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High sec, low, sec and nosec.

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Marc Shi
Red Phoenix Rising
#1 - 2013-09-05 17:56:58 UTC
Hi all,

Please excuse my ignorance in some of these matters as I am a newcomer to EvE.

I've been reading a lot about how to get people to 0.0 and low sec and how many people stay in high sec. I see a lot of posts about people getting ganked and I even met someone last night claiming to represent the "New Order" where you must pay for protection...isn't that mafia?

To be completely honest here. What gives anyone the right to determine what I do with my monthly $$$$ and my enjoyment of the game. I mean if I want to spend all my time mining in highsec, what should it matter to someone in 0.0 or low sec.

If I have a 50mil isk mining ship, I wouldn't take it to low sec without bringing along some company along.

I guess what I am saying as a newb, I don't get the whole argument about why gankers really want to press on miners in highsec. I pay my monthly fee to play like everyone else, why does it matter at all what I choose to do?
bloodknight2
Revenu.Quebec
#2 - 2013-09-05 18:03:13 UTC
This is Eve. You can pay the ****** selling you a permit to let you mine or you can refuse. It is up to you. You can do what you want. It is your money and your decision. Same thing for them. They pay their subs, so they can do what they want. Like ganking miners who refuse buying a permit.

If you mine in amarr space, i'm selling a mining permit half the price of The code.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#3 - 2013-09-05 18:05:28 UTC
Marc Shi wrote:
Hi all,

Please excuse my ignorance in some of these matters as I am a newcomer to EvE.

I've been reading a lot about how to get people to 0.0 and low sec and how many people stay in high sec. I see a lot of posts about people getting ganked and I even met someone last night claiming to represent the "New Order" where you must pay for protection...isn't that mafia?

To be completely honest here. What gives anyone the right to determine what I do with my monthly $$$$ and my enjoyment of the game. I mean if I want to spend all my time mining in highsec, what should it matter to someone in 0.0 or low sec.

If I have a 50mil isk mining ship, I wouldn't take it to low sec without bringing along some company along.

I guess what I am saying as a newb, I don't get the whole argument about why gankers really want to press on miners in highsec. I pay my monthly fee to play like everyone else, why does it matter at all what I choose to do?


Gankers kill people in this game for the same reason I run over HOs in grand theft auto. It's a video game. Don't be a Ho.
Tron 3K
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-09-05 18:05:52 UTC
Marc Shi wrote:
Hi all,

Please excuse my ignorance in some of these matters as I am a newcomer to EvE.

I've been reading a lot about how to get people to 0.0 and low sec and how many people stay in high sec. I see a lot of posts about people getting ganked and I even met someone last night claiming to represent the "New Order" where you must pay for protection...isn't that mafia?

To be completely honest here. What gives anyone the right to determine what I do with my monthly $$$$ and my enjoyment of the game. I mean if I want to spend all my time mining in highsec, what should it matter to someone in 0.0 or low sec.

If I have a 50mil isk mining ship, I wouldn't take it to low sec without bringing along some company along.

I guess what I am saying as a newb, I don't get the whole argument about why gankers really want to press on miners in highsec. I pay my monthly fee to play like everyone else, why does it matter at all what I choose to do?

Harry has alts! God help us..
Tron 3K
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2013-09-05 18:06:33 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Marc Shi wrote:
Hi all,

Please excuse my ignorance in some of these matters as I am a newcomer to EvE.

I've been reading a lot about how to get people to 0.0 and low sec and how many people stay in high sec. I see a lot of posts about people getting ganked and I even met someone last night claiming to represent the "New Order" where you must pay for protection...isn't that mafia?

To be completely honest here. What gives anyone the right to determine what I do with my monthly $$$$ and my enjoyment of the game. I mean if I want to spend all my time mining in highsec, what should it matter to someone in 0.0 or low sec.

If I have a 50mil isk mining ship, I wouldn't take it to low sec without bringing along some company along.

I guess what I am saying as a newb, I don't get the whole argument about why gankers really want to press on miners in highsec. I pay my monthly fee to play like everyone else, why does it matter at all what I choose to do?


Gankers kill people in this game for the same reason I run over HOs in grand theft auto. It's a video game. Don't be a Ho.

Should screw them, then run them over.. Get your health and then get your money back..
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#6 - 2013-09-05 18:08:51 UTC
Marc Shi wrote:
I pay my monthly fee to play like everyone else, why does it matter at all what I choose to do?


