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Dual XL ASB marauders overpowered
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Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#21 - 2013-09-06 11:45:45 UTC
The Spod wrote:
Tbh the t2 resists and utility highs alone would warrant marauder price tag. MJD bonus and bastion are just overkill bonuses :)



As they are proposed now Marauders are powercreeping the meta a LOT even if you don't count MJD's and bastion

t2 res battleships were never introduced for a reason, its just.. so awful i cannot believe ccp will do this.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2013-09-06 12:16:35 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
powercreeping


Agreed. I could see marauders being t2 resist but adding anything to that is pretty dangerous. The utility highs could even be there to make them RR battleships on steroids. This would do for me on marauders.

MJD + target spectrum breaker + t2 resists could bring back warping when primaried but also introduce undying marauders. Worst case would be if the target breaker would trigger enough to make a high EHP fit really slow to kill even for big fleets. It's a really risky thing, because a bastion marauder ball would be unbreakable by anything similiar sized: the ships would target break making multi target queues suck, while dishing out superior unjammable dps.


CCP seems fixed on the bastion mode and I suppose it would take a lot for them to scrap it. If they have to do bastion, t2 resists should really be ditched for the bastion resist bonus. The original idea was just more balanced. If it's supposed to be a subcap powerhouse only counterable by drone doctrines so be it, but tie it to the bastion mode.
Fret Thiesant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2013-09-06 13:50:25 UTC
You know the list of reasons why you didn't put t2 resists on a bs hull were pretty convincing CCP.

At least I was convinced Straight
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#24 - 2013-09-07 23:59:02 UTC
I would just shoot the can. Now u have no reloads.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#25 - 2013-09-08 05:12:04 UTC
The Spod wrote:

It's a really risky thing, because a bastion marauder ball would be unbreakable by anything similiar sized: the ships would target break making multi target queues suck, while dishing out superior unjammable dps.


Sentry Domis / ishtars / Slowcats. (assign drones, one ship locks, no TSB)
Anything which involves Dreads, Nyxes.

Bombers. I mean, hello, a bastioned up ball of marauders would be perfect bait for a bomber wing. You've got a whole minute to bomb the crap out of them and there's no escaping.

Yep. Marauders will blot out the sun.

You really don't like this, do you, Spod? Just come out and say "I plain just don't like it for no reason at all which stands up to scrutiny."

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2013-09-08 10:31:15 UTC
Trinkets friend wrote:
The Spod wrote:

It's a really risky thing, because a bastion marauder ball would be unbreakable by anything similiar sized: the ships would target break making multi target queues suck, while dishing out superior unjammable dps.


Sentry Domis / ishtars / Slowcats. (assign drones, one ship locks, no TSB)
Anything which involves Dreads, Nyxes.

Bombers. I mean, hello, a bastioned up ball of marauders would be perfect bait for a bomber wing. You've got a whole minute to bomb the crap out of them and there's no escaping.

Yep. Marauders will blot out the sun.

You really don't like this, do you, Spod? Just come out and say "I plain just don't like it for no reason at all which stands up to scrutiny."


I have mentioned the sentryblob as the only realistic counter to the marauders.

If there are bombers on the field I prefer MJD blinking t2 resist BS to every other subcap. You do not have to use the bastion module fulltime even if you have fitted one.

The minute cycle is quite hard to break in a cyno bombrun. We are looking at 300-500k ehp in hulls that blink out after a minute and won't bastion when bomber wings are identified on field.
Janeway84
Insane's Asylum
#27 - 2013-09-09 10:26:50 UTC
I think even with t2 resists the new marauders will just turn to scrap metal aginst 3-4 proteus or 5-8 tornados Big smile

People always find a way to counter stuff in eve.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#28 - 2013-09-09 18:28:32 UTC
Janeway84 wrote:
I think even with t2 resists the new marauders will just turn to scrap metal aginst 3-4 proteus or 5-8 tornados Big smile

People always find a way to counter stuff in eve.



Alright, now try to counter 20 marauders and 10 logi with the same amount of ships.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#29 - 2013-09-10 00:55:27 UTC
The Spod wrote:


I have mentioned the sentryblob as the only realistic counter to the marauders.

If there are bombers on the field I prefer MJD blinking t2 resist BS to every other subcap. You do not have to use the bastion module fulltime even if you have fitted one.

The minute cycle is quite hard to break in a cyno bombrun. We are looking at 300-500k ehp in hulls that blink out after a minute and won't bastion when bomber wings are identified on field.


This is an argument based primarily on assumptions. You assume that the marauder fleet knows there are bombers around - this presupposes bad black ops discipline. If this is true, the bomber wing is doing it wrong.

In the marauder thread, you'll note i am not in favour of T2 resists, precisely because of the ability to just run the ships as super-tanky normal BS with logi blob (as Garviel points out). This would be ridiculous.

The first idea, of normal resists, rep bonuses and the basiton module wasn't as frightful as the current iteration - which plays into the whole blob warfare doctrine more easily simply because more resists = better logi.

The first stab at it, with lower resists out of siege, would prevent blob warfare use. in case you missed it with your preoccupation with the TSB and ASBs (which are a nonevent for these ships imo) local reps in fleet fights are pointless whereas buffer is king. So, what's worse? uber local reps and being stuck for 1 minute, or uber resists and catching mad logi? I'd say the latter.

At least the original idea was going to see PVP use restricted to niche specialties and small gang warfare because you basically needed the bastion module to turn on the awesome (but maybe not with the 30% resist bonus, I admit).

Sure, in small gang warfare you might end up evolving tactics that make you a real pain in the butt, but a TSB is worthless for small gang warfare, and ASBs just prolong a horrible death, no matter how insane the tank looks on paper. ie; if you screw up, you just die 10 minutes later.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
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