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Eve = Sociopath's Playground

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Osileon Yoshimeru
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#181 - 2013-09-03 07:33:18 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
I'd like to thank Erotica 1, the Order, and Carbuilder for allowing the creation of this content and improving the overall quality of the game for us all.
embrel
BamBam Inc.
#182 - 2013-09-03 07:35:49 UTC
tragicomedy.
it's not one of my hobbies to tread on the stupid, but I see that some stupidity needs to be trodden on.
It might be a cheaper lesson in-game than IRL and the "victims" of such actions surely need a few of them.
However, it needs a special breed to push such a scam through. It's like stealing candy from a toddler...
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#183 - 2013-09-03 07:40:37 UTC
ITT suckers, and spaceship lawyers. I've got no sympathy for the suckers, and detest the space lawyers, because lawyers.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#184 - 2013-09-03 07:51:03 UTC
A fool and his ISK are soon parted. It is good to see people like Erotica1, New Order agents and James315 bring some life to the otherwise dull hisec.

As for being silly on teamspeak... by singing? Go around asking wormhole groups how they ransom people and how many recordings of national anthems or random songs they have. And that's just ransoms, not a choir of slurred voices singing over teamspeak during a drunken roam. So either get some distance to the fact you're being silly or don't do it, it's just space pixels.

Every "noob" in EVE is, sooner or later, shot in the back, blobbed, scammed, robbed or generally meets a big stone "WELCOME TO THE HARSH WORLD OF EVE" face-first. The best thing he can do about it is control the velocity of impact. If you artificially protect them from their own carelessness, they will never cease to be noobs.

And last, yes, welcome to the Sociopath's playground. The value of your rights measures in caliber of the gun you happen to be rockin' multiplied by how many people you have backing you up.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph
Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#185 - 2013-09-03 08:12:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Nyla Skin
Snagletooth Johnson wrote:

...and thw winner of the Darwin award goes to....?


Never underestimate human stupidity.

ps. Darwin award is only given to people who remove themselves from the gene pool by committing suicide with their stupidity. I guess it doesn't apply here.

In after the lock :P   - CCP Falcon www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#186 - 2013-09-03 08:36:38 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
Morihei Akachi wrote:
make him do things


No. Anything he did, he chose to do. He was never under any physical duress, and could have simply ended the whole affair at any time. He should seek help, if he can't control himself to that extent, because others will simply take advantage of him his entire life. It doesn't make the behavior of the others acceptable or right, but ultimately he should be in control of his own actions.

Wow this thread got long.
Just wanted to comment specifically on this one and the other posts saying a similar thing. This right here is bullying. You can say "oh he chose to do it, he's weak", but he was specifically targeted because he was weak, in exactly the same way as any internet bully targets people.
With the current crackdown on internet bullying, and several court cases, some even resulting in prison sentences, it's been made clear that internet bullying is not OK. Sure, they can just not join, and sure they could block you, but that's always the case and it's failed as a defense. You should not be treating someone like this regardless of if you think they should have left or not. It's easy for a bully to simply say the victim was stupid, and brought it on themselves, but that changes nothing.

These people took the abuse out of game, they chose to pick on someone weaker than them to make them feel better about themselves, and to be honest, they deserve considerably more punishment than a ban from the game.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Khemax
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#187 - 2013-09-03 08:41:59 UTC
People are missing one major thing....

This was recorded and put up on a publicly available site WITHOUT HIS CONSENT

In most countries including the US as far as I can research, this is a violation of his rights, more so that when asked if they could publish it he refused.

Granted the in game scam fine, that's a life lesson but they should never have put the recoding up for public access, and the extent to which they took it from a scam to humiliation was too far.
If this guy decides that he could take legal action for the recording being made available then the people who posted it could be in trouble.
CCP needs to get involved in this and at least have it removed before too much damage has been done.

Just because he was silly enough to let this happen in the first place, does not negate his legal rights to privacy. In a lot of countries it is illegal to publicly post a picture of someone, even a celeb, without their consent.
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#188 - 2013-09-03 08:50:03 UTC
Khemax wrote:
People are missing one major thing....

This was recorded and put up on a publicly available site WITHOUT HIS CONSENT

In most countries including the US as far as I can research, this is a violation of his rights, more so that when asked if they could publish it he refused.

Granted the in game scam fine, that's a life lesson but they should never have put the recoding up for public access, and the extent to which they took it from a scam to humiliation was too far.
If this guy decides that he could take legal action for the recording being made available then the people who posted it could be in trouble.
CCP needs to get involved in this and at least have it removed before too much damage has been done.

Just because he was silly enough to let this happen in the first place, does not negate his legal rights to privacy. In a lot of countries it is illegal to publicly post a picture of someone, even a celeb, without their consent.


Well, CCP doesn't need to get involved or even do a thing. Since the recording was made using third-party software and published on a third-party website, the only person that can do anything about it is someone who disagrees with it being published.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#189 - 2013-09-03 08:51:39 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
he was specifically targeted

No he wasn't. He approached Erotica to double his isk and he lost because he broke a few simple rules.

