Player Features and Ideas Discussion

*You can skip this part* Here's a quick explanation for why this is important to me. I like hauling. No idea why, but I also enjoy being as self-sufficient as possible. I mainly fly a BR, but if I ever want to carry any load through null larger than 10km3 "safely," then I would need a jump freighter, which is no longer much of a solo task. I see the increased size of the DST as a potential middle-ground for someone like me.

Now for the meat and potatoes.

First things first. This isn't meant to be a whine thread, but a constructive criticism/brainstorm thread. So, please keep your flame settings on low-heat. As advised in the Ship/modules section, moving this thread here to F&D.
In a recent "unofficial" poll regarding the industry side of Eve, fixing deep-space transports was voted as a top 3 priority by the players. The question is, how to fix them, while still keeping them unique?
After searching the forums, here are some of the solutions I've seen mentioned:

1. Allow for a covert Ops cloak. (I don't see this as much of an option. It just steps on the toes of the BR a bit.)

2. Allow the fitting/use of a micro-jump drive. (Personally, I'm not all that familiar with these. Maybe someone here can point out the pros/cons of how this would help.)

3. Make them tankier? (lol. That just makes your guaranteed death slightly slower.)

4. Make DSTs a combat-oriented transporter. (This could be a bit interesting, absolutely. Not a simple solution though. Would take a decent amount of balancing cycles, I'm thinking.)

Really, the biggest issue with the use of a Deep-space transport in Null, is those pesky warp bubbles. That's theoretically it. The DST 'can' be viable for quick low-sec runs, a dangerous place where the only missing factor is the bubbles. So, my proposal:

Either allow for Interdiction Nullifiers to be fit to a DST, or just make it a baked in bonus, like the +2 to warp strength. Maybe make a cyno mod unfittable to this ship type to help balance that thought a bit. Not sure if that would much matter.
Yeah yeah. Many pirates are certainly brimming with hatred at the mere thought of that one, but here's why this actually wouldn't be as broken as it might sound to some.

I. Targeted warp disrupters would still work fine against a DST, as would getting a lock and overpowering the warp strength (Not a tough task).

II. the DST is SO darn slow, you'd get another chance to nail it at the next gate if they do manage to warp off.

III. Finally, initiating warp in a DST happens to eat up quite a bit of cap charge. This is exacerbated by the use of a MWD+ cloak. If you're making many jumps in this ship, you won't finish a full warp at some point. Usually sooner rather than later.

The BR would still be the go-to ship for Nul-sec hauling when possible, but at least there'd be a solo option for a ship with a better cargo hold.
All that said, I'm definitely not the most experienced Eve player, and I would love to hear other's thoughts and ideas on how to actually make this type of ship, which takes a good amount of training, used for its intended purpose in "lawless space."

Lose the +2 Warp Core Stabilizer bonus and I will support this.

Reason for this is that either one is powerful on its own... both combined with no penalties in other areas would make fairly immune to soloists and "light" tackle.

I like how you are thinking, but I am leaning towards ships lacking offensive merit having better options to avoid engagements.

A PvP ship should always be easier to catch, and certainly more willing to be.

That's exactly why I, and I believe others, actually enjoy hauling. Hauling isn't about fighting or having better fits. It's about using your available tools and wits to avoid or survive the fights long enough to get the heck out. A bit more interesting than the combat, in my opinion. So, I'd prefer for transport ships to focus on the "flight" in fight or flight.

Combat would be moronic. It would have to be very very tough to even worry a solo cruiser.

However built in Nullifier and able to fit an MJD would be cool

And in agreeing with you overall, with the exception of how you are relating it here, I point out the haulers certainly don't have it all.

The Badger roams would be awesome to see, though....

Yeah, nullified transport - why not. Have a bump.

Aw, I see. That option does look all that great for a DST. Align times are already ridiculously slow, then you'd have the spool-up time on top of it. Not to mention the cooldown timer for MJD would really hurt the purpose of actually hauling. Just makes me want the Interdiction nullifier that much more. lol.

Plus, sling bubbles. Hate those. So very, very much. Even in an empty system with a BR. I hate those. ><

I'm quite fond of my bustard's 600 DPS tank. It can't hold it for long because it uses ancillary boosters, but it's good enough for moving stuff in highsec with war targets about.
I almost never see haulers used in null unless it's alliance space and carriers or jump frieghters wouldn't fit the job. I think if transports were adapted for better null utility, then they would be much more useful, living up to the 'deep space' bit of their job description.
I don't think MJD's are warranted though, they really only fit battleships due to their size.

I've flown these quite a lot, originally as someone doing ninja PI in the Great Wildlands.

First off the +2 warp core strength is really useful. I've been caught by a solo frig a few times and been able to warp off. One time a rather skilful pilot kept bumping me and I hit warp with 20% structure left to his enormous disappointment after a tense 2 minute struggle.

When you get caught it tends to be one of two things - (if you're self-scouting you can usually avoid both of these with enough patience).

1) unexpected soloer, possibly a cloaky.

2) gate camp.

I jump in and if there's someone on grid I pan the camera around to find a direction that looks clear while holding gate cloak - straight down is often good. I then hit mwd, cloak and mwd again because sometimes the first button you hit gives you a cannot do that while cloaked error.

So I guess there's the first point - is hitting mwd and cloak at the same time intended gameplay or a borderline exploit?

OK, so once I've pushed myself away a bit from the decloak attempts I'll then usually align to a celestial. If i'm unlucky and get decloaked I'll already be going quarter speed so there's a chance I'll get off the grid if they don't bump me or kill me quickly.

An alternative technique is mwd/cloak while aligning and if decloaked just before the end of the mwd cycle or if you deliberately decloak yourself you should instawarp. The 90% mwd trick.

I spent a lot of time and lost several ships getting to this point, a point where I routinely fly these ships around null without losing them but I achieve that by self-scouting and waiting out camps - it's not unusual for me to wait 20 hours as it's just as alt and all I'm doing is going back once every few hours to see if the system's cleared. That shouldn't be standard gameplay as for most players, especially if they just have one account it would be horribly boring.

I'm ok with the idea that these ships might be crawling through a hostile camp hoping to get out of the bubble. I do think though there should be some option if you've missed the decloakers to escape once you've crawled slowly out to 20/30km. There isn't and you have to keep limping away at 12 m/s while watching TV.

Another issue for the ships are the large boosts T1 industrials got yesterday. I'd never haul my PI in a DST now when I haul triple in an Iteron.

So I'd suggest the following:

- the heavy cap use for warp doesn't make sense in a ship designed to operate in the darkest wilds of space
- the slow align time equally doesn't make sense. Both of these are worse than a T1.
- cloaky nullified is too strong. I'd suggest something like the black ops move full speed while cloaked bonus so you can align and burn out of bubbles but the camp still has some chance to get you. The black ops ship bonus would solve the problem of letting you escape once you've eluded the camp and got out to 25km - currently you're scared to decloak because they could still catch you before you entered warp.
- cargo needs to match or exceed T1 industrials
- the current rather slow warp speed is fine as it gives camps that miss you the possibility to race to the next gate and try to get you there, making content for them.
- the Transport ships bonus are lacklustre. I've never wanted to train up for more armour and rep amount because normally you're either caught or not caught and if caught more hit points won't help.
- it's completely ok that the mechanics are a little hard to learn and that new players will lose some DSTs to gate camps while learning.
- neither side should have an I win button (like cloaky nullify) If a DST jumps into a camp it should be an exciting contest where the hare has a chance to escape and the hounds have a chance to catch.