Well, one of the main feauture of EVE is just that anything players chose to do it matters and inpacts, in a way or another, the game world.
Mac Munoz
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-09-05 18:15:28 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Marc Shi wrote:
Hi all,

Please excuse my ignorance in some of these matters as I am a newcomer to EvE.

I've been reading a lot about how to get people to 0.0 and low sec and how many people stay in high sec. I see a lot of posts about people getting ganked and I even met someone last night claiming to represent the "New Order" where you must pay for protection...isn't that mafia?

To be completely honest here. What gives anyone the right to determine what I do with my monthly $$$$ and my enjoyment of the game. I mean if I want to spend all my time mining in highsec, what should it matter to someone in 0.0 or low sec.

If I have a 50mil isk mining ship, I wouldn't take it to low sec without bringing along some company along.

I guess what I am saying as a newb, I don't get the whole argument about why gankers really want to press on miners in highsec. I pay my monthly fee to play like everyone else, why does it matter at all what I choose to do?


Gankers kill people in this game for the same reason I run over HOs in grand theft auto. It's a video game. Don't be a Ho.


You win all the internets for the day.
Shander Maxum
Shander Maxum Universal Ltd.
#8 - 2013-09-05 18:15:51 UTC
Marc Shi wrote:
Hi all,

Please excuse my ignorance in some of these matters as I am a newcomer to EvE.

I've been reading a lot about how to get people to 0.0 and low sec and how many people stay in high sec. I see a lot of posts about people getting ganked and I even met someone last night claiming to represent the "New Order" where you must pay for protection...isn't that mafia?

To be completely honest here. What gives anyone the right to determine what I do with my monthly $$$$ and my enjoyment of the game. I mean if I want to spend all my time mining in highsec, what should it matter to someone in 0.0 or low sec.

If I have a 50mil isk mining ship, I wouldn't take it to low sec without bringing along some company along.

I guess what I am saying as a newb, I don't get the whole argument about why gankers really want to press on miners in highsec. I pay my monthly fee to play like everyone else, why does it matter at all what I choose to do?



Don't others hit your ball out of the way if you're playing billiards/pool ?

The game is not designed in a way that one person's behvior does not interfere with another.

You might not reallly realizie it.. but when you mine you are actually being competitive and reducing the income of other miners when you bring your supply to market.. they could demand more isk per hour without you.....


The fate of one player economically is interlaced with the motivations and actions of others.. losing a ship instead of getting lower prices is just more overt.

You must also learn not to take it personally if there is a person on the other side gloating.

You are still exactly the same person no matter what they say or think about you.. do not gage your self worth on the esteem you get from others or from how others treat you. Be above them and look quaintly on them as a biologist would look at germs in a petri dish... perhaps germs that might sometimes infect you with a cold.. but germs whom you should pay no attention to in terms of personality
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-09-05 18:17:16 UTC
Racketeering is completely legitimate gameplay

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Leigh Akiga
Kuhri Innovations
#10 - 2013-09-05 18:21:52 UTC
Some people play this game against AI (PVE)

And others play against other people (PVP) which takes many many forms (META)

The rest is schadenfreude
Marc Shi
Red Phoenix Rising
#11 - 2013-09-05 18:27:46 UTC
Shander Maxum wrote:
[quote=Marc Shi]Hi all,

Don't others hit your ball out of the way if you're playing billiards/pool ?

The game is not designed in a way that one person's behvior does not interfere with another.

You might not reallly realizie it.. but when you mine you are actually being competitive and reducing the income of other miners when you bring your supply to market.. they could demand more isk per hour without you.....


The fate of one player economically is interlaced with the motivations and actions of others.. losing a ship instead of getting lower prices is just more overt.

You must also learn not to take it personally if there is a person on the other side gloating.

You are still exactly the same person no matter what they say or think about you.. do not gage your self worth on the esteem you get from others or from how others treat you. Be above them and look quaintly on them as a biologist would look at germs in a petri dish... perhaps germs that might sometimes infect you with a cold.. but germs whom you should pay no attention to in terms of personality


I guess I was taken a bit off guard last night when this guy was explaining the whole ganking miner bumping thing. Based upon my previous mmo experience, I wholeheartedly agree that botters need to be removed from play. But paying to be protected? Pfft, I like PvP, I'll take my chances and like it.

I didn't really think far enough into the process when it comes to mining. I was thinking of becoming more of an industrialist/trader. My newb skill set seems to make me mine to make $$$$ primarily because running missions, you have potential ship loss and maintenance expenses, so mining seems more attractive from a time vs isk vs risk formula.

