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Adapt Freighter and Jump Freighter

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Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#121 - 2013-08-31 11:22:49 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Explain why isk-tanking is a good idea? If freighters were to get this, why not every other ship in the game?


Because the downside of ganking in high sec is supposed to be the cost? Can you name another ship that has alt corporations dedicated to ganking one indiscriminately every ~20 minutes?


Can you name an alt corporation that actually does this, because I don't know of any.

Last I heard Goons were at 500 billion in losses for around 5 trillion in profits from their high sec ganking. Slight imbalance there.


You heard wrong. 5 trillion in kills is not 5 trillion in profits.

Given a lot of their kills are empty Im assuming their profit is tears. But if you like 10:1 isk ratio cost vs damage still very imbalanced.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#122 - 2013-08-31 11:23:53 UTC  |  Edited by: S Byerley
Mallak Azaria wrote:
You are yet to name anyone that actually ganks freighters every 20 minutes.


Bat Country averages 15-20minutes/freighter when they're actively doing it - based on killboard. I assume you're familiar with them at least?
Dave Stark
#123 - 2013-08-31 11:24:24 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Given a lot of their kills are empty Im assuming their profit is tears. But if you like 10:1 isk ratio cost vs damage still very imbalanced.


indeed, now imagine you're making isk for 0 cost like miners. it's a complete absurdity isn't it?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#124 - 2013-08-31 11:24:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Given a lot of their kills are empty Im assuming their profit is tears. But if you like 10:1 isk ratio cost vs damage still very imbalanced.

Nope it's a good investment. It's no different than a Retriever mining ore to the value of 10x its cost before it explodes. In fact any ship that clears 10x its cost before exploding or being sold to another player is a good investment.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#125 - 2013-08-31 11:25:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
S Byerley wrote:
They do when they feel like it?
Most likely, they do it when the opportunity arises, which by the looks of it isn't that often.

Infinity Ziona wrote:
But if you like 10:1 isk ratio cost vs damage still very imbalanced.
It's a lot less than what I get out of my ships…
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#126 - 2013-08-31 11:30:25 UTC
Tippia wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
They do when they feel like it?
Most likely, they do it when the opportunity arises, which by the looks of it isn't that often.


Maybe if their overlord was less demanding. Straight
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#127 - 2013-08-31 11:33:00 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Maybe if their overlord was less demanding. Straight
Maybe if freigther pilots weren't so wily and clever as to not make themselves obvious targets all the time…
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#128 - 2013-08-31 11:45:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
S Byerley wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
You are yet to name anyone that actually ganks freighters every 20 minutes.


Bat Country averages 15-20minutes/freighter when they're actively doing it - based on killboard. I assume you're familiar with them at least?


Bat Country averages 45 combined freighter & JF kills per month. After going through their freighter kills for the last 18 months I only see a dozen instances where freighters or JF's died less than 25 mintues apart. So again, name the alt corp that is suicide ganking freighters every 20 minutes, otherwise you'll have to concede that no one actually does this.

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S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#129 - 2013-08-31 11:53:23 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Bat Country averages 45 combined freighter & JF kills per month. After going through their freighter kills for the last 18 months I only see a dozen instances where freighters or JF's died less than 25 mintues apart. So again, name the alt corp that is suicide ganking freighters every 20 minutes, otherwise you'll have to concede that no one actually does this.


When Tippia admits something and you still refuse to, you should probably reevaluate your life.

The key word was average.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#130 - 2013-08-31 11:55:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
S Byerley wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Bat Country averages 45 combined freighter & JF kills per month. After going through their freighter kills for the last 18 months I only see a dozen instances where freighters or JF's died less than 25 mintues apart. So again, name the alt corp that is suicide ganking freighters every 20 minutes, otherwise you'll have to concede that no one actually does this.


When Tippia admits something and you still refuse to, you should probably reevaluate your life.

The key word was average.


And the killboard says your assumed average is wrong. I also don't see the part where Tippia admitted to ganking freighters every 20 minutes 'on average'. Now, you claim that people are actually doing this, yet the example you gave clearly shows that you are wrong, even when they are actively ganking freighters.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Tarn Kugisa
Kugisa Dynamics
#131 - 2013-08-31 11:56:53 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Yeah they need to be able to fit a tank. Give them fitting abilty. Its pretty stupid an orca can be fit to have 3 times the HP of a freighter.

You'll get a lot of idiots coming into this thread saying theres no problem but they make a living off ganking freighters so theyre biased. You'll also get people who are fanboys of the latter but neither will have a reasonable or sustainable argument so likely you'll get flamed.

I don't gank nor use freighters and its clear to me that when freighters were introduced without fitting it took a sizeable battleship force to kill one. Things have changed a lot and freighters need a rethink.


at least give them a suitcase

Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to troll everyone you meet - KuroVolt
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#132 - 2013-08-31 11:58:47 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Bat Country averages 45 combined freighter & JF kills per month. After going through their freighter kills for the last 18 months I only see a dozen instances where freighters or JF's died less than 25 mintues apart. So again, name the alt corp that is suicide ganking freighters every 20 minutes, otherwise you'll have to concede that no one actually does this.


When Tippia admits something and you still refuse to, you should probably reevaluate your life.

The key word was average.


