09-19 12:47:05 UTC
Onictus wrote:
You need to data mine to discover this, it was pointed out pages ago.



I checked this thread, found nothing.

Basically, you are not willing to provide any data to counter mine, that the Mach is vastly preferred for PvP relative to any other pirate BS (though the Vindi makes a decent showing).
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#189 - 2013-09-19 13:22:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
Onictus wrote:
You need to data mine to discover this, it was pointed out pages ago.

Check the market camper......I mean hub guys......bet you find more vindis there

Not quite sure what are you saying. There may be more vindis, but that doesn't mean they are more used for PvP.

Honestly, I do get why Machs are preferred by some people out there who used them for solo-ish aor small group PvP. Basically, they aren't sitting ducks that get caught by AB'ing cruisers (yes, I'm exaggerating here; doesn't change the fact that speed of most BSs is irrelevant) like other battleships, and they can be used as kiters - for some time it seems it was common suggestion that you either can kite, or you don't undock for non-something-hugging (as in: WH aperture hugging, station games etc.) PvP.

For quite some time "Mach vs another BS" was basically the same as "SFI vs another cruiser". Not always the best, but chances are at least sometimes you'llbe able to pick fights you can win, GTFO etc.

Vindis and Bhaals won't fall into obscurity as long as they have their (almost) unique definig bonuses. NM and Rattlers, on the other hand, are generic boats with no reserved niche and thus they must be really really good at something so that paying the price could be justified.
Onictus
SniggWaffe
Pandemic Horde
#190 - 2013-09-19 14:10:55 UTC
Verity Sovereign wrote:
Onictus wrote:
You need to data mine to discover this, it was pointed out pages ago.



I checked this thread, found nothing.

Basically, you are not willing to provide any data to counter mine, that the Mach is vastly preferred for PvP relative to any other pirate BS (though the Vindi makes a decent showing).


Mainly because I don't care enough to bother. I don't feel like digging through half of new Edens kills, I simply don't care that much.

I told you where to look hey cracking kiddo.
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#191 - 2013-09-19 16:05:23 UTC
Verity Sovereign wrote:
Onictus wrote:
You need to data mine to discover this, it was pointed out pages ago.



I checked this thread, found nothing.

Basically, you are not willing to provide any data to counter mine, that the Mach is vastly preferred for PvP relative to any other pirate BS (though the Vindi makes a decent showing).


so becuase its preferred it needs to be nerfed?
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#192 - 2013-09-19 16:53:18 UTC
Bastion Arzi wrote:
Verity Sovereign wrote:
Onictus wrote:
You need to data mine to discover this, it was pointed out pages ago.



I checked this thread, found nothing.

Basically, you are not willing to provide any data to counter mine, that the Mach is vastly preferred for PvP relative to any other pirate BS (though the Vindi makes a decent showing).


so becuase its preferred it needs to be nerfed?

If that's the case, it's far from a new scenario.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--

Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#193 - 2013-09-19 18:01:21 UTC
People see what they wanna see. Dominix is on WAY more KM's than Mealstrom. Because the Mach is the only decent PvP projectile BS. I don't hear them crying nerf the Domi, although it is way more powerful in its class than the Mach is. Domi has had as many recent buffs as Mach has had nerfs. RS isn't on KM's? Boo friggin hoo, theres other drone boats that put out MORE DPS. Vindi isnt on KM's? Oh wait, theres 4 or 5 blaster boats with as much DPS as the Vindi for 1/5 the price. NM not on KM's? My fraking Armageddon gets as much DPS, although its not a laser boat ,there are comparable laser boats in the damage category with great tank for way less money.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#194 - 2013-09-19 18:14:55 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
People see what they wanna see. Dominix is on WAY more KM's than Mealstrom. Because the Mach is the only decent PvP projectile BS. I don't hear them crying nerf the Domi, although it is way more powerful in its class than the Mach is. Domi has had as many recent buffs as Mach has had nerfs. RS isn't on KM's? Boo friggin hoo, theres other drone boats that put out MORE DPS. Vindi isnt on KM's? Oh wait, theres 4 or 5 blaster boats with as much DPS as the Vindi for 1/5 the price. NM not on KM's? My fraking Armageddon gets as much DPS, although its not a laser boat ,there are comparable laser boats in the damage category with great tank for way less money.

You're not very attentive are you? The domi just took a range and tracking nerf.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--

Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#195 - 2013-09-19 18:26:35 UTC
It not that its preferred, its why its preferred.