At only a few days old there doesn't seem to be many opportunities to make isk at my level besides missions and mining. Am I missing something?
Dave Stark
#12 - 2013-09-05 18:30:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Andski wrote:
Racketeering is completely legitimate gameplay


no it's not, it stops me playing eve like a single player game without having to interact with other people!
it should be banned!

and i'm right because i pay my monthly subscription fee!
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#13 - 2013-09-05 18:48:42 UTC
If you want to make ISK, mining is a stupid waste of time, as is running missions.

Try trading, suicide ganking or corp infiltration.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#14 - 2013-09-05 18:50:16 UTC
Marc Shi wrote:
At only a few days old there doesn't seem to be many opportunities to make isk at my level besides missions and mining. Am I missing something?

Yep. When working together with others, newbies can meaningfully contribute to a vast majority of stuff to do in Eve, be it PvE or PvP. When working solo, there are also some niche things that require little to no SP to do (and maybe even profit off them). I'm not gonna take the thread off topic, but feel free to mail me, or to ask in the New Citizens Q&A about it.

So far as racketeering, bumping, etc... "You can do anything you want" applies to everyone equally, and there are almost no barriers from doing stuff that affects other players. That means you can mine if you want, you can bump people if you want, you can demand their money if you want, you can pay them if you want, and you can shoot them if you want. However, "can" means more "are allowed to" rather than "are guaranteed to be successful at it", and that is especially true in situations with multiple people involved.

The New Order play their bumping game for attention and for money, under the guise of having some grandiose interest in the wellness of Eve and its players. When people try to get you to do something, it's usually because they have something to gain from it. Bumped by the New Order? They want money and recognition. Told to go to lowsec/nullsec? Someone either wants to have you on their side, or to have more people to shoot. Et cetera...

There is nothing you can do in Eve that cannot be screwed up by another player in some way. That's part of its charm. To be successful you need to learn how to look out for yourself, and how to look out for how to take advantage of situations and people. Good luck!

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Shander Maxum
Shander Maxum Universal Ltd.
#15 - 2013-09-05 19:14:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Shander Maxum
Marc Shi wrote:
Shander Maxum wrote:
[quote=Marc Shi]Hi all,

Don't others hit your ball out of the way if you're playing billiards/pool ?

The game is not designed in a way that one person's behvior does not interfere with another.

You might not reallly realizie it.. but when you mine you are actually being competitive and reducing the income of other miners when you bring your supply to market.. they could demand more isk per hour without you.....


The fate of one player economically is interlaced with the motivations and actions of others.. losing a ship instead of getting lower prices is just more overt.

You must also learn not to take it personally if there is a person on the other side gloating.

You are still exactly the same person no matter what they say or think about you.. do not gage your self worth on the esteem you get from others or from how others treat you. Be above them and look quaintly on them as a biologist would look at germs in a petri dish... perhaps germs that might sometimes infect you with a cold.. but germs whom you should pay no attention to in terms of personality


I guess I was taken a bit off guard last night when this guy was explaining the whole ganking miner bumping thing. Based upon my previous mmo experience, I wholeheartedly agree that botters need to be removed from play. But paying to be protected? Pfft, I like PvP, I'll take my chances and like it.

I didn't really think far enough into the process when it comes to mining. I was thinking of becoming more of an industrialist/trader. My newb skill set seems to make me mine to make $$$$ primarily because running missions, you have potential ship loss and maintenance expenses, so mining seems more attractive from a time vs isk vs risk formula.

At only a few days old there doesn't seem to be many opportunities to make isk at my level besides missions and mining. Am I missing something?


This is a social game.

When I was still in my trial period, I realized that to play the game for what it really is I needed to find a corporation to join.

I am an adult ... I was 44 at the time 48 now. I looked for a corporation in the corporation forums that used language that I could relate to and shared values I could relate to.

Most of the others calling themselves adults were 28 years old which was fine by me... lol .. 28 is a lot different than fresh out of college... a LOT different.. but you can certainly find college people playing.. I'm definitely at the far "old" end of the bell curve in all the corps I've been in.. ..most people in my corps have been 20 years younger ... don't let that throw you.

Different people might choose different age groups etc...

But THIS is Paramount:

A group of Experienced players who have a Desire to Teach and enjoy helping and seeing other players progress is worth Tons!

--

A truth about EVE (or one that used to be true) "Anything worth doing in EVE takes more than one player to do it" With so many players (myself included) able to afford mutiple accounts and the advances in our home technotlogy so many many more people have 2 and three monitors.. that is slightly less true... but it is stilll far more true than not.

