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Missions & Complexes

 
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Do missions need a revamp?

First post
Author
Ghost Phius
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#201 - 2013-10-23 01:32:00 UTC
Savira Terrant wrote:
Maybe a good idea. But phrased really poorly. Can you please change your ego-outlet to a properly formulated proposal?
Maybe you can then add where the ressources will come from for those missions and how they will be properly balanced to not be 500 million ISK/hour riskless ISK-faucets. Thanks.



I think you totally misunderstood the post. Maybe after taking a look at FRED you can reformulate your question or not, your choice.
Gimme more Cynos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#202 - 2013-10-24 00:20:20 UTC
Anselm Cenobite wrote:
There's some (justified) scepticism about making PvE similar to PvE. I understand that running missions can never be exactly like PvP. I do think some excitement might come from a few tweaks to make them more similar, however. I've tossed this idea out before a few years ago, but I'll repeat it here as an idea (cut-and-paste):

The main reason PvE is so different from PvP is that none of the current PvP missions require you to fit a warp scrambler to stop an NPC from warping off, at which point you fail the mission, nor do the current PvE missions require you to use certain useful PvP skills like combat probing, safespots, and breaking gate-camps.

The need to fit a point on a PvP ship necessitates very different fitting strategies from PvE ships. The need to use these other skills require very different playing strategies. If CCP wants to blur the distinction between PvP and PvE, or at least use PvE as a stepping stone toward PvP skills, they should add missions akin to these:

(1) An L1 mission where the pilot must fit a tackler ship and tackle a fast-moving NPC target--one that microwarps back and forth across the complex. One it is tackled, he must survive its drones and counter-fire long enough for slow NPC allies to appear and kill the main ship. (At higher versions, like L3, he doesn't have any NPC allies to help kill the ship--he must bring buddies or kill it himself).

(2) An L2 mission where the pilot must maneuver his unarmed stealthy ship through an artificial NPC gate-camp. Once he hops through the fake gate, he has the normal temporarily cloak, but must get away from a dozen or so NPC tacklers in position and trying to get fast locks on him.

(3) An L3 mission in which the pilot has to use combat probes to locate a single target NPC ship in deep space. The NPC ship has three randomly positioned safespots, and it warps between them every 3-5 minutes. He must scan it down and tackle it--if he engages in combat with it untackled, it warps off and creates a new three safespots to switch between. In an L4 version, he flies off if the combat probes stay out too long, to simulate how players run if probes are visible on d-scan for too long.

(4) An L3 mission in which the pilot is assigned a bounty target to destroy. The L3 version is a NPC located somewhere in the same region and on the move. This mission pays a little extra cash so the pilot can use locator agents to find him. An L4 version is one in which the bounty target is an actual player with an existing bounty--but the player has extra cash in the reward from the NPC agent, since that player has -5 standings with the NPC faction for whatever reason.

(5) An L2 mission in which the pilot must scan down and enter a special wormhole in a cloaky ship. Once he enters it, he is randomly kicked out into deep nulsec. He must get out of nulsec and back into high-sec with his ship intact to gain the cash reward. An L3 version might be one in which he can only use non-cloaky ships to complete the mission.

(6) An L2 mission in which a cloaky pilot must maneuver toward and tackle a target NPC mining barge mining illegally in the midst of a crowded asteroid field--one in which the asteroids and other non-targetted NPC ships are moving back and forth. He must keep his cloak and avoid coming within 2 km of objects until he is in tackling position of the barge, then hold it for ransom and /or destroy the barge.

(7) A mission in which the pilot must not only destroy an NPC ship, he must tackle and capture escape pods emerging from them.

You get the idea. Making a few new missions for tacklers, probers, and scouts would add a lot of variety and prep PvE players for smoother transition to PvP, if they are interested in it.


OK so,

1.) OK
2.) Cov-ops and go, boring mission
3.) Decline - If I want to scan, I go exploring
4.) Decline - max 3 jumps distance for a mission, anything more than that is stupid and boring
5.) Decline - see above, more than 3 jumps per mission is not going to happen
6.) Decline - too much of a hassle, although it's a funny idea
7.) Tackling Pods in Highsec, without bubbles and with serverlag - good idea.. not.

Seriously, some guyz should do some actual PvE in this game. Such ideas are no help, a waste of dev-time and would upset a lot of people. Not because they are necessarily bad, more because such idea's wont solve the issue while creating other issues.

You might have fun for once, but then it's boring again because you exactly know what happens the next time. Randomization is what's needed, not "new missions" which are booring after 2 days again..

