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Bastion Module Workshop Thread
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Patrice Macmahon
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-09-06 16:46:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Patrice Macmahon
READ THIS BEFORE POSTING:

(1)

Complaints for or against the bastion module itself needs to go into this official CCP Thread: [Winter] Murader rebalancing

Any posts saying the module concept itself sucks / is horrible, needs to die - will be considered off topic / ignored / politely requested to be deleted.

(2) This is my attempt to help kick start a workshop / brainstorming thread about how the Bastion module COULD work, and help generate player driven concepts for it's function / implementation. This will help give a clear point of view on design without being drowned out by the many other issues surrounding the Murader rebalance.

As a workshop thread please:

a) Stay on Topic
b) No personal attacks
c) If you criticize it, suggest an alternative
d) Play nice!

*********************

What is the bastion module?

The Bastion module is a 'not yet implimented' and 'not yet designed' module proposal from CCP to the player base.

It is similar to a Triage or Siege Module used for Carriers and Dreadnaughts, only these will only be mountable on a Murader Class Hull.

Basic Rules to a "Triage Module"

- Only one triage module per ship
- Ship Becomes Immobile
- Ship cannot Jump, Warp, or dock while module is active
- Ship can no longer receive beneficial remote style modules (Tracking links, Remote Reps)
- Ship is immune to Electronic warfare
- Ship can still be effected by capacitor warfare (I think)


- Ship receives specific role oriented bonuses while in siege mode.

***************************

Current Fully Fleshed Ideas (I will post more as they come in)

Original Bastion Module Proposal - CCP Ytterbium
Berserker / Long Tom Varients - (Patrice Macmahon)

Semi Related Threads / Concepts:

Murauder "Mini titans" including Miniature DD - (HolidayDerp derf)
[Suggestion] Muraders - SOL Ranger - Way outside the box idea. Serious balance issues, but interesting.

****************************





Thanks guys!

 "Much of this is crystallised in our philosophy, or as others call it "the Intaki Faith". We simply call it Ida - the literal translation is "to consider", and is a good description of the Intaki." 
Patrice Macmahon
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-09-06 16:46:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Patrice Macmahon
Here is the criteria and situations my vision of the Bastion Module.


Muraders themselves remain essentially in tact according to their current Status on TQ.


**********
4 guns X 100% bonus
Tractor Bonus

T2 Resists

Battle Ship Skill

Active Repair Bonus (20-37.5%)
Weapon Damage Bonus (25%)

Murader Skill

Damage Enhancing Skill (Tracking / Explosion velocity / Explosion Radius)
Damage Projection Skill (Optimal / Fall off / Flight Time / Missile Speed)
*************

Yes, I removed the web bonus. But it is going to come back on one of the Bastion Module effects themselves.

My view of the Bastion module is that we dramatically increase the ships Damage and Damage application WITHOUT granting additional Tanking ability. This makes the Modules a very interesting price to pay to suddenly become a massive juggernaught. It would really create a risk VS reward scenario.

My numbers are probably off. I picked round numbers to help make it clear what I am going for.

************

Bastion Module A - Long Tom

Duration: 90 seconds

x2 Bonus to weapon Damage
x0.5 penalty to rate of fire
+50% bonus to Target Locking Speed
+30% to optimal range / falloff range
-5% pentalty to all resistances (Subtractive)

[This would mean total DPS has increased 100%, but it fires slower)

Long Range Mega Damage. Siege mode lasts longer (easier to prep for a counter tackle if they pick up to move). Resistances are lowered while in siege mode to deter close range deployment.

The penalty to fire time would limit it's use as a close range brawler (giving people more time to crawl under your guns in between volleys.

This module is viable for both PVP and PVE

*************


Bastion Module B - The Berserker

Duration: 60 seconds

-20% weapon damage penalty
+100% weapon damage rate of fire
+100% tracking speed bonus
+50% to range of webs
+50% to speed reduction (bonus) of webs
Locking range is capped to 35km


Charge in, grab someone, activate the module and blast away till everyone gets outside of your locking range. You then have to de-active, pick up and move, and wash rinse repeat. ^.^

Its deliberately close range - so your blaster / auto cannon / pulse and torpedo boats go here.

