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FAO: [TS-F] and Affiliates

Author
Repentence Tyrathlion
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#1 - 2013-09-08 19:43:53 UTC
Dear True Slave Foundations.

Thessalonia, Polevhia, Sato, all you others... I'm sure you recognise me as a definite critic of yours. Few are quicker to pounce with some dismissive remark or snipe if you show up in a topic uninvited, as you often do. I have my reasons, and I'm far from alone in my dislike of Sansha's Nation. I've never felt a moment's regret or hesitation when it came to annihilating a Sansha warship, or even unarmed industrials. It's easy to consider such actions as extermination, as putting sad remnants of humanity out of their misery. I've expressed such opinions many times.

I've lost people to Nation. I had my brain screwed with by bits of your technology, and I've seen the kind of madness and destruction that you cause every time you open a wormhole. I remember vividly hearing about the first incursions, and the total figures of people abducted.

I've had time to think recently, though. Not much else to do, for various reasons that I do not care to share. My mind has, for reasons that escape me, kept returning to a few moments where some comment or argument that you've made has actually been sensible, or at least more sensible than most of what surrounds it. My typical response has been to dismiss it on the basis of its source, or at least be as disdainful as possible in my agreement.

Enough.

I've never actually spoken in any depth with one of your kind. Whether you are actually individuals of any note any more, or just mouthpieces for old man Kuvakei, I don't particularly care. So I invite you to come forward, give me the hard sell. Tell me why Nation is justified in what it does, why this 'paradise' you describe is so grand. Tell me of Kuvakei's vision, and why I should submit to it.

I have my biases and hatreds and bile for Nation, but you have my word that for this thread, I will restrain them. I want to understand.

I'll even avoid using the 'T' word.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#2 - 2013-09-08 19:54:08 UTC
Besides the usual propaganda that does more harm than good to them in my humble opinion, TSF sometimes makes sensible arguments as well.
Sofia Roseburn
Verdant Inquiries
#3 - 2013-09-08 20:04:11 UTC
I, for one, would be more than happy to have a discussion with you about my interpretation of Kuvakei's vision....as soon as you can actually eschew bias.

Until that point I don't think it's worthwhile.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#4 - 2013-09-08 22:01:08 UTC
Whilst the attempt at reaching out is appreciated, the tone (use of scare quotes, etc) of portions of your request lead me to agree with my colleague in that there would be no benefit to us in engaging in this dialogue until such time as you have cleared your mind of past hatreds, or at least managed to successfully suppress them temporarily.

Sorry.
Repentence Tyrathlion
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#5 - 2013-09-08 22:06:42 UTC
Change in attitude is unlikely if I am offered nothing to debate or consider, no? For the record, the 'scare quotes' were intended as actual quotes from the rhetoric that you yourselves often use, rather than for any negative connotations.
Jikkarr
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-09-08 22:41:31 UTC
There is no debate, nor consideration as one has presented. As much as I can appreciate your desires, I'm afraid these cannot be fulfilled as you seek.

Your attitude is your own, and you have my assurance that changing it is far from our preference.

"Jikkarr,

Your support is welcomed, appreciated. Know that I will deliver us all. In my Nation alone is the Truth."

~Master Sansha Kuvakei

Repentence Tyrathlion
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#7 - 2013-09-08 23:19:08 UTC
Jikkarr wrote:
There is no debate, nor consideration as one has presented. As much as I can appreciate your desires, I'm afraid these cannot be fulfilled as you seek.

Your attitude is your own, and you have my assurance that changing it is far from our preference.


As you wish.
Charity Black
Doomheim
#8 - 2013-09-09 07:29:11 UTC
You might as well ask a psychotic man what his hallucinations and voices in his head means. You are asking them to explain what is unexplainable, the psychotic delusions of a mad man.

Exterminate the Sansha, they are worse than the Amarr.
Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#9 - 2013-09-09 09:38:42 UTC
I am actually quite interested in an explanation of the reasons why Nation members think they are superior to the other empires. I understand you feel a bias is present (which is unavoidable), but you would do an injustice to your Nation and people if you didn't give a full example why we are misguided...perhaps many will not agree but it would help if but one did...would it not?

-Eran
Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#10 - 2013-09-09 10:35:41 UTC
Not to simply echo what my friends said moments ago, but yes the main hurdle at this point for someone in your position Pilot Tyrathlion is bias. I'll expand.