If something is overpowered, odds are that once people figure out how good it is, they will use it, by a large margin.

We're not talking a small preference here, as far as I can tell, its on more kill mails than the NM/Snake/Bhaal combined, and still has a nearly 2:1 lead over the vindi. For incursions, one of the best uses of these boats (as even if they do well in PvP, they are still a ~1 billion isk hull that many will want on their KB, and its still a hull that would get primary'd in larger engagements)- as its the best reliable ISK/hour in high sec - many fleets are saturated with Machs (as people on this thread have already attested to)

Vindis are rather high in demand now for incursions, due to the competitions in HQ sites, and that 2/3 of HQ sites involve a tower bash, and there's no better way to Vin a contest than to have vindicators firing void at point blank range onto a tower.

Meanwhile, the snake still finds itself competing with T1 BSs (domi), Bhaals don't have much PvE use (and judging by the KBs, less PvP use than machs), Nightmares find themselves as only incursion boats, where they are taken with a certain amount of disdain due to their slow speed and cap issues (cap chains... ewwww)
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#196 - 2013-09-19 18:49:58 UTC
Bastion Arzi wrote:
If its SOOO excellent why isnt everyone and their mother sporting a machariel?



It requires a "bit" of isk investment which most null/low pvp fans are averse for a reason, risk involved, however if you lived in null for some time you'd already probably heard about some cloak Mach gang pounding rating carriers/lazy people for weeks in Goon space without getting caught simply because no one could, until some of them made a mistake.

Biggest nerf to Mach affecting this tactic arrived yet? -Tornados

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne

Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#197 - 2013-09-19 21:58:38 UTC
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
It requires a "bit" of isk investment which most null/low pvp fans are averse for a reason, risk involved, however if you lived in null for some time you'd already probably heard about some cloak Mach gang pounding rating carriers/lazy people for weeks in Goon space without getting caught simply because no one could, until some of them made a mistake.


omg is that isk cost being a balancing factor?

and no ive never heard of fleets of uncatchable machs but then ive only played the game for 9 months or so...


Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#198 - 2013-09-19 22:20:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Sergeant Acht Scultz
Bastion Arzi wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
It requires a "bit" of isk investment which most null/low pvp fans are averse for a reason, risk involved, however if you lived in null for some time you'd already probably heard about some cloak Mach gang pounding rating carriers/lazy people for weeks in Goon space without getting caught simply because no one could, until some of them made a mistake.


omg is that isk cost being a balancing factor?

and no ive never heard of fleets of uncatchable machs but then ive only played the game for 9 months or so...




Lets be honest for a second even it's not an Eve use plz, "cost is not a balancing factor"... well cost/effectiveness IS a fcking "good to use or crap" factor and this is undeniable and is always translated by masses using whatever awesome crap at the moment at massive numbers because ITS COST EFFECTIVE.
And this has a price, the one that at one moment logs start showing stuff and the nerf hammer gets excited.

Sry but brought it as down as I could to make it simple to understand, seems I have no other choice to explain Stuff™

Edit: about your 9mths Eve existance as Eve player this is probably why you haven't heard about it but Machs actually are used by some very rich players as ultimate gank/killing/harassing tools for a reason. Actually this ship name should really be changed for "Harasser" instead of Machariel because that's exactly what it is which should be the gaming area of Marauders !!

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne

Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#199 - 2013-09-20 06:01:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Cipher Jones
And Mega is the hull of choice for cost effective harassing ATM, again, people seeing what they want to see.

Using the logic presented in the above post its time to nerf the Mega, not the Mach.

Quote:
You're not very attentive are you? The domi just took a range and tracking nerf.


It had 2 buffs and 1/4 of its 2nd buff taken away.

Machs already been nerfed a lot harder than that.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it

Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#200 - 2013-09-20 06:24:18 UTC
Bastion Arzi wrote:
Verity Sovereign wrote:
Onictus wrote:
You need to data mine to discover this, it was pointed out pages ago.



I checked this thread, found nothing.

Basically, you are not willing to provide any data to counter mine, that the Mach is vastly preferred for PvP relative to any other pirate BS (though the Vindi makes a decent showing).


so becuase its preferred it needs to be nerfed?


You're asking the wrong people, remember the Devs are the ones who have come out and said it's too powerful. This isnt a player driven witch hunt.

That a chunk of people in this thread agree isnt wholly relevant to your concern.