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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Adapt Freighter and Jump Freighter

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Dave Stark
#81 - 2013-08-31 10:28:50 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Why do we need to adjust freighters? Nobody has actually answered this question yet.


Because ganking them is too cost effective.

If I understand correctly your counter argument is that it shouldn't be made less cost effective because it will still be profitable? Doesn't make much sense.


bring enough noobships and ganking anything costs you 0.

just because various groups can muster the number of pilots required to a larger number of lower dps ships doesn't mean freighters need to be changed.

actually my counter argument was simply asking you what it was that you're trying to fix, since nothing is broken and in need of a fix.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#82 - 2013-08-31 10:30:40 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Why do we need to adjust freighters? Nobody has actually answered this question yet.


Because ganking them is too cost effective.

If I understand correctly your counter argument is that it shouldn't be made less cost effective because it will still be profitable? Doesn't make much sense.


bring enough noobships and ganking anything costs you 0.

just because various groups can muster the number of pilots required to a larger number of lower dps ships doesn't mean freighters need to be changed.

actually my counter argument was simply asking you what it was that you're trying to fix, since nothing is broken and in need of a fix.

There is something broken, but most humans are too dumb to be fixed.
Dave Stark
#83 - 2013-08-31 10:31:01 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Because the downside of ganking in high sec is supposed to be the cost?


then perhaps you should stop limiting cost to isk and wallet balance and look at the whole picture.
Dave Stark
#84 - 2013-08-31 10:31:32 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
There is something broken, but most humans are too dumb to be fixed.

o/ hey sol.

Can't fix stupid!
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#85 - 2013-08-31 10:33:00 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
There is something broken, but most humans are too dumb to be fixed.

o/ hey sol.

Can't fix stupid!

Not even God can patch stupid.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#86 - 2013-08-31 10:33:42 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Explain why isk-tanking is a good idea? If freighters were to get this, why not every other ship in the game?


Because the downside of ganking in high sec is supposed to be the cost? Can you name another ship that has alt corporations dedicated to ganking one indiscriminately every ~20 minutes?




Yea, because if you are referring to Miniluv...they are well known as a subsection of Goons. Try again.

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#87 - 2013-08-31 10:34:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
Mallak Azaria wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Explain why isk-tanking is a good idea? If freighters were to get this, why not every other ship in the game?


Because the downside of ganking in high sec is supposed to be the cost? Can you name another ship that has alt corporations dedicated to ganking one indiscriminately every ~20 minutes?


Can you name an alt corporation that actually does this, because I don't know of any.


I'll take the absence of a reply as a no.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Dave Stark
#88 - 2013-08-31 10:35:56 UTC
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Explain why isk-tanking is a good idea? If freighters were to get this, why not every other ship in the game?


Because the downside of ganking in high sec is supposed to be the cost? Can you name another ship that has alt corporations dedicated to ganking one indiscriminately every ~20 minutes?




Yea, because if you are referring to Miniluv...they are well known as a subsection of Goons. Try again.


Actually Miniluv is open to the whole CFC last I checked.
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#89 - 2013-08-31 10:37:55 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Explain why isk-tanking is a good idea? If freighters were to get this, why not every other ship in the game?


Because the downside of ganking in high sec is supposed to be the cost? Can you name another ship that has alt corporations dedicated to ganking one indiscriminately every ~20 minutes?




Yea, because if you are referring to Miniluv...they are well known as a subsection of Goons. Try again.


Actually Miniluv is open to the whole CFC last I checked.


Yea, I think you are correct on that one. Haven't flown with them since the last Tribute War.

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#90 - 2013-08-31 10:38:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
Dave Stark wrote:
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Explain why isk-tanking is a good idea? If freighters were to get this, why not every other ship in the game?


Because the downside of ganking in high sec is supposed to be the cost? Can you name another ship that has alt corporations dedicated to ganking one indiscriminately every ~20 minutes?




Yea, because if you are referring to Miniluv...they are well known as a subsection of Goons. Try again.


Actually Miniluv is open to the whole CFC last I checked.


Except for Li3 & FCON because their leadership won't allow their members to do fun things (despite the former going & recruiting a bunch of lowsec pirating corps earlier this year). We should reset them.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#91 - 2013-08-31 10:40:00 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Explain why isk-tanking is a good idea? If freighters were to get this, why not every other ship in the game?


Because the downside of ganking in high sec is supposed to be the cost? Can you name another ship that has alt corporations dedicated to ganking one indiscriminately every ~20 minutes?




Yea, because if you are referring to Miniluv...they are well known as a subsection of Goons. Try again.


Actually Miniluv is open to the whole CFC last I checked.


Except for Li3 & FCON because their leadership are stupid. We should reset them.