It's either randomization or someone who writes new missions 24/7.
Savira Terrant
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#203 - 2013-10-24 10:55:13 UTC
Ghost Phius wrote:
Savira Terrant wrote:
Maybe a good idea. But phrased really poorly. Can you please change your ego-outlet to a properly formulated proposal?
Maybe you can then add where the ressources will come from for those missions and how they will be properly balanced to not be 500 million ISK/hour riskless ISK-faucets. Thanks.



I think you totally misunderstood the post. Maybe after taking a look at FRED you can reformulate your question or not, your choice.



I know what FRED is, was doing fun stuff with it in the past. I may be the only one to actually understand what you want. That's why I was asking you to rephrase your post to a proposal, that can be taken seriously.
It's said that you are not willing to think about the implications of your proposal, to adress issues that could come up. So it will just end up in this forums nirvana.

Your choice.

.

Ghost Phius
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#204 - 2013-10-24 14:21:24 UTC
Savira Terrant wrote:
Ghost Phius wrote:
Savira Terrant wrote:
Maybe a good idea. But phrased really poorly. Can you please change your ego-outlet to a properly formulated proposal?
Maybe you can then add where the ressources will come from for those missions and how they will be properly balanced to not be 500 million ISK/hour riskless ISK-faucets. Thanks.



I think you totally misunderstood the post. Maybe after taking a look at FRED you can reformulate your question or not, your choice.



I know what FRED is, was doing fun stuff with it in the past. I may be the only one to actually understand what you want. That's why I was asking you to rephrase your post to a proposal, that can be taken seriously.
It's said that you are not willing to think about the implications of your proposal, to adress issues that could come up. So it will just end up in this forums nirvana.

Your choice.


CCP go look at FRED mission builder in the space game FREESPACE and give us that or not your choice period end of discussion.

I
Savira Terrant
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#205 - 2013-10-24 16:15:51 UTC
Ghost Phius wrote:
Savira Terrant wrote:
Ghost Phius wrote:
Savira Terrant wrote:
Maybe a good idea. But phrased really poorly. Can you please change your ego-outlet to a properly formulated proposal?
Maybe you can then add where the ressources will come from for those missions and how they will be properly balanced to not be 500 million ISK/hour riskless ISK-faucets. Thanks.



I think you totally misunderstood the post. Maybe after taking a look at FRED you can reformulate your question or not, your choice.



I know what FRED is, was doing fun stuff with it in the past. I may be the only one to actually understand what you want. That's why I was asking you to rephrase your post to a proposal, that can be taken seriously.
It's said that you are not willing to think about the implications of your proposal, to adress issues that could come up. So it will just end up in this forums nirvana.

Your choice.


CCP go look at FRED mission builder in the space game FREESPACE and give us that or not your choice period end of discussion.

I


Hell no.

.

Ghost Phius
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#206 - 2013-10-26 00:52:25 UTC
Savira Terrant wrote:


Hell no.



Yeah that makes a ton of sense.Roll
Savira Terrant
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#207 - 2013-10-26 01:39:14 UTC
Ghost Phius wrote:
Savira Terrant wrote:


Hell no.



Yeah that makes a ton of sense.Roll


I won't elaborate, because you won't think about the implications of such a powerful mission editor in EVE.

.

Lisa Eullon
Zahadu
#208 - 2013-10-28 08:49:24 UTC
Been playing eve for good few years and omg still same missions lol.
I would love to see harder missions like lvl5 but in hi sec where i could do PVE don't want Pvp while doing pve.
Mission where i could use two three accounts. Like incursion but for smaller gangs.
Atm either you do solo or you do 5+ (wormewholes c4) or incursion.
Good story would be nice too.
Ghost Phius
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#209 - 2013-10-28 16:58:40 UTC
Savira Terrant wrote:


I won't elaborate, because you won't think about the implications of such a powerful mission editor in EVE.



I have thought about them and there would need to be some type of govener I get that part. When City of Heroes implemented user based missions it was HUGELY popular but they did have to put the panties on the XP whores...I thought that was a given.

Moving beyond the obvious, the power of FRED was not really about isk/hr(which I agreed above needs to be reasonable), it was the ability to basically write movie/stories within the mission and to have the full control of the mission assets via sexpressions to do so.

It would take a creative thinker and one with power in CCP to see anything near FRED in this game. Right now CCP does not have one employee/dev that fits the bill and sadly probably never will.
Cpt Ares
Appetite 4 Destruction
#210 - 2013-10-30 09:49:24 UTC
Personally, I think the current missions should be left alone. However, new missions could be added with some of the changes that a few people have suggested.

I think there should be level 4 missions that could only be ran with a dictor or below. Maybe a similar to a 1v1 and if you don’t get a scram on the mission objective before they warp out you fail the mission. Add some were there are only a couple of high bounty/DPS/tanked battleships that make you work for it.

