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Upgraded to Drake, can't solo PVE anymore
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Eli Atreides
Doomheim
#21 - 2013-09-07 18:25:44 UTC
Thank you all for the fitting suggestions / skill training / advice, will try these and give it another shot. I did not realize how important resistances were. And yes I was incorrect about the heatsinks, not sure how I overlooked that obvious mistake. Thanks
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2013-09-07 19:13:17 UTC
If you're getting jammed, ECCM is only one way to counter it. FoF missiles & drones are also incredibly useful.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
NinjaStyle
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#23 - 2013-09-07 19:16:55 UTC
Eli Atreides wrote:
I have been solo'ing Level 2 missions for about a week and a half now and enjoying them. I had a Caracal fitted with launchers and it was working well for the missions. A few I would need to warp out once or twice to recharge shields and warp back in but I had no real troubles.

Tonight was a great moment as, after weeks of mining, I finally upgraded to a Drake. I loaded it up with launchers and drones and shield boosters and and took it out on repeat lvl 2 security mission (I had done this same mission, exact same text, same rewards, before, in the caracal).

...and got wrecked. I mean within 10-20 seconds I was completely jammed and getting my structure demolished, so I warped out.

Okay, I just have a crap fitting, right? Well I spent all night jumping to systems to try new gear, trying ECCM (which did help with the jamming), new types of launchers, rapid light, heavy, heavy assault. I added heatsinks. I added shield boosters. I added shield extenders. I added damage controllers. I added armor repairers. I added every item I could think of or find in the market. I have upgraded every skill I can find relating to combat.

My eyes are bleeding.

My Drake cannot survive more than 20 seconds or so in this exact repeat of the exact same level 2 mission I ran just a few systems away in a Caracal.

Upgrading to a better ship, with more damage, more shields (WAY more, my Caracal had maybe 2k shields, this Drake has 10k shields with the extenders I added and this is the same mission at the same level in the same region I beat with a Caracal), more tanking, and more skills has made me unable to play the game now (at least, solo PVE) because the instance difficulty seems to increase (in an unbalanced way).

Why?

(And please don't tell me to join a corp or fleet up. There should at least be some semblance of balanced solo PVE. I don't want to fleet up, I'm enjoying solo PVE, and I was enjoying it very much in my Caracal. But now suddenly (after getting a better ship?!) I can't do the one thing in the game I was enjoying. Can't begin to express how frustrating it is to invest a month of my time in a game that suddenly goes completely out of balance to the point where I can't continue playing.)


Please understand this: BC's have been so heavily nerfed they are no longer a properly flyable ship that can actually contend with others of even smaller size ships (Cruisers) and thus we have the Age of no Battlecruisers at all!

Minus the Large gun using once ofc because they have nice uses still.
Eli Atreides
Doomheim
#24 - 2013-09-07 19:58:48 UTC
Ok, well, I give up.

Amhra Rho wrote:
Something's wrong somewheres. Both my high-lvls do lvl 2 mission in BCs - Myrmidon and Cyclone - and neither of them even really gets redded up.


Something definitely seems wrong. It's understandable that EVE would bump up the difficulty when I enter a lvl 2 instance with a BC instead of my Caracal, and I also understand that solo PVE is not really the focal point of EVE, but this is absurd.

I refitted several configurations based on the advice here. I was able to train a few add'tl skills as well. There is no reason this same mission should be a cakewalk in my Caracal and completely impossible in a Drake. The hardeners/resist modules helped but I am still getting pummeled. After refitting on my first try I thought I might survive but then:

"Pirates have emerged from the shadows!"
"Pirates have emerged from the shadows!"

and the slaughter/jamming continued until I had to frantically recall drones and warp out.

I cleared this same mission in a cruiser with 2k of shields. Now with 5x drones, an extra launcher, improved skills, and 10k shields (including the thermal/kinetic resist modules suggested, and ballistic modules, etc.) I am approaching structure damage within a minute or so.
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#25 - 2013-09-07 20:55:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Shalua Rui
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Also a Drake is bonused for Heavy Missiles and Heavy Assault Missiles, both of which will have trouble delivering damage to the NPCs commonly found in level 2 mission. Think trying to hit a guy on a motorbike going 90mph, with a 16 inch naval cannon.


Exactly that: You shouldn't even be doing L2 missions with a Drake, since you are mostly pitted against frigs and fast cruisers, targets that can swarm/disable you pretty quickly without you having the ability to do much about it, since they are too fast/small to hit effectively with HMs/HAMs. If you wanna go Drake, get up your missile and shield skills, fit hardeners and invuls and go for a massive, passive tank, then you can savely do L3s and even some L4s.

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#26 - 2013-09-07 21:04:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Eli Atreides wrote:
Ok, well, I give up.

Amhra Rho wrote:
Something's wrong somewheres. Both my high-lvls do lvl 2 mission in BCs - Myrmidon and Cyclone - and neither of them even really gets redded up.


