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Eve banking idea

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Rthor
Smugglers Inc.
#1 - 2013-09-04 16:48:46 UTC
What if a corporation was allowed to borrow isk in eve?

Currently we have, I think, people borrowing isk based on the reputation of their toon.

What if instead a corporation could borrow isk, issue shares as collateral and set a monthly dividend payable on existing shares.

A corporation could attract capital by offering an interest rate that would be up to a corporation. The number of shares would be public information.

The idea is that the process would be automatic via dividends on shares, money would be subtracted from corporate wallet and the only way to get rid of the obligation would be by buying back issued shares. Money from corporate tax would be deposited into the same corporate wallet and no other. In other words you would not be able to collect corporate tax without paying dividends on existing shares.

This way there would be a way to set interest rates and invest idle isk in game, and give meaning to corporation concept.
Rykker Bow
Center for Advanced Studies
#2 - 2013-09-04 17:13:03 UTC
Banking and Eve do not mix well.

The Mjolnir Bloc - Lowsec PvP for the sophisticated - The Mjolnir Bloc Killboards
Lord LazyGhost
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2013-09-04 17:19:12 UTC
And also an Awsome way to scam. Borrow billions transfer shares. Transfer money. Leave cor and remake borrow billions ri ice and repeat. Would be to open to abuse. The way loans work atm is better Colaton for money don't pay back u loose Colaton simple. And ur char gets bad rep and pubs never gets loan again for simplest lolz
Rthor
Smugglers Inc.
#4 - 2013-09-04 17:37:42 UTC
Lord LazyGhost wrote:
And also an Awsome way to scam. Borrow billions transfer shares. Transfer money. Leave cor and remake borrow billions ri ice and repeat. Would be to open to abuse. The way loans work atm is better Colaton for money don't pay back u loose Colaton simple. And ur char gets bad rep and pubs never gets loan again for simplest lolz


So a corporation goes bust just as in real life. There are no guarantees. However, you could judge whether the corporation is worthy of your investment. I think that if you know that a corporation has an outpost or POS, for example, and defaulting on your loan would mean loss of these then that would be a way for you to hedge against risk of a scam. Also if corporation would not be able to get tax from its members unless it had sufficient cash flow to cover debt payments that would be good too. This way the corporation would either have to increase corporate tax rate, and face pressure from its members, or live without reliance on corporate tax.

The advantage would be that you could fund corporations for specific purposes, which is the idea behind a corporation. You could also for example bet on a war.

As it is corporation is more like a social club. You can have such corporations too. But having the ability to set dividends on shares that are tied to the corporate wallet could be an option that is not that difficult to implement. You could "pay" your corporate "employees" this way too.
Bunyip
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-09-04 21:08:52 UTC
In some respects, I agree with your post. The inherent difference is that corporation mechanics are in dire need of a nearly complete overhaul.

I would like there to be a 'stock market' in Eve, with regulations to control scams and stock splits. Scams would still occur (such is the nature of Eve Online), but having a system that automatically induced currency into the corporation wallet when a stock is sold and reduced when it is bought back would be nice.

Doing this would create a new form of currency (the stock certificate) and a new market with which to trade it in. Already there is a futures market in Eve, simulated by the expectation that an item will inflate or deflate when a patch is released rather than by other factors.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#6 - 2013-09-05 04:42:50 UTC
In real life you can't bio mass into someone else with a clean slate.

You have a time period between personal bankruptcies.

Over site is far easier in real life due to jail time.

I can't imagine any aspect of this changing inside any game.

That is why it doesn't mix well and most likely never will.
Helion Exus
Saitek Enterprises
#7 - 2013-09-06 10:55:07 UTC
The issue with Corps is, unless you have set up some POS's or own a Station, there is very little tying you to the Corp. You can go off and create a new Corp, therefore it falls back on personal reputation.
X ATM092
The Hatchery
RAZOR Alliance
#8 - 2013-09-06 11:06:22 UTC
Corporations have no real value in eve, the only purpose they serve is to allow the CEO to rob the members through tax and to help people too stupid to join a chat channel. A group of players with a common identity can, and often do, base out of a single chat channel while being in dozens of different corps that suit their various needs. Actually using an in game corp to represent your group is little more than roleplay and loans based off of taxing the corp income will only impact those too stupid to realise that the corp is a meaningless construct.
Rthor
Smugglers Inc.
#9 - 2013-09-06 11:15:28 UTC
X ATM092 wrote:
Corporations have no real value in eve, the only purpose they serve is to allow the CEO to rob the members through tax and to help people too stupid to join a chat channel. A group of players with a common identity can, and often do, base out of a single chat channel while being in dozens of different corps that suit their various needs. Actually using an in game corp to represent your group is little more than roleplay and loans based off of taxing the corp income will only impact those too stupid to realise that the corp is a meaningless construct.


