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you want more people going to nullsec? then buff highsec!

First post First post
Author
Ressiv
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2013-09-05 15:45:39 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:
Ressiv wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
it is a missleading idea that buffing nullsec and nerfing highsec will lead to more people going to null, the main reason so many are in highsec is just the risk going to nullsec and the high amount of ISK lost when going there... buffing highsec will reduce the risk because of good income streams for the average player

my suggestion would be to have higher profitable high sec anomalies, 30-50 million an hour minimum

newbs and random players need better faster access to isk, especially solo players who hop in and out of the game... more money for those players will lead to more risk taking (PvP), therefore more targets going to nullsec and more fights there


My suggestion would be to make it impossible to do all but the most trivial of tasks in Hi-sec .. just force them the **** out of there ...


it would help to make the game completely playerdriven and kill all of the PvE, my ideal solution to the topic, however the outcry would be enormous, PvP in my opinion is the only future, and the access to it as well as the risk needs to be easier...


I'm the guy you want in low or 0.0 ... the one hanging out in highsec cuz I'm either not confident in my own skills or lacking funds to lose too much.

I have no real reason to go there .. it's just more dangerous and for my single toon sub that means added risk for no added reward for no good reason at all.

The only thing that would force me out there is not a bigger reward either ... a stable steady income outweighs a fluctuating uncertain one any time ...

I guess ship class restrictions would do it .. just outlaw BS and up in high-sec ... no more barges in high-sec no more freighters ... just the t1 basic small stuff. Restrict markets the same way ... problem solved.

Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
#42 - 2013-09-05 15:47:35 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:


making the game more accessible and easier to just go out there and shoot stuff would help, at the moment you need to spend hours to get a ship that you loose within seconds... thats a big issue for most gamers, and thats the reason PvP is not where it could be in this game


1.75 million ship kills per year from pvp is "pvp is not where it could be"?


by far not, its just a big number because you don't see the background of the average player... the average PvP kill per player is by far not enough, especially for beginners... some of the best players make just a few killes per day, the average is even much lower, there are tons of players who maybe just have 1 PvP kill a week, although they play a lot
Julius Priscus
#43 - 2013-09-05 15:49:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Julius Priscus
Harry Forever wrote:
Julius Priscus wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:

my suggestion would be to have higher profitable high sec anomalies, 30-50 million an hour minimum




this is where I KNEW you are trolling.


blocked.



lol you're acting like a cry baby .. if you cannot handle the truth stop spamming your useless ****.

if you can NEVER get rid of pve.. there will always be pve'ers in the game.

adapt of just gtfo.

blocking me does NOT stop me posting or you seeing my posts. learn to eve ..
Tron 3K
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#44 - 2013-09-05 15:50:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Tron 3K
Harry Forever wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:


making the game more accessible and easier to just go out there and shoot stuff would help, at the moment you need to spend hours to get a ship that you loose within seconds... thats a big issue for most gamers, and thats the reason PvP is not where it could be in this game


1.75 million ship kills per year from pvp is "pvp is not where it could be"?


by far not, its just a big number because you don't see the background of the average player... the average PvP kill per player is by far not enough, especially for beginners... some of the best players make just a few killes per day, the average is even much lower, there are tons of players who maybe just have 1 PvP kill a week, although they play a lot

Why does there have to be PVP? I'm quite content doing my industrial stuff manufacturing goods that net me no profit but enjoy it to help others. I do have a character atm that is training for PVP.

*EDIT* that came out wrong.... Hmm I'll think of a way to reword it to portray what I'm trying to say.. might take a long time as I'm at work and tired as ****
TheBlueMonkey
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2013-09-05 16:00:17 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
If they buff highsec so that it's better than going to nullsec, then what point in going to null?

oh, for the fights, trust me, if someone's scared of losing a ship when they have 500mil in their wallet, they're still going to be scared of losing a ship when they have 500bil in their wallet.

There will always be another reason for those people who can't get their head around the idea of ships being a temporary asset.

