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Missiles vs Guns - Unbalanced in more than just DPS.
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Felicity Love
Doomheim
#21 - 2013-09-03 02:31:37 UTC
Dev Blogs are your friend. Might take a few hours, but you'll have the gospel straight from the only source that matters, "The Powers That Be".

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
Varesk
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2013-09-03 17:34:08 UTC
these are the skills you need for t2 blasters

gunnery 5
motion prediction 5
medium blasters 5
medium blaster spec 4
small blasters 5
small blaster spec 4
large hybrid turret 5
large blaster spec 1


Now that is a bit longer of a train than what you are saying.
Heinrich Rotwang
Spectre Fleet Corporation
#23 - 2013-09-03 19:50:47 UTC
UGWidowmaker wrote:
misils can fire more than 1 damage type..


So much for the advertising.... good luck with unbonused missiles. You will need it.
Daenika
Chambers of Shaolin
#24 - 2013-09-03 20:32:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Daenika
From a completely blank character to a Torpedo Launcher II:

Quote:
Missile Launcher Operation I
Missile Launcher Operation II
Missile Launcher Operation III
Missile Launcher Operation IV
Light Missiles I
Light Missiles II
Light Missiles III
Heavy Missiles I
Heavy Missiles II
Heavy Missiles III
Torpedoes I
Torpedoes II
Torpedoes III
Torpedoes IV
Torpedoes V
Torpedo Specialization I


Total time: 25 days, 17 hours, 21 minutes, 50 seconds
Est. Cost: 9,540,000


From the same blank character to a Neutron Blaster Cannon II:

Quote:
Gunnery III
Gunnery IV
Gunnery V
Small Hybrid Turret I
Small Hybrid Turret II
Small Hybrid Turret III
Medium Hybrid Turret I
Medium Hybrid Turret II
Medium Hybrid Turret III
Large Hybrid Turret I
Large Hybrid Turret II
Large Hybrid Turret III
Large Hybrid Turret IV
Motion Prediction I
Motion Prediction II
Motion Prediction III
Motion Prediction IV
Motion Prediction V
Small Hybrid Turret IV
Small Hybrid Turret V
Small Blaster Specialization I
Small Blaster Specialization II
Small Blaster Specialization III
Small Blaster Specialization IV
Medium Hybrid Turret IV
Medium Hybrid Turret V
Medium Blaster Specialization I
Medium Blaster Specialization II
Medium Blaster Specialization III
Medium Blaster Specialization IV
Large Hybrid Turret V
Large Blaster Specialization I


Total time: 79 days, 12 hours, 7 minutes, 30 seconds
Est. Cost: 15,180,000


I'm sorry, what were you complaining again?

For reference, fitting both T2 Large turret types takes 60 days for the missiles (Torpedoes and Cruise Missiles) and 100 days for the hybrids (Blasters and Rails).


Also, for reference, medium turrets:

HAMs: 19d 5h
Blasters: 29d 2h

HAMs + HMLs: 37d 0h
Blasters + Rails: 34d 9h


And for small turrets:

Rockets: 5d 23h
Blasters: 6d 7h

Rockets + LMLs: 17d 23h
Blasters + Rails: 6d 7h


Seems pretty even to me. Missiles are rather substantially easier to train into, particularly for larger turrets, but the T2 launchers then don't assume (by not requiring to fit) many of the support skills like the T2 turrets do. For small turrets, sure, it takes more time to get both, but for mediums, it's almost equal, and substantially quicker to get just one, and for large ones, it takes less time to get both launchers to T2 than it takes to get even one turret to T2.
Aivo Dresden
State War Academy
Caldari State
#25 - 2013-09-03 21:28:38 UTC
It should also be noted (my apologies if it already has) that IF you compare t2 torpedos with t2 blasters, that player with the Torpedos can actually ONLY fit the torpedos. If he wants to later fit HM or HAM or Rockets or whatever, he needs to start training again. While the person who's trained blasters, is sorted already, for all ship types and classes. After training t2 blasters, you can fit blasters on any ship any size. The torps are much more limited. I've trained both and ultimately it is pretty much the same. The only difference is that it is indeed a little faster to get 1 specific size of launcher trained; but in the long run if you want to fit different types of launchers on different sizes of ships, it's pretty much the same.
Digits Kho
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2013-09-03 22:27:18 UTC
Daenika wrote:
From a completely blank character to a Torpedo Launcher II:

