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Ishtar for C3's?
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Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2011-10-29 22:41:37 UTC
ok so basically im trying to avoid having to train missiles. it seems to me that Proteus may be subpar for C3's. if at all possible id like to not train for Tengu, and ive seen so many drakes over the last 3 years that i would probably vomit if i were to fly one.

right now im doing nullsec exploration in a maxed out Sentar. it's easy. can i make it work for C3's, and if not, are C2's kinda profitable (i.e. like grinding nullsec combat and radar sites)?
Kiyl
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
#2 - 2011-10-29 22:57:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiyl
You could probably do Lvl4's in the Ishtar tbh. Lvl3's should be a breeze.

Edit: Lol, yea, I read that wrong. I have no idea on the feasibility of an Ishtar in WH's, of any class :|
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2011-10-29 23:14:36 UTC
Big smile

you trolling or did you misread? im talking about Wormholes. i aint going back to mission-running ever ever ever. besides, even nullsec exploration is more profitable.
river Zateki
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2011-10-29 23:36:26 UTC
I know a gila pilot in my corp who can do it with sentries, id think an ishtar can too. I guess if you got good drone durability skills(ishtar has bonus to their hp too right?) the hobgobs can take frigs eventually. Dont use heavies itl be a nightmare
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2011-10-29 23:46:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Hungry Eyes
ah excellent idea. Gila. similar DPS, significantly more EHP, better omni tank. thanks!

well.. i do have to fit a codebreaker, which would gimp my tank. AB is pretty much necessary. i may have to try an Ishtar armor fit after all...
1-Up Mushroom
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2011-10-30 01:27:48 UTC  |  Edited by: 1-Up Mushroom
Hungry Eyes wrote:
ah excellent idea. Gila. similar DPS, significantly more EHP, better omni tank. thanks!

well.. i do have to fit a codebreaker, which would gimp my tank. AB is pretty much necessary. i may have to try an Ishtar armor fit after all...


I do believe the Ishtar gets a better omni-tank than a Gila, due to the already high Kin and Therm resists, but not 100% sure
5 Senses In A Person... 4 Seasons In A Year... 3 Colors In A Stoplight... 2 Poles On The Earth... ONLY 1-UP MUSHROOM!!!  If You Like My Sig, Like Me!   Remember EVE is EVErything!
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2011-10-30 02:46:01 UTC
If you are going solo, here are a few of the ideas for what might be able to effectively run sites. Due to the nature of drones, none are especially good at it, and I would recommend focusing on sentries

[Gila, C3 active selftank]
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II

Shield Boost Amplifier II
Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Photon Scattering Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Shield Boost Amplifier II

[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

This can accomplish a 489dps self tank (barely into the range of capable of selftanking a C3). The highslots are empty because they are available for whatever you want to put in there. If you have either a crystal set, or ganglinks, you can probably be in the safe tanking range, though of course you would have to watch out for neuting.

[Gila, C3 Passive tank]
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II

Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II
Heat Dissipation Amplifier II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II

[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I

Same idea as above, except with a passive tank. It has a 652dps self tank with the invuln off, 780 with it on, but does have a massively larger signature - possibly large enough to negate the benefits of the larger tank.

Lastly, for the ishtar, this is the only fit that I managed to get enough tank with
[Ishtar, C3 Solo]
Corelum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Corelum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I

513dps tank without a gang booster, cap stable. Same dps as the gila from drones. No real difference between the two.

So defense wise, you can manage to get something that can tank the sites. The problem then becomes gank. Each can put out 450dps with guarde 2's, 394 with bouncer 2's. Which all sounds nice and good... until you figure that that is the maximum amount, period. And you can't really increase it. yeah... you can put missiles on the gila, and guns on the ishtar, but both have... issues puting out significant dps with that (only 3 turret/missile slots).

So if all you have is drone skills, both will work. However there are quite a few ships that put out significantly more dps while having just as good a tank (slepnir, legion, tengu, nighthawk... actually I can't think of a decent gallente ship but that is a slightly different matter). However none of these accomplish that goal of yours of being able to tank the site, gank the site, and have an AB and codebreaker on it. But to be honest, there really isn't any ship that can manage that, unless you have logi's on the field, or ganglinks available.

-Arazel
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2011-10-30 06:23:35 UTC
thanks for those fits.

but i just cant imagine slowboating without an AB, and skipping radar sites due to no codebreaker.

are C2's pofitable at all? say compared to nullsec exploration.
Kate Lockwell
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#9 - 2011-10-30 06:27:12 UTC
Hungry Eyes wrote:
thanks for those fits.

but i just cant imagine slowboating without an AB, and skipping radar sites due to no codebreaker.

are C2's pofitable at all? say compared to nullsec exploration.


Radar/Mag sites in WHs are significantly harder then normal combat sites, and yes C2s are fairly profitable.
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2011-10-30 10:36:39 UTC
river Zateki wrote:
I know a gila pilot in my corp who can do it with sentries, id think an ishtar can too. I guess if you got good drone durability skills(ishtar has bonus to their hp too right?) the hobgobs can take frigs eventually. Dont use heavies itl be a nightmare



If you're using an Ishtar, you have a propulsion mod, most likely a MWD if you're in a wormhole. Such a setup is best used with heavies, because you would end up leaving sentries behind, and the only downside to heavies is travel time. Travel time is eliminated when your ship can move 1000 m/s to the target.