Hey......more space to rent Big smile

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#92 - 2013-08-31 10:44:54 UTC
Still waiting for an answer from Infinity Ziona on how likely a naval anti piracy operation being close to a ship threatened by pirates is, in an area that's 67% of the size of Europe.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#93 - 2013-08-31 10:45:32 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
bring enough noobships and ganking anything costs you 0.


I stipulated with a reasonable number of people; I also assumed you understood profit/person is the relevant figure.

Quote:
just because various groups can muster the number of pilots required to a larger number of lower dps ships doesn't mean freighters need to be changed.


Is getting 30 people to warp and hit F1 supposed to be an impressive feat?

Quote:
actually my counter argument was simply asking you what it was that you're trying to fix, since nothing is broken and in need of a fix.


How much do you think a freighter should carry? I've seen a lot of people say ~2b.

That works out to ~130m/hr/person for high sec pvp with low investment(both sp and ISK) and low/no risk.

Perhaps you'd like to argue that the activity is deserving of 130m/hr?
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#94 - 2013-08-31 10:48:26 UTC
S Byerley wrote:


How much do you think a freighter should carry? I've seen a lot of people say ~2b.

That works out to ~130m/hr/person for high sec pvp with low investment(both sp and ISK) and low/no risk.

Perhaps you'd like to argue that the activity is deserving of 130m/hr?


There is risk. Loss of security status. Lose enough of it and you are barred from high sec.

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
Dave Stark
#95 - 2013-08-31 10:49:12 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Perhaps you'd like to argue that the activity is deserving of 130m/hr?

Considering other activities make more isk/hour for less cost. Perhaps you'd like to argue why it isn't?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#96 - 2013-08-31 10:50:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
S Byerley wrote:

How much do you think a freighter should carry? I've seen a lot of people say ~2b.

That works out to ~130m/hr/person for high sec pvp with low investment(both sp and ISK) and low/no risk.

Perhaps you'd like to argue that the activity is deserving of 130m/hr?

There's a 50/50 risk of the loot fairy saying "screw you pirate scum", taking costs, and the chance of the loot fairy being nasty into account, the income is at best 65 million per person per hour, the same as blitzing level 4 missions which carry a far smaller risk.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#97 - 2013-08-31 10:52:56 UTC
Fact is, he can't argue. It is not the problem of CCP, that you do not have the corp support or the option to multibox a fleet to convoy his goods.

MULTIPLAYER GAME
MULTIPLAYER GAME
MULTIPLAYER GAME

Start repeating it as a mantra....you'll get there.....eventually.

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#98 - 2013-08-31 10:54:04 UTC
Lucy Hastmena wrote:
The Price of a Rhea for example is around 6.5 Billions and has around 300k EHP with Jump Freighter Skill Level 5.
17 Brutix kill this Ship without any risk worth around 1 Billion.
Yes? And? Cost is not a balancing factor, and 17 > 1. So what's the problem?

Quote:
Even 25 Catalysts can destroy a Jump freighter in 0.5 Systems (around 560 DPS for 25 Seconds -> 14k+ Dmg *25 = 350k Dmg).
The Price of one Catalyst is around 12 mio full fittet (t2 with dmg rigs).
Yes? And? Cost is still not a balancing factor, and 25 > 1, so this is exactly how it should be.

Quote:
Please give the freighter and Jump Freighter Pilots a chance to survive in High Sec.
This is already the case. The best way of surviving is to ensure that it's too costly for the gankers to attack you.

Quote:
They should still be killable by suizid gankers, but it must be in a way that the costs to gank these Ships must be the same than the costs of the ganked ship itself.
No, they absolutely must not. The last time CCP tried to balance according to cost, we got Titans — a ship that causes balance problems to this day. They have since learned the single truth about ship balancing: cost is not a balancing factor, and requiring equal cost for a kill is as idiotic an idea as they come because it means that bigger is always better; that small ships have no reason to exist; and that there is no way for the little guy to ever beat the big guy. It only ever creates horrible gameplay without any semblance of balance.

You can use 0 ISK worth of ships to destroy any other ship in the game. This is as it should be.
Dave Stark
#99 - 2013-08-31 10:54:41 UTC
I'm still trying to figure out why it's an issue at all; if you're worried about being shot pay the laughably low price that RF or push ask and get them to take the risk; and should they fumble you did set your collateral properly right?

actually, i don't think i've ever seen a red frog or push pilot make a thread about freighter ganking. fancy that.
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#100 - 2013-08-31 10:57:20 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
I'm still trying to figure out why it's an issue at all; if you're worried about being shot pay the laughably low price that RF or push ask and get them to take the risk; and should they fumble you did set your collateral properly right?

actually, i don't think i've ever seen a red frog or push pilot make a thread about freighter ganking. fancy that.


Because they actually know what they are doing? Lmfao.

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.