Quote:
Missile Launcher Operation I
Missile Launcher Operation II
Missile Launcher Operation III
Missile Launcher Operation IV
Light Missiles I
Light Missiles II
Light Missiles III
Heavy Missiles I
Heavy Missiles II
Heavy Missiles III
Torpedoes I
Torpedoes II
Torpedoes III
Torpedoes IV
Torpedoes V
Torpedo Specialization I


Total time: 25 days, 17 hours, 21 minutes, 50 seconds
Est. Cost: 9,540,000


From the same blank character to a Neutron Blaster Cannon II:

Quote:
Gunnery III
Gunnery IV
Gunnery V
Small Hybrid Turret I
Small Hybrid Turret II
Small Hybrid Turret III
Medium Hybrid Turret I
Medium Hybrid Turret II
Medium Hybrid Turret III
Large Hybrid Turret I
Large Hybrid Turret II
Large Hybrid Turret III
Large Hybrid Turret IV
Motion Prediction I
Motion Prediction II
Motion Prediction III
Motion Prediction IV
Motion Prediction V
Small Hybrid Turret IV
Small Hybrid Turret V
Small Blaster Specialization I
Small Blaster Specialization II
Small Blaster Specialization III
Small Blaster Specialization IV
Medium Hybrid Turret IV
Medium Hybrid Turret V
Medium Blaster Specialization I
Medium Blaster Specialization II
Medium Blaster Specialization III
Medium Blaster Specialization IV
Large Hybrid Turret V
Large Blaster Specialization I


Total time: 79 days, 12 hours, 7 minutes, 30 seconds
Est. Cost: 15,180,000


I'm sorry, what were you complaining again?

For reference, fitting both T2 Large turret types takes 60 days for the missiles (Torpedoes and Cruise Missiles) and 100 days for the hybrids (Blasters and Rails).


Also, for reference, medium turrets:

HAMs: 19d 5h
Blasters: 29d 2h

HAMs + HMLs: 37d 0h
Blasters + Rails: 34d 9h


And for small turrets:

Rockets: 5d 23h
Blasters: 6d 7h

Rockets + LMLs: 17d 23h
Blasters + Rails: 6d 7h


Seems pretty even to me. Missiles are rather substantially easier to train into, particularly for larger turrets, but the T2 launchers then don't assume (by not requiring to fit) many of the support skills like the T2 turrets do. For small turrets, sure, it takes more time to get both, but for mediums, it's almost equal, and substantially quicker to get just one, and for large ones, it takes less time to get both launchers to T2 than it takes to get even one turret to T2.


So do projectiles and hybrids have difirent sp costs? Cuz i have both AC and Artis T2 Large turrets to lvl 2 and 3 while having only a lil over 12 milion sp on my character in all skills
Daenika
Chambers of Shaolin
#27 - 2013-09-03 23:12:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Daenika
Quote:
So do projectiles and hybrids have difirent sp costs? Cuz i have both AC and Artis T2 Large turrets to lvl 2 and 3 while having only a lil over 12 milion sp on my character in all skills


I checked, the requirements are the same. Note that the Est. Cost line is in isk, it's not the number of SP (which I didn't include).

On a side note, here's the times for training all 6 weapon types and sizes of a particular class to T2:

Missiles: 112d 18h
Hybrids: 99d 18h (all other turret classes are identical)

Not much difference, to be honest, though it's still around 12%.

If you want to, in addition, train up all specializations to V and all (direct) supporting skills to V, that's where the difference really starts to show, because the turrets include a lot of their supporting skills in their T2 training reqs. Weapon Upgrades and Adv. Weapon Upgrades were excluded, since those are fitting related and apply to both:

Missiles: 420d 17h
Hybrids: 349d 14h
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