Something definitely seems wrong. It's understandable that EVE would bump up the difficulty when I enter a lvl 2 instance with a BC instead of my Caracal, and I also understand that solo PVE is not really the focal point of EVE, but this is absurd.

I refitted several configurations based on the advice here. I was able to train a few add'tl skills as well. There is no reason this same mission should be a cakewalk in my Caracal and completely impossible in a Drake. The hardeners/resist modules helped but I am still getting pummeled. After refitting on my first try I thought I might survive but then:

"Pirates have emerged from the shadows!"
"Pirates have emerged from the shadows!"

and the slaughter/jamming continued until I had to frantically recall drones and warp out.

I cleared this same mission in a cruiser with 2k of shields. Now with 5x drones, an extra launcher, improved skills, and 10k shields (including the thermal/kinetic resist modules suggested, and ballistic modules, etc.) I am approaching structure damage within a minute or so.
The difficulty hasn't been bumped up, the mission is exactly the same as when you did it in the Caracal, your problem is that you're trying to swat flies, with a sledgehammer.

The guy with the Myrmidon is able to do them, because his primary weapons are drones, and he can fit any guns he wants.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#27 - 2013-09-07 21:06:37 UTC
I have a new char I am training up atm, and the difference in skill requirements to fly a caracal effectively in a mission and a drake in a mission is noticeable. I spent so long on this char sitting about in a drake, I forgot the jump is almost as big as Drake - Raven.

Get the shield skills up to 4 or so, check out the wiki uni page for a rough fit if you aren't sure what to go for, and train up HAMs /HMs and some drones.

Fluffy Bunny Pic!

Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd
Nulli Secunda
#28 - 2013-09-07 21:13:47 UTC
Eli Atreides wrote:
Ok, well, I give up.

Something definitely seems wrong. It's understandable that EVE would bump up the difficulty when I enter a lvl 2 instance with a BC instead of my Caracal, and I also understand that solo PVE is not really the focal point of EVE, but this is absurd.

I refitted several configurations based on the advice here. I was able to train a few add'tl skills as well. There is no reason this same mission should be a cakewalk in my Caracal and completely impossible in a Drake. The hardeners/resist modules helped but I am still getting pummeled. After refitting on my first try I thought I might survive but then:

"Pirates have emerged from the shadows!"
"Pirates have emerged from the shadows!"

and the slaughter/jamming continued until I had to frantically recall drones and warp out.

I cleared this same mission in a cruiser with 2k of shields. Now with 5x drones, an extra launcher, improved skills, and 10k shields (including the thermal/kinetic resist modules suggested, and ballistic modules, etc.) I am approaching structure damage within a minute or so.

Missions are not adjusted with regard to anything you bring to the mission (ships, mods, skills etc.). The "bump up" you notice is a side effect of your skills that define how efficient you can use your ship and fitting.

Before you give up, you might want to try this (and no compromises please):

[Drake, passive Shield]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Shield Recharger II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II

'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher
'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher
[empty high slot]

Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I
Medium Core Defense Field Purger I

You should train Caldari Battlecruiser to 3 at the very least, better to 4, Shield Management to 4 and Shield Operation to 4 or 5 to help with this fit. This fit should be cap stable or at least close to being cap stable for you. If not you need to invest some training in your cap skills. If you have cap problems you can switch one Invuln II for a mission specific shield hardener (T2 please). You also need Target Navigation Prediction and Guided Missile Precision plus the skills that give better rate of fire and more damage, or it might take a while to clear the mission.

And use it together with this: http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=MissionReports. Look for "triggers" and "jammers" in the mission description. Save triggers for last and use your drones to kill jammers asap.
Sacramenti
Doom Generation
Best Intentions.
#29 - 2013-09-07 21:26:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Sacramenti
Eli Atreides wrote:
Ok, well, I give up.

Amhra Rho wrote:
Something's wrong somewheres. Both my high-lvls do lvl 2 mission in BCs - Myrmidon and Cyclone - and neither of them even really gets redded up.


Something definitely seems wrong. It's understandable that EVE would bump up the difficulty when I enter a lvl 2 instance with a BC instead of my Caracal, and I also understand that solo PVE is not really the focal point of EVE, but this is absurd.

I refitted several configurations based on the advice here. I was able to train a few add'tl skills as well. There is no reason this same mission should be a cakewalk in my Caracal and completely impossible in a Drake. The hardeners/resist modules helped but I am still getting pummeled. After refitting on my first try I thought I might survive but then:

"Pirates have emerged from the shadows!"
"Pirates have emerged from the shadows!"

and the slaughter/jamming continued until I had to frantically recall drones and warp out.

I cleared this same mission in a cruiser with 2k of shields. Now with 5x drones, an extra launcher, improved skills, and 10k shields (including the thermal/kinetic resist modules suggested, and ballistic modules, etc.) I am approaching structure damage within a minute or so.


You seem new to eve based on your terminology.