An average of 45 freighter/JF kills over a 30 day period is one every sixteen hours, not one every twenty minutes.
I suggest you look up the meaning of the word average.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#133 - 2013-08-31 11:59:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
S Byerley wrote:
When Tippia admits something and you still refuse to, you should probably reevaluate your life.
Just to be sure: what do you believe I'm admitting this time?

Because if you think it is in any way in contrast to what Mallak Azaria said, you're wrong. I admitted that they can't get one every ~20 minute on average because, although we often tend to claim otherwise in these threads (and how can you blame us, when the thread starters so often provide evidence to the contrary?), freighter pilots aren't really all stupid and AFK, and actually present fewer viable targets than one might think given all the whining.

Bat Country does not qualify for the claimed 15–20 minute average, and it definitely isn't indiscriminate (hell, they're not even much of an alt corp).
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#134 - 2013-08-31 12:01:59 UTC
As I said in my first post arguing against ganking freighters when the overriding principle supporting it is based on a refusal to acknowledge its misplaced and imbalanced position in the game gets everyone nowhere. Have fun till CCP nerfs it just like the Lofty trick everyone thought was balanced and fine.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#135 - 2013-08-31 12:04:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Infinity Ziona wrote:
As I said in my first post arguing against ganking freighters when the overriding principle supporting it is based on a refusal to acknowledge its misplaced and imbalanced position in the game gets everyone nowhere.
In what way is it misplaced or imbalanced?

Maybe this “refusal to acknowledge” this position is because the position has never actually been properly articulated or proven… hmm?
Lugalbandak
Doomheim
#136 - 2013-08-31 12:09:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugalbandak
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Yeah they need to be able to fit a tank. Give them fitting abilty. Its pretty stupid an orca can be fit to have 3 times the HP of a freighter.

You'll get a lot of idiots coming into this thread saying theres no problem but they make a living off ganking freighters so theyre biased. You'll also get people who are fanboys of the latter but neither will have a reasonable or sustainable argument so likely you'll get flamed.

I don't gank nor use freighters and its clear to me that when freighters were introduced without fitting it took a sizeable battleship force to kill one. Things have changed a lot and freighters need a rethink.


If CCP gave freighters the ability to fit a tank, people would fit cargohold expanders instead. This would also mean freighters base cargohold would have to be heavily nerfed to account for that. In the end, the only viable fitting option would be to fit cargohold mods. For anything else you would just use an Orca.


Wy would de base cargohold heavily nerfed? its freighter , it hauls large stuff. orca is something different.

I agree with ziona , you used to have bs fleets , and you make it sound ALL the ppl gonna fit cargo expanders , but thats a lie .

Like she said you biased and you dont want ccp nerf your incom wich i can understand , but after shuttle to have ships that cannot be fitted is plain stupid

edit: i dotn know what you mean by heavily nerfing , but it sounds like after your patch you cant even haul a i hub anymore

The police horse is the only animal in the world that haz his male genitals on his back
Dave Stark
#137 - 2013-08-31 12:12:13 UTC
Lugalbandak wrote:
Wy would de base cargohold heavily nerfed?


because fitting a single cargo expander would allow freighters to move packaged capitals in to high sec, which is an issue easily avoided by not letting freighters fit cargo modules.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#138 - 2013-08-31 12:13:45 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
As I said in my first post arguing against ganking freighters when the overriding principle supporting it is based on a refusal to acknowledge its misplaced and imbalanced position in the game gets everyone nowhere.
In what way is it misplaced or imbalanced?

Maybe this “refusal to acknowledge” this position is because the position has never actually been properly articulated or proven… hmm?

The principle of the EvE system is that high sec is relatively safe, low sec is unsafe and null is very unsafe.

Being able to suicide a capital ship with a few cheap dessies repeatedly in High goes against that principle, devalues and imbalances the ship involved and is socially bad for EvE.

I enjoy inflicting loss and harm on others in EvE however suiciding clearly crosses a line from gameplay to gaming the game. The ability to remove months of a persons effort while putting in none yourself is bad for EvE imo.

Its clearly imbalanced.

I know what you'll try to come back with, not interested really.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#139 - 2013-08-31 12:14:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Lugalbandak wrote:

Wy would de base cargohold heavily nerfed? its freighter , it hauls large stuff. orca is something different.

I agree with ziona , you used to have bs fleets , and you make it sound ALL the ppl gonna fit cargo expanders , but thats a lie .

Like she said you biased and you dont want ccp nerf your incom wich i can understand , but after shuttle to have ships that cannot be fitted is plain stupid

edit: i dotn know what you mean by heavily nerfing , but it sounds like after your patch you cant even haul a i hub anymore

Every other ship in the game sacrifices one thing for another, why would a freighter with a tank be any different.

Example A T1 hauler vs a blockade runner, one has the ability to fit a nominal tank at the expense of a large(ish) cargo capacity, the other comes with a decent tank and speed as standard, and also loses out on cargo capacity.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Lugalbandak
Doomheim
#140 - 2013-08-31 12:17:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugalbandak
Dave Stark wrote:
Lugalbandak wrote:
Wy would de base cargohold heavily nerfed?


because fitting a single cargo expander would allow freighters to move packaged capitals in to high sec, which is an issue easily avoided by not letting freighters fit cargo modules.


well then tey can make it easy , all the mods you fit , except the ******* damn cargo expanders. thats was not hard was it?

edit: BATTLE CHARON WHOEIIIIII

The police horse is the only animal in the world that haz his male genitals on his back