I came to the Foundations actually fairly recently compared to many others, I have only been with the organization for seven months. Before my time in the Foundations I was, like many independant Capsuleers, just drifting where the ISK took me. For a while it was to Black Rise, then to Malpais under the watchful eye of Solar Fleet and their many minions, then back to Empire space. In my return from Nullsec I actually founded an organization that focused in providing assistance to Capsuleer fleets fighting against Nation.

Rather then being 'sold' on Nation by Tiberious (who really was at the time the only person I knew of in the Foundations, precious few of the others thought discussion with Outsiders was worth bothering with), I researched things purely on my own. I asked questions. I listened. I considered. I sought out stories from both CONCORD and Nation. I compared goals, achievements, and atrocities on both sides. Yes I do say both sides on that last one. I'm not a mindless supporter of my cause, though I think it to be best I do not think it to be wholly perfect. Humans are flawed, and we are all human.

And because I thought the future of Humanity was more important then any set of laws or moralities that I used to subscribe to I let go of my prejudice against Nation. I'm in this for the end game. Because without that, I see life as rather pointless. Your own reasoning will of course differ and I wish you luck in your own journey. As long as you are willing to keep an open mind.
Repentence Tyrathlion
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#11 - 2013-09-09 11:29:50 UTC
On the contrary, Ms Polevhia - your response is considerably more useful than a simple echo, and I thank you for it.
Derek Quaid
Doomheim
#12 - 2013-09-09 11:35:15 UTC
Let me get this straight:

The arrogant, self-righteous toasters won't discuss the merits of their position because of the audience's anti-Nation bias, despite their constant need to interject on everything else where the audience has an anti-Nation bias?

What would the state of discourse be if everyone took that approach?

"No, I won't discuss my position with you until you have already abandoned yours."

Good luck selling anyone, you obnoxious pricks. I can see why you go the abduction route.

CEO, Discreet Bounties In-game Channel: Discreet Bounties

Confliktus
Perkone
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-09-09 11:48:08 UTC
Sofia Roseburn wrote:
I, for one, would be more than happy to have a discussion with you about my interpretation of Kuvakei's vision....as soon as you can actually eschew bias.

Until that point I don't think it's worthwhile.


I would be interested in reading about what this .. " vision" .. might be.
Sofia Roseburn
Verdant Inquiries
#14 - 2013-09-09 12:45:14 UTC
Derek Quaid wrote:
Let me get this straight:

The arrogant, self-righteous toasters won't discuss the merits of their position because of the audience's anti-Nation bias, despite their constant need to interject on everything else where the audience has an anti-Nation bias?


Citation needed.

If you want to walk among the adults Quaid, at least try and act like one.
Shiori Shaishi
Doomheim
#15 - 2013-09-09 13:00:25 UTC
Derek Quaid wrote:
arrogant, self-righteous toasters..

Derek Quaid wrote:
..the audience's anti-Nation bias

Simply beautiful.
Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#16 - 2013-09-09 14:24:21 UTC
Maybe Quaid should hire someone to sling his mud for him anonymously? Discreetly?

Sabik now, Sabik forever

DeadRow
State War Academy
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-09-09 22:53:59 UTC
I have no interest in preaching over the IGS though if you wish to hit me up privately, be my guest I suppose.

-Hikari
Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#18 - 2013-09-10 00:41:47 UTC
DeadRow wrote:
I have no interest in preaching over the IGS though if you wish to hit me up privately, be my guest I suppose.

-Hikari


Why are Nation supporters so hesitant to say things publicly? I understand many may berate you but I'd figure you lot are used to it by now. This is an opportunity that no salesman or saleswoman can pass up on.

-Eran
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#19 - 2013-09-10 03:19:33 UTC
Eran Mintor wrote:
DeadRow wrote:
I have no interest in preaching over the IGS though if you wish to hit me up privately, be my guest I suppose.

-Hikari


Why are Nation supporters so hesitant to say things publicly? I understand many may berate you but I'd figure you lot are used to it by now. This is an opportunity that no salesman or saleswoman can pass up on.

-Eran


Quite simply, Captain, we are no longer trying to sell an idea.

We are letting our actions speak for us.
Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#20 - 2013-09-10 03:24:34 UTC
Well your actions are failing. Please give some credibility to say otherwise.

-Eran
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