First:The caracal is half the size and twice as fast, negating as much as ~80-90% damage. larger ships multiply bad skill. Wait until you have t2 tank skills and BCUs, or access to lvl 3s. In eve, bigger is not always better

Second: missions in eve are basically the same no matter what ship you use. Also what you call "solo pve" is just mission grinding, and it is almost always solo.

Welcome to eve, enjoy the stay.
Ka'Narlist
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#30 - 2013-09-07 21:52:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Ka'Narlist
Eli Atreides wrote:
Ok, well, I give up.

Thats because you have no clue how eve works. This is not wow where you just have to get a bigger toy and everything is fine. You have to to use the right tool for the right job and a Battlecruiser is the wrong tool for level 2 missions because you only meet enemies in frigates or destroyer which a BC has problems hiiting and/or applying damage to. This also has nothing to do with "nerfs" and "BCs being useless" lol.

You dont want to work with other players in a multiplayer game so your only chance is to read more guids and wikis to get a hang on eve mechanics...or just give up...
Angeal MacNova
Holefood Inc.
Warriors of the Blood God
#31 - 2013-09-07 22:18:28 UTC
With the skills you have trained up to the level they are at, when you up from the cruiser to battle cruiser, you are actually making yourself weaker and not stronger. As you continue to skill up in the right areas, this will turn around. As people have said, right tool for the job but the right tool is not necessarily the right ship but also the right fitting. You want to use light missiles on frigates and destroyers. Only by increasing you missile skills enough (target navigation prediction is a good one for smaller ships) will those heavy missiles start to be more effective against smaller targets.

What's also been mentioned is the resistance and regen. These two compliment each other quite well as it becomes possible to have an unbreakable tank. You can sit there in the mission and not have to worry about killing off as many as you can before they drain your shields or before you need to warp out. Instead you'll be able to warp in, get aggro, and then go grab a coffee.

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.
Mathias Orsen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2013-09-07 22:40:19 UTC
Loved the title. Truth is, no matter what ship you were flying before, a Drake is not an upgrade.
Trevor Dalech
Nobody in Local
Of Sound Mind
#33 - 2013-09-08 05:29:42 UTC
I forgot which of the millions of "rules of EVE" this was, but:

Rule # ??? : Bigger is not better!

In fact, when you're talking level two missions, the smaller the better, as you will mostly be fighting frigates.
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#34 - 2013-09-08 06:30:40 UTC
I can only imagine the OPs skills must suck, because I can wreck Frigates with Cruise Missiles, so Heavy Missiles should be ripping them to bits. The OP should consider an active tanked Drake, as that'll allow the fitting of two TPs or two Webs to taste. The Drake is still stupidly tanky, so if you can't survive a Lvl 2 then you really need to train more.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#35 - 2013-09-08 06:31:32 UTC
Trevor Dalech wrote:
Rule # ??? : Bigger is not better!

In fact, when you're talking level two missions, the smaller the better, as you will mostly be fighting frigates.


There's no reason a Drake with HMs can't tear through Lvl 2s.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
John Ratcliffe
Tradors'R'us
IChooseYou Alliance
#36 - 2013-09-08 06:32:38 UTC
Mathias Orsen wrote:
Loved the title. Truth is, no matter what ship you were flying before, a Drake is not an upgrade.


A Drake is lovely, I used one for ages. They are still nice, even after the nerf.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
Evangelina Nolen
Sama Guild
#37 - 2013-09-08 08:12:13 UTC
Read up on tanking, sig & speed tanking, hardners, use EFT, mission reports, etc etc
Properly Train for tengu... For a new player, the tengu is completely worth it if you have the correct skills.
Moneta Curran
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2013-09-08 08:59:38 UTC
Evangelina Nolen wrote:
Read up on tanking, sig & speed tanking, hardners, use EFT, mission reports, etc etc
Properly Train for tengu... For a new player, the tengu is completely worth it if you have the correct skills.


Come on.. why should everyone and his alt train Caldari cruiser 5 and get a freaking Tengu..
Do you seriously think he needs to invest hundreds of millions to run ~missions~ ?!

The drake is perfectly fine, you can run level 4s in one (slowly) if you fit it correctly.
His only issues are his terrible fit and his lack of proper support skills.

OP just google 'passive drake' and take it from there.
Morphisat
Millard Innovation Inc
#39 - 2013-09-08 09:07:02 UTC
The drake is more fitted towards lvl 3 missions. You might want to stick to your caracal for Lvl 2. Also don't put shield boosters on your drake. It's supposed to passively tank. Also you might want to look at your passive shield regen skills, you need those to fly a drake properly.

If you do insist on flying a drake in a lvl 2 mission, fit a target painter and use drones on the little stuff.

PPL above have posted proper drake fits, replace the expensive Arbalast launcher with something cheaper if you can't afford those.
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#40 - 2013-09-08 09:17:33 UTC
Moneta Curran wrote:
His only issues are his terrible fit and his lack of proper support skills.


That's where most people's problems in the game come from, in the beginning... EVE just isn't for the impatient. Getting proper skills takes time and building working fits takes research... so yea: The ship is not an issue.

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
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