Heavies are better dps than sentries, and the ability to move around the field is not only good for tanking sleepers, it makes it harder for other players to warp in on top of you.
TriadSte
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2011-10-30 11:48:54 UTC
You have 1 issue doing this :

Doing C3s you need to do them fast because C3s are quite populated always having traffic. Trust me I lived in a C3 for a long time with a low static.

In a C3 you need DPS and tank, I mean sure you might pull off some of the normal sites like the frontier strongholds etc but your gonna get eaten alive in the radars and magnos.

Also your drones will be targeted and killed real quickly.

Also I did sites in a Proteus with ease, the Radars and Magnos sometimes got hairy but theyre do-able.

However If you want to turn this into something other than to pass time, train for a Tengu because that is a win machine for WHs.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2011-10-30 13:07:59 UTC
Personally for solo WH with an Ishtar I would stick to C1 or C2. Both can be profitable.

For those that say sleepers eat drones, it is partially true, but especially with sentries it isn't a huge problem.

Thing with a c1 or 2 is that the neuting is low enough you can easily handle an active armor tank, which leaves you room for a prop mod etc.

I have found with sentries you definitely will want at least one omni as well.

Now to be fair, I have not run sites in an Ishtar yet (still training for mine). But I have taken an armor tanked myrmidon to both C1 and C2 sites. Tank was fine, but gank was low, since the myrmidon can only field 3 sentries.

After living in a WH awhile now however I have bitten the bullet and just trained a drake for sites. 3 weeks of drake training and it still runs sites better than my months of drone skills.
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2011-10-30 18:09:39 UTC
i think i will just wait and see how the hybrid buff goes. maybe rail platforms will become more viable; mega, talos, deimos, rail-sentry domi, etc.

i will stick to C1 and C2's with the Ishtar. training up for the Tengu seems the sensible thing to do, and i wish i was interested in missiles...but i am not. it's all about pvp in the end, and i dont feel like wasting time and sp on ships i'll never fly in pvp.
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2011-10-30 18:21:26 UTC
what about the proteus? ive been wanting to buy one anyways... anyone have decent success with one in WH?
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2011-10-30 18:52:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Derath Ellecon
Hungry Eyes wrote:
i think i will just wait and see how the hybrid buff goes. maybe rail platforms will become more viable; mega, talos, deimos, rail-sentry domi, etc.

i will stick to C1 and C2's with the Ishtar. training up for the Tengu seems the sensible thing to do, and i wish i was interested in missiles...but i am not. it's all about pvp in the end, and i dont feel like wasting time and sp on ships i'll never fly in pvp.



Honestly I make better isk in C1's than C2's on average anyhow.

And I hear ya on the Tengu. This toon is pure Gallente and I plan on staying that way. i have an alt that I bit the bullet on that now flies a drake, and eventually a Tengu.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2011-10-30 18:57:06 UTC
Hungry Eyes wrote:
what about the proteus? ive been wanting to buy one anyways... anyone have decent success with one in WH?



Again, I don't have first hand experience with the Proteus, but from my experience in WH's in general, all Turret ships seem to have a bit of a disadvantage.

The problem is that Sleeper sites seem to deal with the extremes of range. From C1 on up, all of the sites I have run have some sleepers (like frigs and some cruisers) that burn right up to you and orbit really close. And then other Cruisers and Battleships that hang at 45km and further. So missiles work best since they don't have the optimal/falloff issues.

So a Proteus I would see having issues with blasters that you would spend lots of time burning to the far away sleepers. Or rails you would be burning away from everything to keep range so you can hit them.
Lili Lu
#17 - 2011-10-30 21:34:14 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
After living in a WH awhile now however I have bitten the bullet and just trained a drake for sites. 3 weeks of drake training and it still runs sites better than my months of drone skills.


But apparently working as intended Roll
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2011-10-30 21:37:26 UTC
The proteus has issues. With blasters, your dps is good enough to effectively run sites, but your range isn't. With rails your range is good enough, but your dps isn't. If you try going drones, you would be better dps wise in an ishtar, and you start having to dedicate slots to both your drones and your guns. Supposidly some people have managed to effectively run C3's in a proteus, I just don't see how (and yes, I have tried it before). That being said, some of this may change with the hybrid buff this winter.

Now, the tengu is a very nice ship... but if you are determined to be anti-missile, there are alternatives. The loki can manage ok, and the sleipnir is awsome. The legion is pretty good... though if you go pulse lasers invest in lots of scorch crystals. The absolution can work ok, but you will have range issues. If you experiment some, you are sure to find more effective ships as well. However, I guarantee that you will not find a ship that can tank a C3 site, gank a C3 site, and hack/analyze a C3 site solo. If you put a logi on the field, you can get a ship that has good resists, has a propulsion mod, and can use a hacker or anylizer, but then you are putting 2 ships on the field, and generally you would be better served putting that second guy into a dps ship as well. Once you get 3 people on the field, it starts to make sense to do 2 dps and a logi, but then it definately becomes a not-solo operation.

-Arazel
Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2011-10-30 23:41:53 UTC
thanks a lot for the feedback guys. im beginning to understand that having the dps and tank, along with hacking and analyzing is impossible for C3 and up holes on one ship, solo. Proteus does not seem to be the right way to go for solo work.

i will do what i can with my Ishie in C2, and hope for the best regarding hybrid buff.