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Consequences (?)
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Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#141 - 2013-09-07 21:02:31 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Anyway ignoring the trolls who are apparently incapable of logic in their replies (and who are terrible at math causing them to get fired from their job)
Uncalled for, untrue, and you still can't tell the difference between profit margin and markup

Pray tell me, if I buy something for $2 and sell it for $100 how much profit margin have I made?

No one was talking about profit margin.. I clearly said 5000% reduction in costs to gank...

When in fact it was a 98% reduction. I was wrong originally to use the examples I did, which doesn't alter the fact that you are crap at math.

100,000,000 cost to gank vs 2,000,000 cost to gank is not a 5000% reduction, it is a 98% reduction.

If a clue was 2 dollars and you sold it for 4 dollars that would be 100% profit. If you sold the clue for 6 dollars that would be a 200% profit... and so on and so forth. Would you like to buy a clue?

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#142 - 2013-09-07 21:03:04 UTC
Today I have learned that, apparently I should never undock either my freighters, or jump freighter anywhere, ever, because there are big scary gankers on every gate and it is absolutely never safe to go AFK on the uedama gate for 45 minutes because I forgot I was there.

If there are gank squads capable of taking down all the freighters on every gate, then a) Someone forgot to tell the freighters queued up at all the jita gates, and b) The population of Eve is a little higher than previously estimated.

Fluffy Bunny Pic!

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#143 - 2013-09-07 21:07:45 UTC
Rhivre wrote:
Today I have learned that, apparently I should never undock either my freighters, or jump freighter anywhere, ever, because there are big scary gankers on every gate and it is absolutely never safe to go AFK on the uedama gate for 45 minutes because I forgot I was there.

If there are gank squads capable of taking down all the freighters on every gate, then a) Someone forgot to tell the freighters queued up at all the jita gates, and b) The population of Eve is a little higher than previously estimated.


Its got nothing to do with the numbers of people getting ganked, its that one person in the biggest high sec cap ship in game, who has worked for months and trained for months can get ganked by a bunch of cheap alts fitting t1 gear onto some of the lowest skilled and cheapest ships in game.

Its about an imbalance, not a moral, ethical point, or statistically important number of ganks.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#144 - 2013-09-07 21:08:53 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
100,000,000 cost to gank vs 2,000,000 cost to gank is not a 5000% reduction, it is a 98% reduction.

If a clue was 2 dollars and you sold it for 4 dollars that would be 100% profit. If you sold the clue for 6 dollars that would be a 200% profit... and so on and so forth. Would you like to buy a clue?

Clue: percent reductions are not the same number as a percent increase, only in the other direction.

A 5000% increase means that the new value is 50× higher than the old one.
A 5000% decrease means that the new value is -49× the old one.

Going from 1 to 10 is a 1000% increase. Going from 10 to 1 is a 90% decrease.
Dave Stark
#145 - 2013-09-07 21:09:17 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Its about an imbalance


which is why freighters should be nerfed. it shouldn't take 20 pilots to kill 1 ship.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#146 - 2013-09-07 21:11:26 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
100,000,000 cost to gank vs 2,000,000 cost to gank is not a 5000% reduction, it is a 98% reduction.

If a clue was 2 dollars and you sold it for 4 dollars that would be 100% profit. If you sold the clue for 6 dollars that would be a 200% profit... and so on and so forth. Would you like to buy a clue?

Clue: percent reductions are not the same number as a percent increase, only in the other direction.

A 5000% increase means that the new value is 50× higher than the old one.
A 5000% decrease means that the new value is -49× the old one.

Going from 1 to 10 is a 1000% increase. Going from 10 to 1 is a 90% decrease.

Really? So a 100 million isk ship is 5000% more than a 2 million isk ship but a 2 million isk ship is not 5000% less than a 100 million isk ship... that's interesting.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#147 - 2013-09-07 21:11:57 UTC  |  Edited by: S Byerley
Dave Stark wrote:
considering fozzie has already said he isn't happy with exhumers and wants to revisit them eventually; i wouldn't use barges as any kind of evidence in that direction.


