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Consequences (?)
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Dave Stark
#101 - 2013-09-07 19:57:22 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Currently they are not, even when empty.


yes they are. i mean, i can understand you putting forwards terrible arguments, however outright lies aren't doing you any favours.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#102 - 2013-09-07 19:58:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Infinity Ziona wrote:

The difference in time between accumulating isk to buy a jump freighter and to train to use is vastly more than the amount of time required to train for a T1 catalyst and accumlate 2 million isk. As you well know.

As for Plex. Plex is sold for real life currency. It may be resold for real life currency or traded to another player to convert into isk or game time. Isk can and is reconverted back into real life currency, CCP says its not allowed but that does not mean it does not have a value based on real life currency because it does.
Do this, get banned, simple.
Quote:
Even when not breaching the EULA 20 real life dollars can be converted into 500,000,000 isk and therefore isk has a real life currency value. That could be clearly seen when it was being reported in the news that an approximately real life value $9000 titan was destroyed.
That's so people who don't play Eve have a metric to relate to, not because it has a real life value.

**totally called the double whammy, so predictable.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#103 - 2013-09-07 20:00:47 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
The difference in time between accumulating isk to buy a jump freighter and to train to use is vastly more than the amount of time required to train for a T1 catalyst and accumlate 2 million isk. As you well know.
…and the balance lies in the fact that the long training time and higher cost does not buy you any kind of invincibility. In fact, if anything, it takes too many catalysts to kill a jump freighter. You really shouldn't need 20 players just to blow up one.

Quote:
Even when not breaching the EULA 20 real life dollars can be converted into 500,000,000 isk and therefore isk has a real life currency
…equivalence, but since you can't convert the 500M ISK into real life dollars, it holds no real life value.

Quote:
A jump freighter pilot should be relatively safe in highsec when using gates
He is. The only exceptions are if he carries too much valuable cargo (thereby no longer gambling on people's miserliness), or when carrying some kind of strategic resource that other parties want to intercept (ice and isotopes).
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#104 - 2013-09-07 20:03:24 UTC  |  Edited by: S Byerley
Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Dave and a few other commonly argue that the skewed ganker/gankee balance isn't a problem because the activity isn't rampant


i've never commented on the frequency of the activity in question.


If nothing else, you spent a large deal of time on the "A freighter gets ganked every 20m!" straw man, and implied that would be much more significant. I'm fairly sure you've repeated the logic more explicitly, but I can't say I care enough to look.
Dave Stark
#105 - 2013-09-07 20:04:22 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Dave and a few other commonly argue that the skewed ganker/gankee balance isn't a problem because the activity isn't rampant


i've never commented on the frequency of the activity in question.


If nothing else, you spent a large deal of time on the "A freighter gets ganked every 20s!" straw man, and implied that would be much more significant. I'm fairly sure you've repeated the logic more explicitly, but I can't say I care enough to look.


freighters get ganked every 20 seconds?

what the hell are you talking about?
Alara IonStorm
#106 - 2013-09-07 20:05:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Infinity Ziona wrote:

A jump freighter is capable of and so intended by CCP to be able to use gates. A jump freighter pilot should be relatively safe in highsec when using gates. Currently they are not, even when empty.

That feature exists so you can enter a well scouted Lo to Hi Gate and dock it for refill. If you do other stuff you are at considerably more risk. It is your choice to take that risk, CCP gives you that option, just not a shoulder to cry on when it goes up in smoke.

Right now if used safely Jump Freighters are a relatively risk free investment. A normal Freighter is easy to afford for filling up a Jump Freighter. It's hardly game breaking to kill those people who shove a round peg in a square hole.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#107 - 2013-09-07 20:06:04 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Dave and a few other commonly argue that the skewed ganker/gankee balance isn't a problem because the activity isn't rampant


i've never commented on the frequency of the activity in question.


If nothing else, you spent a large deal of time on the "A freighter gets ganked every 20s!" straw man, and implied that would be much more significant. I'm fairly sure you've repeated the logic more explicitly, but I can't say I care enough to look.


freighters get ganked every 20 seconds?

what the hell are you talking about?


Another thread.

One of them said this and it became a catchphrase.
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#108 - 2013-09-07 20:06:26 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Dave and a few other commonly argue that the skewed ganker/gankee balance isn't a problem because the activity isn't rampant


i've never commented on the frequency of the activity in question.


If nothing else, you spent a large deal of time on the "A freighter gets ganked every 20s!" straw man, and implied that would be much more significant. I'm fairly sure you've repeated the logic more explicitly, but I can't say I care enough to look.


freighters get ganked every 20 seconds?

what the hell are you talking about?


Typo, sorry. What's an order of magnitude or two between ridiculous straw men though?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#109 - 2013-09-07 20:06:43 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Dave and a few other commonly argue that the skewed ganker/gankee balance isn't a problem because the activity isn't rampant


i've never commented on the frequency of the activity in question.


If nothing else, you spent a large deal of time on the "A freighter gets ganked every 20s!" straw man, and implied that would be much more significant. I'm fairly sure you've repeated the logic more explicitly, but I can't say I care enough to look.