--

Onto your specific question of how to make isk as a new player.

First, by joining a group of experienced players, they'll have so much more isk that a tiny rounding error would be 100 times what you might have.

I'm not saying you would mooch off them, but if you did them a tiny bit of help in terms of scouting etc, they would legitimately pay you 5 million or 10 million or much more even if it took you an hour (50 million ?) to help them

That is far far far more than you can earn in hundreds of low level missions. You would have legitimately earned it by what you did for them.. too.

Another low skill point role to take with corps it to be the "salvager" . If you are in a corp where people run missions or rat plex many of those people (probably most) don't salvage their missions but the salvage value also far exceeds the income any player with a few months of training could take on.

Ok.. those are a couple ideas to start you out... I could add more but thats the main thrust ..
Marc Shi
Red Phoenix Rising
#16 - 2013-09-05 21:42:52 UTC
Thanks for the interesting replies all.

I definitely get it that there is much more going on here.

I'm going a head with my plan in trying a little of everything. At this point I have no idea what I'll like yet. I did sub so I'm in this for a while.

The market is better than anything I've ever seen, so trading is definitely on the agenda of things to toy around with.

I''ve sampled enough of EvE so far to know I have a lot to learn. I am also an adult of better than the half century mark, so I'm not so easy to be taken advantage of and I read like there is no tomorrow.

Any way it is nice to meet all of you and I expect I'll be seeing some of you in some fashion or another. ;-)

I think I might like it here.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#17 - 2013-09-05 22:01:29 UTC
I made my start ninja salvaging and, even more profitable, ninja looting. Read up on aggression mechanics.

Then you should think about a faction warfare corp so you can learn PvP while making good iskies.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Selina Dyle
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-09-05 22:07:30 UTC
Marc Shi wrote:

I've been reading a lot about how to get people to 0.0 and low sec and how many people stay in high sec. I see a lot of posts about people getting ganked and I even met someone last night claiming to represent the "New Order" where you must pay for protection...isn't that mafia?


Hello Corpmate. I see that you are talking about me. You dont have to quote the "new order" thing.

Im glad that you made your way to the forums, that puts you ahead of most players in highsec.
Now the next step to your compilance would be sending me the permit money so i can take care of it.
If not, i really hope you choose another profession and hopefully one outside of highsec, because that is the part where the game starts to get interesting ;)

Just a little protip: find a corp or alliance that are likely minded, becasue the possibilities to do things raise exponentionally when you are in a group. And if you like the players from the group it is even better as it is more fun then and games should be fun.

Your favourite Knight Selina
Spurty
#19 - 2013-09-05 22:08:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Spurty
If only it was this simple, however:

High sec = spawning pools. Solo types start here and make friends.

Low sec = bunch of friends can step it up a notch and access better resources.

Null sec = bunches of bunches of bunches of bunches (keep going until you've got about 4~10k+ people) that have ships out in null but all their good stuff worth fighting to keep is in high sec

Worm holes = people that find gates always dropping you in the same system every day are boring so go looking for hidden gates (wormholes) to fart about via. By passing gate camps is initially cool. Then you realize that's the only place you see people undocked in null lolz

It's more complicated but humans are predictably bad at flying dangerously (mostly live in high sec mostly because you can dock up when you need to break for a bio )

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
destiny2
Decaying Rocky Odious Non Evil Stupid Inane Nobody
Looking for Trouble
#20 - 2013-09-05 22:20:04 UTC
Marc Shi wrote:
Hi all,

Please excuse my ignorance in some of these matters as I am a newcomer to EvE.

I've been reading a lot about how to get people to 0.0 and low sec and how many people stay in high sec. I see a lot of posts about people getting ganked and I even met someone last night claiming to represent the "New Order" where you must pay for protection...isn't that mafia?

To be completely honest here. What gives anyone the right to determine what I do with my monthly $$$$ and my enjoyment of the game. I mean if I want to spend all my time mining in highsec, what should it matter to someone in 0.0 or low sec.

If I have a 50mil isk mining ship, I wouldn't take it to low sec without bringing along some company along.

I guess what I am saying as a newb, I don't get the whole argument about why gankers really want to press on miners in highsec. I pay my monthly fee to play like everyone else, why does it matter at all what I choose to do?


pay for protection is a scam in highsec, they will take your isk but not protect you at all.
same with if their is a suicide gank thing happening in jita players will try and sell these fake sort of free transport passes thosee are scams to their getting you to pay the isk but you wont get any thing back.
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