Intergalactic Summit

Before I begin, let me apologize for a post that will end up being at least slightly stream-of-consciousness. I'm only now recovering from some extended sleeplessness, so this may not be as cogent as I'd like. Bear with me.

Recently, I was wondering what pressure causes the State to maintain the war in Black Rise and Placid, despite the seeming interminability of it. With the Federation, it's easy; Roden profits so long as the war continues. With the State...? And I thought, "Well, it gives us purpose; it's a crucible in which the spirit is fired." This gave me pause, though, as war for war's sake isn't in keeping with the liberal ideals of open borders, free trade, and cultural detente. It's clear, though, that adversity is one of the means by which we are pushed to excel. Without adversity, without trial, we are unlikely to reach our fullest potential; it's easy to become sedentary, to settle, to accept what winds come when those winds are gentle.

How, then, does the liberal ideal fire us to excel? Market competition is a valuable and powerful thing, but I wonder if it puts stress on our ideals. Consider, for instance, the years of economic malaise that resulted when some -- many? -- executives didn't provide sufficiently for the welfare of their corporate citizens, when desire for personal profit eroded the paternal and communal ideals that are central to the ideals of the State. And yet desire for personal profit is the driving force behind market competition. Could it be, then, that market competition is an insufficient drive for the State, and that it needs the colder wind of war to flourish?

That's about where my lack of sleep catches up with me. I'm still mulling this over. I suspect that I will have to accept that few value systems reconcile themselves completely, and that Caldari liberalism is ultimately subject to that same issue. It's not ideal, but it is.

Mr. Stane, I would consider myself a member of the liberal bloc, and bound to Ishukone. Unless I'm dehumanizing myself, or diminishing the value of my own opinion, I'm not sure exactly how you drew that from my post. Instead, I'm trying to explore a conflict with my own ideals.

That said, the issue is this: I believe the constant border skirmishes are a terrible waste of resources, of lives, and a thing that prevents our nations from considering rapprochement. At the same time, a crucible is needed to forge us in our ideals, competition and indeed privation is needed to shape us and give our lives purpose.

Edit; a note. I've slightly altered the wording of the first post. As said, I'm writing while terribly sleep-deprived, and I may not be getting my point across properly.

Oh! Yes. What Oniseki-Charantes-haani said.

As said, sleep deprived, and I completely missed that point. I should clarify. I speak of Caldari liberalism, and not Gallente liberalism. The differences between these are many and manifest.

Thank you, Chujo. I suspect I owe you a brandy.

Agreed, especially in the context of this discussion.

Many wonder why this war between the Federation and the State hasn't ended and the answer is right there in the quotes. Business.

When a war serves no honest purpose anymore-no goals or objectives, no dictators to oust, no land to rightfully reconquer-it boils down to this; profit and growth. War serves both these purposes as strange and contradictory as it may seem. Through war you will reignite the desires of a populace to work harder. Efficiency and output increases, and profit does too as a result. Heth realized this. Why it continues now after the Caldari have grown to a comfortable position I can only guess that it's because of pride and prejudice. Neither wants to be the first to blow out the candle to end the war as it would give them a position of weakness, just like during the Gallente-Caldari War.

-Eran

You misunderstood me. I didn't mean to say that the Caldari and Gallente conflict continues because of greed, but rather because of pride and prejudice. The current conflict is a result of greed, and the vilification of the other's side, but the only reason, I believe, that it continues is because of pride and prejudice. It's too hard for one side to give an olive branch after all that's happened. Heth is disposed of but the factions still fight.

Obviously this has nothing to do with the Amarr and Minmatar conflict, though.

On a side-note, you mention debt due to a prolonged war. Who does the Gallente owe debt to when their only allies are the ones who seek aid? I'm not sure who would help the Gallente if they really had any need for a loan...

Also, you'd be turning a blind eye, or two, if you believed this war stopped Caldari corporations, Gallente political parties, Matari tribes, and Amarrian heirs from fighting amongst themselves. This is something that will continue for an indeterminable time, though I do not think such is always a bad thing...

In regards to your next point; "we" teach our children to hate someone because "we" hate them, and are too weak to move on. I said it recently, but 'we may be like our fathers, but we are not them.' And any child will grow to realize this if they use half their brain.

Lastly, war is prescribed by God in the Amarr faith in dire times. I'm not sure how you can follow their faith, yet call war a "sham"...it is almost the backbone of Amarrian principles to war against unbelievers, whether it be physically or verbally.

-Eran

So called liberal ideals are lacking sense.
The war is fought for assets of the State.

Open borders? With something like Federation borders are better to be shut, to prevent gallentean filth from leaking.

Free trade? The word free is a dangerous word. It will lead to scam and fraud. The trade must be regulated. And, of course, trade with enemies must be prohibited, since honest trade (without scam and fraud) benefits both parties. And making benefit for enemies is a treason.