What if a corporation set up a network of POSs and controls a region in null and is offering you 1 percent on your isk per month, and this interest has to come out of that corporation's corporate wallet, the same wallet tied to the POSes. The corporation would then adjust the interest rate as it sees fit. If you do not like the risk you would require a higher interest rate to invest and you would invest less of your money. If the corporation needed money for a war it could get funding. That corporation could unanchor and remake corporation to get your money but that would be your call as an investor if you thought that they would disband.

Would not that be an improvement over what we have now?
Block Ukx
Pator Tech School
#10 - 2013-09-06 11:28:23 UTC
Rthor wrote:
What if a corporation was allowed to borrow isk in eve?


Presently a corporation can borrow ISK. There is nothing preventing a corporation from borrowing ISK.


Rthor wrote:
Currently we have, I think, people borrowing isk based on the reputation of their toon.


That’s one way people borrow ISK, but it is not the only way. Others use collateral to borrow ISK.


Rthor wrote:
What if instead a corporation could borrow isk, issue shares as collateral and set a monthly dividend payable on existing shares.


Again, this mechanism is already in place and people are still using it.


Rthor wrote:
A corporation could attract capital by offering an interest rate that would be up to a corporation. The number of shares would be public information.


One more time, this already exists; the number of shares is public knowledge.


Rthor wrote:
The idea is that the process would be automatic via dividends on shares, money would be subtracted from corporate wallet and the only way to get rid of the obligation would be by buying back issued shares. Money from corporate tax would be deposited into the same corporate wallet and no other.


Again, this is already in place. Perhaps you should create a corporation.
Block Ukx
Pator Tech School
#11 - 2013-09-06 11:28:42 UTC
Rthor wrote:
In other words you would not be able to collect corporate tax without paying dividends on existing shares.


This game mechanic is already in place. If you don’t pay people leave and you can’t collect taxes.


Rthor wrote:
This way there would be a way to set interest rates and invest idle isk in game, and give meaning to corporation concept.


Since all you are proposing already exists, then corporations must have meaning. New to the game?
Block Ukx
Pator Tech School
#12 - 2013-09-06 11:38:22 UTC
Rthor wrote:
What if a corporation set up a network of POSs and controls a region in null and is offering you 1 percent on your isk per month, and this interest has to come out of that corporation's corporate wallet, the same wallet tied to the POSes. The corporation would then adjust the interest rate as it sees fit. If you do not like the risk you would require a higher interest rate to invest and you would invest less of your money. If the corporation needed money for a war it could get funding. That corporation could unanchor and remake corporation to get your money but that would be your call as an investor if you thought that they would disband.

Would not that be an improvement over what we have now?



This is nothing new. POS IPOs were popular a long time ago. Fury Holdings come to mind, but there has been plenty of other IPOs based on POS. There was another big one about seven years ago set in null space with big plans and all. I can't remember the name. Maybe some of the old players might recall the name.

http://www.eve-search.com/thread/526576-0


Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#13 - 2013-09-06 11:40:54 UTC
Rthor wrote:
What if a corporation set up a network of POSs and controls a region in null and is offering you 1 percent on your isk per month

That would be a terrible deal. Why would anyone take it?

Rthor wrote:
Would not that be an improvement over what we have now?

On the surface it looks like something that can be done now, with current mechanics. So no.

Is there something I am missing?
Block Ukx
Pator Tech School
#14 - 2013-09-06 11:53:26 UTC



I found it!

First IPO ISSO launched in 2005 "https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Interstellar_Starbase_Syndicate_(Player_alliance)" , where believe it or not they deployed an outpost.




Here is something to read
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=1110505







Rthor
Smugglers Inc.
#15 - 2013-09-06 12:31:52 UTC
Block Ukx wrote:
Rthor wrote:
In other words you would not be able to collect corporate tax without paying dividends on existing shares.