This setup can be used for both PVP and PVE

*******************

There are more ideas out there - But with this - you get to put yourself into an incredibly specific role and would put muraders on the field of combat.

Ideas?

 "Much of this is crystallised in our philosophy, or as others call it "the Intaki Faith". We simply call it Ida - the literal translation is "to consider", and is a good description of the Intaki." 
Patrice Macmahon
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-09-06 16:46:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Patrice Macmahon
* Reserved *

 "Much of this is crystallised in our philosophy, or as others call it "the Intaki Faith". We simply call it Ida - the literal translation is "to consider", and is a good description of the Intaki." 
Patrice Macmahon
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-09-07 14:56:00 UTC
*Polite bump*

 "Much of this is crystallised in our philosophy, or as others call it "the Intaki Faith". We simply call it Ida - the literal translation is "to consider", and is a good description of the Intaki." 
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#5 - 2013-09-07 14:59:20 UTC
*pats on back*
its ok man.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#6 - 2013-09-07 15:26:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Fail1:
Quote:
- Ship Becomes Immobile
- Ship can no longer receive beneficial remote style modules (Tracking links, Remote Reps)
....
My view of the Bastion module is that we dramatically increase the ships Damage and Damage application WITHOUT granting additional Tanking ability.
...
-5% pentalty to all resistances (Subtractive)

makes this variant obsolete. Will make it useless in both PvE and PvP.

Fail2:
Quote:
x2 Bonus to weapon Damage
x0.5 penalty to rate of fire
[This would mean total DPS has increased 100%, but it fires slower)

results on 0(zero,null,nein,no) DPS increase: if you double damage and halve rate of fire (double cycle time) it'll cancel itself out, but your alpha strike will be doubled. You can blame game for using RoF terminology everywhere instead of cycle time.

Fail3:
Quote:
-20% weapon damage penalty
+100% weapon damage rate of fire

leads to infinite DPS, unless you meant to halve weapon cycle time but in that case you get +60% DPS (160%)
in conjunction with
Quote:
+100% tracking speed bonus
+50% to range of webs
+50% to speed reduction (bonus) of webs

is way too OP.

Also "Bastion" is a fortification by definition and should provide tanking bonuses and damage projection/application, not damage increase, else it'll die in a fire once you activate this mode: you'll take increased amount of damage from NPCs (as you dont move) and you'll be useless in PvP as no logi are able to help you survive those 90/60 sec of 'Siege'.

As i understand CCP tries to make Marauders viable in both PvE and PvP, while retaining their focus on active tanking, which will fail unless they do something about survival in "Bastion" mode (for PvP).

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.
Patrice Macmahon
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-09-07 18:07:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Patrice Macmahon
@Kirimeena

So what do I need to do to change my numbers to accurately reflect what I am wanting to do?

+200% damage
+100% rate of fire penalty

I realize the numbers are wonky and could use a little help speaking in plain English for readability.

Mind helping me re-write it for clarity?


The caviate for the "Berserker module" is that it would lock you down to relatively close range. 35 KM or less. Meaning that the minute you saw a Murader go "Berserk" you know you need to pick up and move away from the ship to get to safety.

****************


The idea here is that (though gun damage) a 'Tanky' murader will push approximately 800 or so DPS with a Long Range weapon system. If you doubled the damage output you would push it to 1600 dps, which is above Faction Pirate ship level. As a long range weapons platform frequency of shots fired isn't as important, So we will cut it's rate of fire in half - This would help encourage that the mode is deployed long range.

The actual bonus / final DPS output needs tweaking to bring into balance, I'm starting with round numbers to make it easy to see the idea I'm pushing out. If you have better number to make this concept work, lets bring them in line.


As for theory : Why does a siege module HAVE to increase tank? We already gain imunity to EWAR in my varation, and the hull is designed to tank it up anyhow. With a damage multiplying mechanic you can shift the emphasis away from damage modules and more to the tanking modules.

If I am going to "Lock Myself in Position" - I don't want to be able to last an extra 2 minutes... I want to be able to kill the aggressive party faster than I would normally. I'm trying to turn the idea of a Triage module on it's head - and let it do something unique.

 "Much of this is crystallised in our philosophy, or as others call it "the Intaki Faith". We simply call it Ida - the literal translation is "to consider", and is a good description of the Intaki."