A better idea would be easier access to and more NPC 0.0\NPC 0.0 stations, making it so you don't need to sov grind to get there although people would then just moan about hellcamps.


the biggest issue I see is the time it takes to get the ISK for a decent ship, especially for the new players, then they fall into the habbit of just being a highsec grinder because they can not go to null early on, if that early hurdle would be reduced, you have way more players who just think its normal to go to nullsec

the time it takes for a new player to have a decent ship and do some PvP is out of proportion to the risk and how fast it can be lost going to nullsec... I mostly talk about randoms and soloplayer who are not able to join fleets and organize that much because they are just random players, if you make it easier for them to go to nullsec, it would be way more exciting out there, bigger alliances would have more targets, and other solo players could go one on one more often

the incentive going to null should be not so much focused on ISK, the focus should be PvP and exciting SoV gameplay... ISK should for sure be good out there, but not the main focus of the game


Like I said, more NPC 0.0 sounds like the solution to people who want to solo in null but then it does sound like you're trying to argue that solo people should some how be able to PvP against corps\alliances that can form fleets. Which doesn't sound like something that'll be doable.

Oh, and also, I'm in Brave newbies, last night I was in a 0.1 system, in a fleet of 8 players, 4 of which were under a month or two old, one of which was only a few days old.

So your argument kinda falls down a bit there. There's nothing really stopping people going to low\null other than them buying into the idea that it's big and scary.

Sure you might need to talk to some people, find some friend and go out there together but hey... this is an MMO
bloodknight2
Revenu.Quebec
#46 - 2013-09-05 16:05:15 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:


by far not, its just a big number because you don't see the background of the average player... the average PvP kill per player is by far not enough, especially for beginners... some of the best players make just a few killes per day, the average is even much lower, there are tons of players who maybe just have 1 PvP kill a week, although they play a lot


You see, a lot of players don't care about easy kill like cyno for buffing their kill count and thinking how elite they are.
Tron 3K
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#47 - 2013-09-05 16:08:14 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:


making the game more accessible and easier to just go out there and shoot stuff would help, at the moment you need to spend hours to get a ship that you loose within seconds... thats a big issue for most gamers, and thats the reason PvP is not where it could be in this game


1.75 million ship kills per year from pvp is "pvp is not where it could be"?


by far not, its just a big number because you don't see the background of the average player... the average PvP kill per player is by far not enough, especially for beginners... some of the best players make just a few killes per day, the average is even much lower, there are tons of players who maybe just have 1 PvP kill a week, although they play a lot

Okay why do people have to do PVP? Yes granted this is what the game was made for but seriously trying to make people do something is not going to fly. Hence why this is a sandbox game and we can do whatever we want.

If I want to do manufacturing in hi-sec I should be able to do that. If I want to take my PVP character out and kill someone I can do that as well. The only thing I'd suggest to get more "fights" is take away alot of the empty null and low sec systems and that'll bring people closer and you'll see more explosions.. Unfortunately then you got to figure out a way that when you take away some of these systems that you can even out the minerals that have left the field in other ways or something.
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
#48 - 2013-09-05 16:48:17 UTC
bloodknight2 wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:


by far not, its just a big number because you don't see the background of the average player... the average PvP kill per player is by far not enough, especially for beginners... some of the best players make just a few killes per day, the average is even much lower, there are tons of players who maybe just have 1 PvP kill a week, although they play a lot


You see, a lot of players don't care about easy kill like cyno for buffing their kill count and thinking how elite they are.


you still did not get it...
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2013-09-05 17:00:01 UTC
Julius Priscus wrote:
blocking me does NOT stop me posting or you seeing my posts. learn to eve ..

Uhm ... yes, it does.

It's visible that you posted something,
but the content of your post isn't.

He has to deliberately click your post to open it up.

Learn to forum, i guess ...


Oh, unless you mistake it for the blocking function in-game,
but that would not make any sense,
because why would he block you in game,
when it's your post that bothers him.
bloodknight2
Revenu.Quebec
#50 - 2013-09-05 17:06:21 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:
bloodknight2 wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:


by far not, its just a big number because you don't see the background of the average player... the average PvP kill per player is by far not enough, especially for beginners... some of the best players make just a few killes per day, the average is even much lower, there are tons of players who maybe just have 1 PvP kill a week, although they play a lot


You see, a lot of players don't care about easy kill like cyno for buffing their kill count and thinking how elite they are.


you still did not get it...


I understand what you meant and you will understand what i mean when you will stop shooting cyno or indi. When you will start shooting cruiser, bc or BS, your kill ratio will drop.
Tron 3K
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#51 - 2013-09-05 17:07:50 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Julius Priscus wrote:
blocking me does NOT stop me posting or you seeing my posts. learn to eve ..