Oh god.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#190 - 2013-09-03 08:56:37 UTC
Khemax wrote:
This was recorded and put up on a publicly available site WITHOUT HIS CONSENT

In most countries including the US as far as I can research, this is a violation of his rights

Whose rights?

Oh god.
Stocki Stock
Intercosmic Fruit Company
#191 - 2013-09-03 08:59:57 UTC
This is EvE. Here you can meet the botom of mankind. I Meran, you not only can call people call to drive a person into suicide (no, no virtual suicide) (nearly) without consequences. No, you will be celebrated for such a behavior...

Welcome to the dark, harsh world of EvE Online!
Ressiv
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#192 - 2013-09-03 09:02:04 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Domanique Altares wrote:
Morihei Akachi wrote:
make him do things


No. Anything he did, he chose to do. He was never under any physical duress, and could have simply ended the whole affair at any time. He should seek help, if he can't control himself to that extent, because others will simply take advantage of him his entire life. It doesn't make the behavior of the others acceptable or right, but ultimately he should be in control of his own actions.

Wow this thread got long.
Just wanted to comment specifically on this one and the other posts saying a similar thing. This right here is bullying. You can say "oh he chose to do it, he's weak", but he was specifically targeted because he was weak, in exactly the same way as any internet bully targets people.
With the current crackdown on internet bullying, and several court cases, some even resulting in prison sentences, it's been made clear that internet bullying is not OK. Sure, they can just not join, and sure they could block you, but that's always the case and it's failed as a defense. You should not be treating someone like this regardless of if you think they should have left or not. It's easy for a bully to simply say the victim was stupid, and brought it on themselves, but that changes nothing.

These people took the abuse out of game, they chose to pick on someone weaker than them to make them feel better about themselves, and to be honest, they deserve considerably more punishment than a ban from the game.


You are aware that bullying is a social mechanism to enforce learning how to behave in that group ? It's the group telling you that you suck. To a certain extend it can even be helpfull as in a world where people think for themselves, it might trigger the odd 'hmmm meeting the same response again from different people ... could it be me ?' response and help someone get rid of disfunctional behaviour .. .all the while with just spacepixels as cost.

He should be protected from real life consequences .. like loosing his house the same way, or his car .. to a degree .. but if you insist to act stupid and expect a sane response, you really do need professional help. His wife agrees btw .. listen to audio at 1:22:29 and onward ...
TheBlueMonkey
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#193 - 2013-09-03 09:05:08 UTC
The guys greed lead to his "humiliation" (OH NOES, I HAS TO SING) and tbh, at best he learnt a lesson that may help him not get scammed in real life for something that actually matters.
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#194 - 2013-09-03 09:19:33 UTC
They're not REALLY bad people.

It was just a space scam.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#195 - 2013-09-03 09:22:14 UTC
Khemax wrote:
People are missing one major thing....

This was recorded and put up on a publicly available site WITHOUT HIS CONSENT


Also, without identifying information. No personal details = no crime.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#196 - 2013-09-03 09:22:45 UTC
Ressiv wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Domanique Altares wrote:
Morihei Akachi wrote:
make him do things


No. Anything he did, he chose to do. He was never under any physical duress, and could have simply ended the whole affair at any time. He should seek help, if he can't control himself to that extent, because others will simply take advantage of him his entire life. It doesn't make the behavior of the others acceptable or right, but ultimately he should be in control of his own actions.

Wow this thread got long.
Just wanted to comment specifically on this one and the other posts saying a similar thing. This right here is bullying. You can say "oh he chose to do it, he's weak", but he was specifically targeted because he was weak, in exactly the same way as any internet bully targets people.
With the current crackdown on internet bullying, and several court cases, some even resulting in prison sentences, it's been made clear that internet bullying is not OK. Sure, they can just not join, and sure they could block you, but that's always the case and it's failed as a defense. You should not be treating someone like this regardless of if you think they should have left or not. It's easy for a bully to simply say the victim was stupid, and brought it on themselves, but that changes nothing.

These people took the abuse out of game, they chose to pick on someone weaker than them to make them feel better about themselves, and to be honest, they deserve considerably more punishment than a ban from the game.


You are aware that bullying is a social mechanism to enforce learning how to behave in that group ? It's the group telling you that you suck. To a certain extend it can even be helpfull as in a world where people think for themselves, it might trigger the odd 'hmmm meeting the same response again from different people ... could it be me ?' response and help someone get rid of disfunctional behaviour .. .all the while with just spacepixels as cost.

He should be protected from real life consequences .. like loosing his house the same way, or his car .. to a degree .. but if you insist to act stupid and expect a sane response, you really do need professional help. His wife agrees btw .. listen to audio at 1:22:29 and onward ...