Searching for that was actually fairly informative (though it seems to refute your interpretation if you'd like to point me a different post).

CCP Fozzie wrote:
Since that fateful day we have rebalanced Frigates, Mining Barges, Destroyers, and Cruisers. In total fifty nine ships have been either added to the game or received the Tiericide treatment as of Retribution 1.0 last December, and the feedback we have been receiving surrounding these changes has been extremely positive so far.

...

we are committed to balancing on a regular basis to keep things fresh and to follow up on reactions to the earlier passes.


Tippia wrote:
“[it] has alt corporations dedicated to ganking one indiscriminately every ~20 minutes”.
Just because your claim was questioned and disproven doesn't mean you didn't state is as a matter of fact.


The most obvious problem with your interpretation is that dedication doesn't => success.

Quote:
Quote:
If that's your opinion; it comes down to game design and I obviously disagree.
It had nothing to do with game design, and everything to do with (incorrectly assumed) in-game behaviour of players.


I fail to see how CCP's balancing and their motivation can be irrespective of game design. Then again, if we can judge by your notions of cost balancing - despite direct CCP statements to the contrary, the problem presumably lies with your personal and bizarre definitions. Would it ruin your fun if I just started by asking wtf you mean? Colloquial usages would be helpful.
Dave Stark
#148 - 2013-09-07 21:14:27 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
considering fozzie has already said he isn't happy with exhumers and wants to revisit them eventually; i wouldn't use barges as any kind of evidence in that direction.


Searching for that was actually fairly informative (though it seems to refute your interpretation if you'd like to point me a different post).


interview on tmc.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#149 - 2013-09-07 21:14:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Really? So a 100 million isk ship is 5000% more than a 2 million isk ship but a 2 million isk ship is not 5000% less than a 100 million isk ship... that's interesting.
Correct.

Actually, my maths for the increase is wrong, so I don't blame you. The whole (1± n) is easy to forget. 100M is 5000% of 2M, but it's obviously only a 4900% increase (since you start out at 100% and add 4900pp on top of that to end up with 5000%).

Likewise, 100M - 5000% = -4,900M, whereas 100M - 98% = 2M.

The semantic difference between “percent of” and “percent more/less” is pretty important, but easy to be sloppy with.
Dave Stark
#150 - 2013-09-07 21:16:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
percentage change

(difference between the old value and the new value)/old value * 100 = % change.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#151 - 2013-09-07 21:18:44 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Really? So a 100 million isk ship is 5000% more than a 2 million isk ship but a 2 million isk ship is not 5000% less than a 100 million isk ship... that's interesting.
Correct.

Actually, my maths for the increase is wrong, so I don't blame you. The whole (1± n) is easy to forget. 100M is 5000% of 2M, but it's obviously only a 4900% increase (since you start out at 100% and add 4900pp on top of that to end up with 5000%).

Likewise, 100M - 5000% = -4,900M, whereas 100M - 98% = 2M.

Let me correct my original point then. It used to cost 5000% more to fit a gank ship... that's assuming 100 million isk base hull, disregarding the 40 million in insurance you don't get back and the fitting. So more like 7-8000% more.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#152 - 2013-09-07 21:20:35 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
considering fozzie has already said he isn't happy with exhumers and wants to revisit them eventually; i wouldn't use barges as any kind of evidence in that direction.


Searching for that was actually fairly informative (though it seems to refute your interpretation if you'd like to point me a different post).


interview on tmc.


You'll have to be more specific; all I see is something about combat mining ships.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#153 - 2013-09-07 21:21:35 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Let me correct my original point then. It used to cost 5000% more to fit a gank ship... that's assuming 100 million isk base hull, disregarding the 40 million in insurance you don't get back and the fitting. So more like 7-8000% more.