Uhm ... yes, it does.

It's visible that you posted something,
but the content of your post isn't.

He has to deliberately click your post to open it up.

Learn to forum, i guess ...


Oh, unless you mistake it for the blocking function in-game,
but that would not make any sense,
because why would he block you in game,
when it's your post that bothers him.


He doesn't actually block you.. Or he does it for a second and then unblocks you cause he needs the attention.. He's told me he's blocked me before because I called him an idiot but still talks to me in the forums.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#52 - 2013-09-05 17:11:09 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:
my suggestion would be to have higher profitable high sec anomalies, 30-50 million an hour minimum

Well it would be better than missions. At least it would lead to player interaction and PvP as players will invade anomalies. It makes it easier for gankers too.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#53 - 2013-09-05 17:32:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Sergeant Acht Scultz
Harry Forever wrote:
it is a missleading idea that buffing nullsec and nerfing highsec will lead to more people going to null, the main reason so many are in highsec is just the risk going to nullsec and the high amount of ISK lost when going there... buffing highsec will reduce the risk because of good income streams for the average player

my suggestion would be to have higher profitable high sec anomalies, 30-50 million an hour minimum

newbs and random players need better faster access to isk, especially solo players who hop in and out of the game... more money for those players will lead to more risk taking (PvP), therefore more targets going to nullsec and more fights there



The only buff High sec needs to make players move on to areas of the game where player content has a bit more meanings than NPC one, is by making so as lower as your SS goes you can't just reverse it by any means and limit your area access, thus limiting your lower level zones access (high sec) for a short period and any action taken/given/made have an SS effect but in the end making so you have no other choice but to move to low/null including station trading idiots.

Null sec "blob" is a poor excuse, null sec is full of small gang solo pvp everyday everywhere, telling differently is looking to everyone playing in those areas like an idiot.

Noobs/high sec income is another poor excuse to justify some pawn inability to play with other people or make a simple effort, actually is the poorest excuse for risk averse pubbies.

Buff high sec and make it so once you start your career, in the earlier days, you have to choose "something" and that "something" affects your SS/faction standings FOREVER, thus buffing low sec/null sec/WH

Until then it's not really a sandbox but something looking like a sandbox full of kitty poo.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne

Aedh Phelan
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2013-09-05 17:35:48 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:
it is a missleading idea that buffing nullsec and nerfing highsec will lead to more people going to null, the main reason so many are in highsec is just the risk going to nullsec and the high amount of ISK lost when going there... buffing highsec will reduce the risk because of good income streams for the average player

my suggestion would be to have higher profitable high sec anomalies, 30-50 million an hour minimum

newbs and random players need better faster access to isk, especially solo players who hop in and out of the game... more money for those players will lead to more risk taking (PvP), therefore more targets going to nullsec and more fights there



I'm afraid your premise is flawed.

People were leaving another game, Ultima Online, because of the non-consensual PvP. Introduce Reniassance. Everyone moves to Trammel where it is mostly safe (hisec). Everyone plays in nice safe Trammel and doesn't go to Fellucca anymore except to play "gate" games (losec) on the moongates. Away from the gates in Fellucca the lands are mostly deserted.

Meanwhile everyone merrily accumulates vast wealth in Trammel killing monsters and looting them and making things and roleplaying amazing things. Suddently, the most basic item is so expensive that only the richest players can afford it. So, no new players. Economy is crap, people are literally wallpapering their homes with gold, getting bored and leaving. Now even Trammel gets less and less crowded.

That and WoW came out.

Making rich hisec people richer won't lure them into low or null if they are afraid or not interested. IMHO neither will making the same activities done in high sec yield even more wealth in null. It feels like it needs to be something totally different that can't be found or done at all in hisec (and not related to PvP). It needs to be something a hisec only player would want on their bucket list bad enough to take on the rest of what comes with crossing the gap to null.

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#55 - 2013-09-05 17:48:25 UTC
Aedh Phelan wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
it is a missleading idea that buffing nullsec and nerfing highsec will lead to more people going to null, the main reason so many are in highsec is just the risk going to nullsec and the high amount of ISK lost when going there... buffing highsec will reduce the risk because of good income streams for the average player

my suggestion would be to have higher profitable high sec anomalies, 30-50 million an hour minimum

newbs and random players need better faster access to isk, especially solo players who hop in and out of the game... more money for those players will lead to more risk taking (PvP), therefore more targets going to nullsec and more fights there



I'm afraid your premise is flawed.