Cultural detente? I never heard that Caldari ever oppressed other cultures. We are not like these gallentean swines, who try to infect peoples with their rotten ideals of freedom, liberty, equality, hedonism and other gallentean filth. We bring to peoples only proper and efficient management instead of obsolete defunct gallentean democracy. We don't sell Caldari culture to those, who don't want it.

I would not disagree with such an assertion, myself. However a free company is a free company in the State, and if some Executives think following not just aspects but the full precepts of the Caillean Schools of Economics is conducive and beneficial to their business pursuits then that is certainly their own affair.

Personally, I've always found it inimical with my own views on the conduct of business and find its explicit cultural overtones in classical Caillean liberalism and individual liberty run counter to my own values.

Freedom of Religion in the Fed means you can skip taxes and other forms of service. It means you can challenge authorities and the community, citing religious differences. It means special protective laws are passed in your favor to be a special snowflake.

In the State, we don't call it 'freedom of religion', because to do so graces the concept with unnecessary importance. That's precisely the point in the State. Your religion is not important.

Freedom of Press in the Fed means the media can publish documents of divisive and seditious nature under the almighty golden rule of "Free Press". It means the media can act in a manner and tone that causes the most uproar and outrage for no reason other than drawing in more viewers. It means bad news ends up better than good news. It means the frivolous ends up better than the important.

In the State, there is no Freedom of Press for a damned good reason. We don't need our holovisions clogged with the filth and detritus of dissent. It's bad enough this IGS exists. We don't need it on every other channel too.

I suppose I will start with the idea that we seems to be saying the same thing with different language in regards to why wars continue. I think the other questions deserve answers, though.

Government debt is rarely owed outside the system itself. Obviously, it isn't easy to find a bank that can finance an entire government's debt. However, when a government needs to buy ships and equipment for war, it either has to pay for all the materials and manufacturing or buy the goods directly. Either requires a vast amount of money. To generate cash on the fly, a government like the Gallente prints money, ISK being the primary fiat currency. With nothing to back the money, it is worth as much as we think it is worth in terms of goods and services. The government uses this money to buy its own bonds. Doing this pumps money into its coffers and devalues the currency (there is more in circulation).

This almost doomed the Empire some time ago. It is what happens when people enjoy warfare buy dislike higher taxes. We don't always wonder why things tend to cost more than before. We are simply, as a society, generating money faster than we are producing things to buy it with. Thus the government is mostly in debt to the tune of the bonds it has bought.

As far as being the products of our upbringing, it is true we can break from our old traditions and learn new ways. I would not be so quick to dismiss those who do not. If you grow up in one place, surrounded by people who tell you that a certain people are a certain way, I find it hard to blame them for believing it. If it was so easy to give up the prejudices you mentioned, I doubt I would be doing what I do for the faith. Outreach is quite a bit more difficult than you would think simply because teaching someone something that runs counter to their expectations is generally seen as an injury of pride.

I know how I felt when I first entered Matari space and people described my family, my father, and myself as slavedriving monsters. This, even though our own servants stayed after the emancipation because their lives as servants to our house were easier than they could expect elsewhere. It is insulting and hurts your feelings. You simply have to learn that they are not talking about you or your family. They are talking about parts of your Empire that fail in their God-given duties. They are talking about the suffering inflicted on their own fathers that they are described to. They feel that being told that not all Holders are cut from the same cloth somehow disenfranchises their own traditions and families.

Really, it's understandable. Some Amarr did horrible things to their servants and did nothing to give them better lives. You simply have to accept that not all people of your culture are perfect.

That seems to cut to the bone for some of us, though. Which, I think, speaks to your point.

As far as God ordering war, it is true that the Lord orders warfare to spread the faith to hostile factions who refuse and subvert the Word. As far as I have seen, though, most Matari are not actively attacking our churches or our faith. They seem to dislike slavery (surprise, surprise!) because so many of their former Holders used them as expendable labor without giving them any benefits of the Empire. I will be the first to keep the blame from them on that front. I minister primarily to Matari in Minmatar space who have no other priests to talk to (or tribesmen they can trust with their emotional issues). They seem to run the gamut from indifferent to receptive about the Word. In this case, I would say war is not called for in a Scriptural sense. To bring people into the grace of God by peace is always preferable to war.

Really, all we should be doing is protecting the faith and the faithful. Which, I suppose, is what soldiers from every empire are doing, in their own way. Everyone seems to defend as aggressively as they can for just the reasons you and I have described.

Thank you pilot Oniseki for explaining what liberalism within the State means. Your explanation was very informative.

Forgive me if I don't use racial terms to describe the motivations or proclivities of political entity's. There are no doubt many Caldari in the Federation that may disagree with you regarding "Caldari liberalism", and conversly...

As to President Rodens desires regarding the conflict, "might" or might not, rarely makes things "obvious". I would be interested in demonstrated evidence of his "desire" for war other than defending his own as is his obligation as the primary executive of the Federation.