I know the hi sec level 5s were a bug, but they were fun to run with corp-mates. Level 4 versions could be brought in were each member is paid out LP/Bounty similar to the way incursions are but at a lower rate.

Add more epic Arcs for the other pirate factions. NPC null would also be great for the level 4s that have to be ran in the smaller ships.

I know the system spawn was changed a few expansions back, but when I lived in hi sec I would just turn down any missions that spawned too far away or in low sec. Worst case I would just travel to another hi sec lvl4 agent and run missions with them until my 4 hour timer was up. In NPC null, I do the same thing by just turning down any mission that spawns in a “hostile” system, so I’m not sure how effective the change was.

Last, I think if I take a negative standings hit for shooting a ship for one entity, I should get a positive gain for the faction I am running the mission for. Not as high but at least some kind of gain.
Savira Terrant
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#211 - 2013-10-30 10:26:02 UTC
Cpt Ares wrote:
Personally, I think the current missions should be left alone. However, new missions could be added with some of the changes that a few people have suggested.

I think there should be level 4 missions that could only be ran with a dictor or below. Maybe a similar to a 1v1 and if you don’t get a scram on the mission objective before they warp out you fail the mission. Add some were there are only a couple of high bounty/DPS/tanked battleships that make you work for it.

I know the hi sec level 5s were a bug, but they were fun to run with corp-mates. Level 4 versions could be brought in were each member is paid out LP/Bounty similar to the way incursions are but at a lower rate.

Add more epic Arcs for the other pirate factions. NPC null would also be great for the level 4s that have to be ran in the smaller ships.

I know the system spawn was changed a few expansions back, but when I lived in hi sec I would just turn down any missions that spawned too far away or in low sec. Worst case I would just travel to another hi sec lvl4 agent and run missions with them until my 4 hour timer was up. In NPC null, I do the same thing by just turning down any mission that spawns in a “hostile” system, so I’m not sure how effective the change was.

Last, I think if I take a negative standings hit for shooting a ship for one entity, I should get a positive gain for the faction I am running the mission for. Not as high but at least some kind of gain.


I concur with you. If anything, missions and their payouts in EVE need to be refactored to not discourage group play.

Though I am still thinking that making them any closer to PVP is detrimental, because PVP should stay PVP and PVE should stay something else - whatever that may be.

Actually, I think the Incursions should just go away - as in moving the story on - and group missions should take their place.

.

Lucius Serjanus
Ood Mineral Resources Management
#212 - 2013-10-30 12:19:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucius Serjanus
A couple points that I would make about changing missions-

1) Missions have to remain grindable
The cool story line arc or tricky AI is fun the first time, and maybe even the 5th time...... but after that it becomes annoying.

2) An easy way to make missions more dynamic is to force player to try different ships.
Level 4 missions should "sometimes" require different ships. If all I ever need to grind missions is a tengu ... then what is the point to having so many other options.

Some examples-
a) The player has to "tackle" and lock down a target until the NPC navy shows up.
b) missions that requires stealth
c) The Navy needs the player to use a frig and a "back door" gate to destroy something during the Navy's attack.
d) put the player in a logistics ship during a battle (maybe to boring)
and on and on

also don't forget --- missions that require different ships should offer greater rewards, while also not giving a standing hit for turning them down.


As pilots in EVE we should have a hanger full of ships making missions more dynamic and at the same time, helping the economy
Marcus Walkuris
Aww yeahhh
#213 - 2013-10-30 17:18:35 UTC
I wish they would just add some X-factors to missions.
Different spawn possibilities with an understood maximum/minimum amount of frig/bc/cruisers/bs in said mission.
So pocket waves may spawn differently and maybe have like a mission officer jump into a pocket once in a while.
This officer wouldn't drop faction loot but it would have a higher bounty better salvage and maybe a little higher loot table aside from shooting harder and needing immediate attention.
With some warning with intercepted calls for backup etc. akin to complexes.
Just a thought.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#214 - 2013-11-02 00:39:18 UTC
I find it amusing that I can wander into a deadspace pocket in full view of three groups of NPCs, start shooting and only the ones I shoot will shoot back. It's like "guards" in many FPS games: they'll just stand there watching you kill their friends and do nothing!

Lucius' ideas seem interesting, I'd like to see more missions where the aim isn't just to blow up everything that moves. I really liked The Anomaly, and it's nice to revisit every now and then.

The mission developers could do a lot worse than play through the Wing Commander and X-Wing series of games, in order to seek inspiration. One of my favourite missions was doing surveillance in an A-Wing. There was no way an A-Wing was going to destroy the Imperial Star Destroyers, and you had TIE Fighters and TIE Interceptors to deal with too. The aim was only to stay in the area gathering intel until the timer was up, then get home safely.