People were leaving another game, Ultima Online, because of the non-consensual PvP. Introduce Reniassance. Everyone moves to Trammel where it is mostly safe (hisec). Everyone plays in nice safe Trammel and doesn't go to Fellucca anymore except to play "gate" games (losec) on the moongates. Away from the gates in Fellucca the lands are mostly deserted.

Meanwhile everyone merrily accumulates vast wealth in Trammel killing monsters and looting them and making things and roleplaying amazing things. Suddently, the most basic item is so expensive that only the richest players can afford it. So, no new players. Economy is crap, people are literally wallpapering their homes with gold, getting bored and leaving. Now even Trammel gets less and less crowded.

That and WoW came out.

Making rich hisec people richer won't lure them into low or null if they are afraid or not interested. IMHO neither will making the same activities done in high sec yield even more wealth in null. It feels like it needs to be something totally different that can't be found or done at all in hisec (and not related to PvP). It needs to be something a hisec only player would want on their bucket list bad enough to take on the rest of what comes with crossing the gap to null.



+1

I love a good history lesson Big smile
bloodknight2
Revenu.Quebec
#56 - 2013-09-05 17:57:25 UTC
In my opinion, the only way to get more noobs in LS and null is quite simple : explain to them they do not need T2 ships + T2 mods to pvp. The richer you are, the more factions you put on your ships, the bigger your losses. Money doesn't solve anything.
Mac Munoz
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2013-09-05 18:09:44 UTC
Harry I think the biggest thing you are missing here is that this game very closely mimics the actions of humans in real life.

People find the game so engaging and immersive they begin to get emotional connections with their stuff. These types of people will almost never risk their treasures. Like it or not these types of people are the majority, witnessed by the population difference between Hisec and any other areas of the game.

At the end of the day EVE needs hisec like hisec needs the rest of EVE. They are very complimentary. Trying to enforce limits on a limitless game is just silly. Stop wasting the energy and instead use that energy to make your game play better. You can do that by engaging with other like minded individuals and taking them under your wing of cyno popping.

It almost seems to me that you are having trouble financing your "enjoyment". That's EVE. You spend a lot of time for those few precious moments of enjoyment. If EVE wasn't that way it wouldn't be fun any longer, it would be just like every other game. Having the feeling of true fear of loosing something you worked so hard for is what makes your heart pound and adrenaline pump, while you PVP. I have never had these feelings in any other games because there is zero risk. Doing what you propose introduces no risk therefore no consequences. The game would be a shell of what it once was.
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
#58 - 2013-09-05 18:15:39 UTC
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
If they buff highsec so that it's better than going to nullsec, then what point in going to null?

oh, for the fights, trust me, if someone's scared of losing a ship when they have 500mil in their wallet, they're still going to be scared of losing a ship when they have 500bil in their wallet.

There will always be another reason for those people who can't get their head around the idea of ships being a temporary asset.

A better idea would be easier access to and more NPC 0.0\NPC 0.0 stations, making it so you don't need to sov grind to get there although people would then just moan about hellcamps.


the biggest issue I see is the time it takes to get the ISK for a decent ship, especially for the new players, then they fall into the habbit of just being a highsec grinder because they can not go to null early on, if that early hurdle would be reduced, you have way more players who just think its normal to go to nullsec

the time it takes for a new player to have a decent ship and do some PvP is out of proportion to the risk and how fast it can be lost going to nullsec... I mostly talk about randoms and soloplayer who are not able to join fleets and organize that much because they are just random players, if you make it easier for them to go to nullsec, it would be way more exciting out there, bigger alliances would have more targets, and other solo players could go one on one more often

the incentive going to null should be not so much focused on ISK, the focus should be PvP and exciting SoV gameplay... ISK should for sure be good out there, but not the main focus of the game


Like I said, more NPC 0.0 sounds like the solution to people who want to solo in null but then it does sound like you're trying to argue that solo people should some how be able to PvP against corps\alliances that can form fleets. Which doesn't sound like something that'll be doable.