You can sit there and try to justify it all you like. Fact is, that society nowadays does not allow you to bully someone regardless of whether you think they had a chance to get out of it or not. I'm generally on the side of "man the **** up", but that's simply not the way it's fallen.
And from my point of view, these people have added nothing, they've simply abused someone that was an easy target simply so they can have some fun. Whether he's stupid, or requires professional help is beside the point. What they did was morally and in many places legally wrong.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#197 - 2013-09-03 09:29:54 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Here, I will go ahead and give my final word on the matter.

It is an order of magnitude beyond intellectually dishonest to advocate for or attempt to arrange for real world punishments based on your reactions to someone or something in a media that is entirely voluntary to participate in.

If you do believe that you get to legislate your hurt feelings against someone, then as far as I am concerned, you are already damned. Nevermind that, in such a case, your opinion shouldn't count because you are so far from being rational you might as well be freebasing handfuls of Ambien.

So, if you think that the "perpetrator" of this "scam" needs to be punished, or if you are in the "something has to be done!" category of people? Congratulations, you are what is wrong with civilized society.

A civilized society doesn't advocate bullying in any form.
You can say all of this, yet people still get sued, and even prison sentences for abusing people on facebook, on twitter and even forums. Whether or not it's voluntary participation is beside the point. I can't throw rocks at you, and then claim that since you chose to stand where I was throwing rocks, it's not my fault they hit you.

The fact of it although is that it's already illegal in many countries to bully people, regardless of the format or method of delivery, so you can say what you want, it doesn't change it's legality, which in this case appears to me to be across the line.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#198 - 2013-09-03 09:44:43 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
people still get sued, and even prison sentences for abusing people on facebook, on twitter and even forums.
Those are attacks or threats against real identities. In this case, we are dealing with an anonymous identity where no attacks or threats were issued. There was no blackmail either.

Quote:
Whether or not it's voluntary participation is beside the point. I can't throw rocks at you, and then claim that since you chose to stand where I was throwing rocks, it's not my fault they hit you.
It's your fault if you can't read the sign warning you not to stand there.

Quote:
The fact of it although is that it's already illegal in many countries to bully people, regardless of the format or method of delivery, so you can say what you want, it doesn't change it's legality, which in this case appears to me to be across the line
So are you going to back this up with evidence because to me, it seems no more distressful than corpse camping someone in any other online game, which can be also be a humiliating form of online bullying in video games.

Oh god.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#199 - 2013-09-03 09:50:03 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Here, I will go ahead and give my final word on the matter.

It is an order of magnitude beyond intellectually dishonest to advocate for or attempt to arrange for real world punishments based on your reactions to someone or something in a media that is entirely voluntary to participate in.

If you do believe that you get to legislate your hurt feelings against someone, then as far as I am concerned, you are already damned. Nevermind that, in such a case, your opinion shouldn't count because you are so far from being rational you might as well be freebasing handfuls of Ambien.

So, if you think that the "perpetrator" of this "scam" needs to be punished, or if you are in the "something has to be done!" category of people? Congratulations, you are what is wrong with civilized society.

A civilized society doesn't advocate bullying in any form.
You can say all of this, yet people still get sued, and even prison sentences for abusing people on facebook, on twitter and even forums. Whether or not it's voluntary participation is beside the point. I can't throw rocks at you, and then claim that since you chose to stand where I was throwing rocks, it's not my fault they hit you.

The fact of it although is that it's already illegal in many countries to bully people, regardless of the format or method of delivery, so you can say what you want, it doesn't change it's legality, which in this case appears to me to be across the line.


As a victim of bullying myself, I can tell you straight up, what happened in this recording was not bullying.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Louise Beethoven
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#200 - 2013-09-03 09:53:57 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Here, I will go ahead and give my final word on the matter.

It is an order of magnitude beyond intellectually dishonest to advocate for or attempt to arrange for real world punishments based on your reactions to someone or something in a media that is entirely voluntary to participate in.

If you do believe that you get to legislate your hurt feelings against someone, then as far as I am concerned, you are already damned. Nevermind that, in such a case, your opinion shouldn't count because you are so far from being rational you might as well be freebasing handfuls of Ambien.

So, if you think that the "perpetrator" of this "scam" needs to be punished, or if you are in the "something has to be done!" category of people? Congratulations, you are what is wrong with civilized society.

A civilized society doesn't advocate bullying in any form.
You can say all of this, yet people still get sued, and even prison sentences for abusing people on facebook, on twitter and even forums. Whether or not it's voluntary participation is beside the point. I can't throw rocks at you, and then claim that since you chose to stand where I was throwing rocks, it's not my fault they hit you.

The fact of it although is that it's already illegal in many countries to bully people, regardless of the format or method of delivery, so you can say what you want, it doesn't change it's legality, which in this case appears to me to be across the line.


As a victim of bullying myself, I can tell you straight up, what happened in this recording was not bullying.

I was bullied for while years ago. What happened here, at least in some parts, was absolutely bullying