That was your accidental strawman argument, not his, and it was every 20 minutes.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Dave Stark
#110 - 2013-09-07 20:08:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
baltec1 wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Dave and a few other commonly argue that the skewed ganker/gankee balance isn't a problem because the activity isn't rampant


i've never commented on the frequency of the activity in question.


If nothing else, you spent a large deal of time on the "A freighter gets ganked every 20s!" straw man, and implied that would be much more significant. I'm fairly sure you've repeated the logic more explicitly, but I can't say I care enough to look.


freighters get ganked every 20 seconds?

what the hell are you talking about?


Another thread.

One of them said this and it became a catchphrase.


oh right yes, i remember.
yeah, i didn't comment on the frequency of it. although if he wants to pretend i did, power to him.
it'll just illustrate how delusional he really is.
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#111 - 2013-09-07 20:09:22 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
That was your accidental strawman argument, not his,


I'm fairly introspective, but I'm not in the habit of making strawman arguments against myself. That'd be pretty silly.

Quote:
and it was every 20 minutes.


Lil slow mate.
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#112 - 2013-09-07 20:14:10 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
oh right yes, i remember.
yeah, i didn't comment on the frequency of it. although if he wants to pretend i did, power to him.
it'll just illustrate how delusional he really is.


You do understand that someone can search for you + the thread right?

It never even made it off the first page,

Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:

If its so easy to do then why is no one actually doing it? Hey look, it's that question you've been ignoring again!

People are doing it?

at a rate of 1 freighter every 20 mins, right?
Dave Stark
#113 - 2013-09-07 20:17:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
oh right yes, i remember.
yeah, i didn't comment on the frequency of it. although if he wants to pretend i did, power to him.
it'll just illustrate how delusional he really is.


You do understand that someone can search for you + the thread right?

It never even made it off the first page,

Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:

If its so easy to do then why is no one actually doing it? Hey look, it's that question you've been ignoring again!

People are doing it?

at a rate of 1 freighter every 20 mins, right?


i guess you've never encountered sarcasm before, right?
i was mocking you.

also technically, that was your comment, or one of the other clueless people who shouldn't be allowed to post.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#114 - 2013-09-07 20:19:55 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
That was your accidental strawman argument, not his,


I'm fairly introspective, but I'm not in the habit of making strawman arguments against myself. That'd be pretty silly.

Quote:
and it was every 20 minutes.


Lil slow mate.

You didn't even know it was a strawman until it was pointed out to you, hence the word "accidental".

As for the speed of my response, you edited your post from 20 seconds to 20 minutes at 20:05 GMT, while the forum was eating my post.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#115 - 2013-09-07 20:20:55 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
i guess you've never encountered sarcasm before, right?
i was mocking you.


And? You're still both directly commenting on the frequency and implying the frequency is important.

I guess you're right that it adequately illustrates the respective delusions between us though.
Dave Stark
#116 - 2013-09-07 20:21:18 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
i guess you've never encountered sarcasm before, right?
i was mocking you.


And? You're still both directly commenting on the frequency and implying the frequency is important.

I guess you're right that it adequately illustrates the respective delusions between us though.


wrong.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#117 - 2013-09-07 20:25:45 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
i guess you've never encountered sarcasm before, right?
i was mocking you.


And? You're still both directly commenting on the frequency and implying the frequency is important.

I guess you're right that it adequately illustrates the respective delusions between us though.

We're not commenting on the frequency, we're making fun of you for inadvertently hoisting yourself by your own petard.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#118 - 2013-09-07 20:26:27 UTC  |  Edited by: S Byerley
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
You didn't even know it was a strawman until it was pointed out to you, hence the word "accidental".


Making an ambiguous statement and making a straw man argument are very different thing. For starters, the attention payed to the former tends to fall off with the level of discourse because it's easier for the other party to interpret what you meant (by giving you the benefit of doubt) than for both of you to express complex topics with no ambiguity.

Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
We're not commenting on the frequency, we're making fun of you for inadvertently hoisting yourself by your own petard.


Perhaps you can explain the basis of the ridicule if the frequency is inconsequential? I can't tell if you're being difficult or if you're just exercising your historically lacking reading comprehension.
Dave Stark
#119 - 2013-09-07 20:32:28 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Perhaps you can explain the basis of the ridicule if the frequency is inconsequential?


you, or some one else, implied that the frequency was something that it wasn't and as such that it was important. clearly, it isn't, hence why we were poking fun at the comment.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#120 - 2013-09-07 20:34:20 UTC
Anyway ignoring the trolls who are apparently incapable of logic in their replies (and who are terrible at math causing them to get fired from their job) the Lofty scam was a scam that involved inviting a gullible pilot to fleet to "help me kill the rats" in missions. The inviting pilot would be at war with an alt or friend outside of fleet. When the newly fleeted helper joined the fleet the alt or friend would now be able to attack that pilot as he now shared the war flag.

This was nerfed. This tactic, at least relied on an action of a pilot to be successful, however it was still nerfed.

The 2 million per pilot ganking that is occurring is in my opinion much worse then the Lofty scam, it does not rely on any choice other then that the freighter undocks, doesn't require the freighter to even have loot in its hold as a balancing factor. It will be nerfed.

I would expect to be seeing an intelligent CCP paying a lot more attention to its PvE and high sec customers over the next year for obvious reasons. I doubt they want to be left only with low brows when Star Citizen comes out.


CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)