Oh, and also, I'm in Brave newbies, last night I was in a 0.1 system, in a fleet of 8 players, 4 of which were under a month or two old, one of which was only a few days old.

So your argument kinda falls down a bit there. There's nothing really stopping people going to low\null other than them buying into the idea that it's big and scary.

Sure you might need to talk to some people, find some friend and go out there together but hey... this is an MMO


sure its an MMO but most people like to go solo, they do it in an MMO to figh against other players because of PvP not because they want to interact with them, sure there are many who want to fleetup and do that stuff as well, but I think there are many more gamers who just want to do stuff alone and are not dependant to others, however they want to fight other people and not just do PvE...

I think that part is just not supported that good in the game and needs improvement, it would attract a lot of random players, more targets to PvP for us all... it would not be a problem if they are not able to fight the alliances, but they have their own mini fights out there and would spread small scale PvP much more...
Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
#59 - 2013-09-05 18:35:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Harry Forever
Mac Munoz wrote:
Harry I think the biggest thing you are missing here is that this game very closely mimics the actions of humans in real life.

People find the game so engaging and immersive they begin to get emotional connections with their stuff. These types of people will almost never risk their treasures. Like it or not these types of people are the majority, witnessed by the population difference between Hisec and any other areas of the game.

At the end of the day EVE needs hisec like hisec needs the rest of EVE. They are very complimentary. Trying to enforce limits on a limitless game is just silly. Stop wasting the energy and instead use that energy to make your game play better. You can do that by engaging with other like minded individuals and taking them under your wing of cyno popping.

It almost seems to me that you are having trouble financing your "enjoyment". That's EVE. You spend a lot of time for those few precious moments of enjoyment. If EVE wasn't that way it wouldn't be fun any longer, it would be just like every other game. Having the feeling of true fear of loosing something you worked so hard for is what makes your heart pound and adrenaline pump, while you PVP. I have never had these feelings in any other games because there is zero risk. Doing what you propose introduces no risk therefore no consequences. The game would be a shell of what it once was.


PvP is not so enjoyable, its frustrating for most, you never have a satisfied feeling, because you need to spend way too much time to get it, when you have your kill it nearly does not matter because going there is just a big hurdle because of many things

ship price, risk, not enough PvP out there, people would be satisfied if they can login do some stuff and get 10 kills per hour minimum on average, I don't ask for 100 like in an FPS, but the average 1 kill per player is just not enough... its not just for me that way, I'm just one who speaks up about it

the game holds you back from playing it because of some mechanics that need to be altered, the game just gives you a clue about how it could be, but it never gives you enough of it, its for all the same
Elizabeth Aideron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2013-09-05 18:49:31 UTC
Harry Forever wrote:
Mac Munoz wrote:
Harry I think the biggest thing you are missing here is that this game very closely mimics the actions of humans in real life.

People find the game so engaging and immersive they begin to get emotional connections with their stuff. These types of people will almost never risk their treasures. Like it or not these types of people are the majority, witnessed by the population difference between Hisec and any other areas of the game.

At the end of the day EVE needs hisec like hisec needs the rest of EVE. They are very complimentary. Trying to enforce limits on a limitless game is just silly. Stop wasting the energy and instead use that energy to make your game play better. You can do that by engaging with other like minded individuals and taking them under your wing of cyno popping.

It almost seems to me that you are having trouble financing your "enjoyment". That's EVE. You spend a lot of time for those few precious moments of enjoyment. If EVE wasn't that way it wouldn't be fun any longer, it would be just like every other game. Having the feeling of true fear of loosing something you worked so hard for is what makes your heart pound and adrenaline pump, while you PVP. I have never had these feelings in any other games because there is zero risk. Doing what you propose introduces no risk therefore no consequences. The game would be a shell of what it once was.


PvP is not so enjoyable, its frustrating for most, you never have a satisfied feeling, because you need to spend way too much time to get it, when you have your kill it nearly does not matter because going there is just a big hurdle because of many things

ship price, risk, not enough PvP out there, people would be satisfied if they can login do some stuff and get 10 kills per hour minimum on average, I don't ask for 100 like in an FPS, but the average 1 kill per player is just not enough... its not just for me that way, I'm just one who speaks up about it

the game holds you back from playing it because of some mechanics that need to be altered, the game just gives you a clue about how it could be, but it never gives you enough of it, its for all the same


No, you're just bad at playing.