Much better.
But then again, ships like Taloi and Tornados are the go-tos for high-end ganking, and with the insurance change, it actually comes out more expensive now than it did before since an ABC cost more than the old battleship insurance.
Oggat
The Adam's Family
#154 - 2013-09-07 21:21:40 UTC
Most people playing EVE would never rope themselves in to buying a Titan because they are seen as a coffin.

To me a freighter is the closest thing to a high sec coffin as it gets. From a proverbial stand point it would be like hooking a bicycle chain up to a dead whale and trying to move it across town.

Every asset in this game was designed with one, single purpose. To be destroyed. Keep that in mind when you look at your stuff in this game and you will see it from a whole new light.
Dave Stark
#155 - 2013-09-07 21:21:54 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
considering fozzie has already said he isn't happy with exhumers and wants to revisit them eventually; i wouldn't use barges as any kind of evidence in that direction.


Searching for that was actually fairly informative (though it seems to refute your interpretation if you'd like to point me a different post).


interview on tmc.


You'll have to be more specific; all I see is something about combat mining ships.


you'll have to look harder. it's the only video interview he's done on tmc.
SpoonRECKLESS
Beach Boys
The Minions.
#156 - 2013-09-07 21:35:11 UTC
Ohishi wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Rey Ajaichi wrote:
'everybody can point and shoot them' sound fair, but everybody know what the truth is Blink
Yes: that the consequences you're asking for are already in place, and more on top of that.

Please. Gankers have no fear in highsec. The system does not allow you to be safe but it allows neg 10 to slip through without problems. I say that if you are -5 or lower NPCs should pod on sight.



What? get out high sec should just be as risky as low and null. They do have risk they can't go to a trade hub must have alt or hauling service bring you the goods. Ganks happen due to dumbness I fly a 64bil ship in a msn that doesn't call for this fit. That a Tengu with under a bil can run just as good.If you want to fit the shinies on your ship you must face the risk of being a target.

Blue
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#157 - 2013-09-07 21:38:55 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
you'll have to look harder. it's the only video interview he's done on tmc.


https://www.youtube.com/results?q=tmc+CCP+fozzie+interview

I have to conclude that you're full of **** if you can't be bothered to link me anything.
Dave Stark
#158 - 2013-09-07 21:43:42 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
you'll have to look harder. it's the only video interview he's done on tmc.


https://www.youtube.com/results?q=tmc+CCP+fozzie+interview

I have to conclude that you're full of **** if you can't be bothered to link me anything.


i think you've just demonstrated how thoroughly inept you are.

i told you it's on tmc, you go to yt.
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#159 - 2013-09-07 21:50:48 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
you'll have to look harder. it's the only video interview he's done on tmc.


https://www.youtube.com/results?q=tmc+CCP+fozzie+interview

I have to conclude that you're full of **** if you can't be bothered to link me anything.


i think you've just demonstrated how thoroughly inept you are.

i told you it's on tmc, you go to yt.


I tried going to http://themittani.com/media/tmc-live-dev-talk-episode-1-ccp-fozzie first, but it just links to a LoL stream. Perhaps you should prove my ineptitude by linking it?
Dave Stark
#160 - 2013-09-07 21:52:56 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
you'll have to look harder. it's the only video interview he's done on tmc.


https://www.youtube.com/results?q=tmc+CCP+fozzie+interview

I have to conclude that you're full of **** if you can't be bothered to link me anything.


i think you've just demonstrated how thoroughly inept you are.

i told you it's on tmc, you go to yt.


I tried going to http://themittani.com/media/tmc-live-dev-talk-episode-1-ccp-fozzie first, but it just links to a LoL stream. Perhaps you should prove my ineptitude by linking it?


i've got better things to do. like reload my torp launchers while watching star trek. i'm sure you can appreciate the gravity of the situation.

alternatively; don't talk about things which you're clearly unfamiliar with.