This game mechanic is already in place. If you don’t pay people leave and you can’t collect taxes.


Rthor wrote:
This way there would be a way to set interest rates and invest idle isk in game, and give meaning to corporation concept.


Since all you are proposing already exists, then corporations must have meaning. New to the game?



New to the world?

I am trying to figure out if there is an easy way, using something close to game mechanics, to create an obligation to pay interest that an entity cannot shirk. Right now you may or may not pay interest. It is up to you, and that is not good enough. If I had a hard claim on your corporate cash flow I might be interested. Basically if you dont pay me I can kill your corp and infrastructure kind of thing. This will probably blow your mind but I am trying to see if shares in eve could actually be set up to be sort of bonds.

I am just brainstorming so that I can propose this to devs.

Are you trying to get a kill on forums or something.
Dasola
New Edens Freeports
#16 - 2013-09-06 12:35:46 UTC
But people/corp can borrow money allready. If they can find some fool that lends them some... Big smile

No, seriously eve has no official enforcement method for banking or loans. And that opens things up for all sort of scams and backstabbing..

We are Minmatar, Our ship are made of scraps, but look what our scraps can do...
Rthor
Smugglers Inc.
#17 - 2013-09-06 12:46:02 UTC
Bad Bobby wrote:
Rthor wrote:
What if a corporation set up a network of POSs and controls a region in null and is offering you 1 percent on your isk per month

That would be a terrible deal. Why would anyone take it?

Rthor wrote:
Would not that be an improvement over what we have now?

On the surface it looks like something that can be done now, with current mechanics. So no.

Is there something I am missing?


It is certainly possible.

It would be up to you if you took it. And me. And everybody else. That is what would make a market for isk and that would be interesting.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#18 - 2013-09-06 12:52:58 UTC
X ATM092 wrote:
Corporations have no real value in eve, the only purpose they serve is to allow the CEO to rob the members through tax and to help people too stupid to join a chat channel. A group of players with a common identity can, and often do, base out of a single chat channel while being in dozens of different corps that suit their various needs. Actually using an in game corp to represent your group is little more than roleplay and loans based off of taxing the corp income will only impact those too stupid to realise that the corp is a meaningless construct.

I'd agree that many (possibly most) corporations add little value beyond what could be obtained from a chat channel, but that doesn't apply to all corps.

Not utilising the potential benefits of a corp is not quite the same as there being no benefits.

Corp hangars, wallets, orders, contracts, bulletins, bookmarks, standings, fleet restrictions, APIs and probably a whole host of other features I have forgotten about can all be extremely useful to the right type of corp.

One important facility that cannot be fully utilised outside of a corp is the POS. If you need a POS for something, you generally need a corp.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#19 - 2013-09-06 12:53:55 UTC
Rthor wrote:
What if a corporation was allowed to borrow isk in eve?

Currently we have, I think, people borrowing isk based on the reputation of their toon.

What if instead a corporation could borrow isk, issue shares as collateral and set a monthly dividend payable on existing shares.

A corporation could attract capital by offering an interest rate that would be up to a corporation. The number of shares would be public information.

The idea is that the process would be automatic via dividends on shares, money would be subtracted from corporate wallet and the only way to get rid of the obligation would be by buying back issued shares. Money from corporate tax would be deposited into the same corporate wallet and no other. In other words you would not be able to collect corporate tax without paying dividends on existing shares.

This way there would be a way to set interest rates and invest idle isk in game, and give meaning to corporation concept.


Alts.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Rthor
Smugglers Inc.
#20 - 2013-09-06 13:03:23 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Rthor wrote:
What if a corporation was allowed to borrow isk in eve?

Currently we have, I think, people borrowing isk based on the reputation of their toon.

What if instead a corporation could borrow isk, issue shares as collateral and set a monthly dividend payable on existing shares.

A corporation could attract capital by offering an interest rate that would be up to a corporation. The number of shares would be public information.

The idea is that the process would be automatic via dividends on shares, money would be subtracted from corporate wallet and the only way to get rid of the obligation would be by buying back issued shares. Money from corporate tax would be deposited into the same corporate wallet and no other. In other words you would not be able to collect corporate tax without paying dividends on existing shares.

This way there would be a way to set interest rates and invest idle isk in game, and give meaning to corporation concept.


Alts.


I am an un-bitter vet. I do not really appreciate such responses from CSM.
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