Wormholes

I was referring to the envelope of performance, not that you can get everything on every hull with ever subsystem. You can get 250K and 580 DPS - not 250K EHP and 1200 DPS. Try getting 250K EHP on an Astarte and any DPS at all.

The changes to the command subsystems and rebalancing of best bonuses toward the command ships has addressed most of the worst parts of T3's. But not all. And, just quickly, the multiple bonuses of the T3 subs now spreads the capabilities across 3 links instead of 1, so you get more though less extreme boosts, which really isn't a nerf it is flattening the curve. Hardly worth the QQ on the feedback thread.

I don't have a lot of problems with T3's as a rule, but there are some exceptions.

Lets take the Proteus. For example this behemoth is a wee bit OTT. Granted you probably won't be dropping HG slaves in w-space on account of bubbles so you won't quite get carrier-level tank very often. Even so, something with 129K EHP, the sig of a squirrel and the gank of a BC.

That's off-piste, it is rabid dog territory. It needs some rebalancing even taking into account you have to drop a billion ISK on it to get the 'vanilla' all 5's performance envelope out of it. Its not like a billion ISK is hard to come by.

This opens up the whole price comparison argument. A billion ISK is a lot of money, you say, but this could take on any pirate BS any day of the week (in its role of camping gates; web+scram then get in at 500) solo, let alone with even a sole Execquror repping it to make it spazmo OTT.

Where should T3's be in terms of performance and ISK for performance? To my mind, probably not in the 200K EHP and 800 DPS and tiny sig space - you should have to compromise, not be able to do it all, better than anything else, all at once.

You will see these outliers trimmed out. That won't nerf them into oblivion, mind you. For instance, I would expect that for 750M ISK you'll get cloaky nullified T3's with 50-0K EHP tanks and 200-400 DPS. Or you'd go EWAR (ECMgu, web loki, neut legion, tackle prot) and EHP, or covops or command subs.

There also needs to be some buffs to some T3 and some subs. The RR sub, for instance, should get rep range to double the range of the transporter, to make it moderately useful for ships aside from RRGu's. The Proteus needs a decent drone bay and the loki needs better missile subs.

The end result should be that you lose the egregious monstrosities and the class remains potent, flexible, expensive and worthwhile. Also, refitting at POSs (but not carriers!) should be possible, to counteract any soft nerfs and allow J-space to be a place where you can reconfigure a T3 to adapt to a fluid tactical environment without having to have 4 different T3's.

Proteus max DPS is now 1200. I'd see that coming back to the 800 range.

The complaints about range are just completely missing the point. Unless you believe that lasers are a far superior weapon system to hybrids in general, there is no reason for the Proteus to get 6 guns, 50% damage, 50% range, and 50m3 of drones while the Legion gets the first three with no drones.

The other 2 cloaky t3s that actually work can do their stuff from range tho - the prot has to get in close reducing its chances for escape so I don't think the extra tank and damage is really a problem. The somewhat limited options for cloaky legion is something that possibly needs more looking at but at the same time I'm not entirely convinced that all cloaky t3s should be tank + dps boats but have some role flavors each. Possibly it would be enough just to give the cloaky legion similiar drone capabilities to the t1/2 counterpart though 150/50 is somewhat stepping on the pilgrim's toes so maybe 100/50 as a compromise.

As much as anything dread blapping stems from them being ridiculously good at killing sub-caps when properly supported and not so much from people bringing hard to kill T3s.

I'm sure you are aware that the Dread blapping issues, while not directly part of this topic, stems directly from nerds bringing crap loads of over tanked, obnoxiously hard to kill T3's everywhere all the freaking time. Making them less of a complete pain in the balls to kill would likely see people getting more fights as there would likely be more than one way to kill them where currrently there is not. Granted that other way would likely wind up being alpha tier3's, which will likely turn into a whole new threadnaught but w/e.

So... your arguing "nerf T3s because if T3s weren't so hard to kill nobody would use tracking dreads".

You don't have a clue about human nature do you... you think that just because dreads aren't a necessity they wouldn't be used? We bring T3s because what else CAN we bring?