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Adapt Freighter and Jump Freighter

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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#881 - 2013-09-03 01:24:56 UTC
Mag's wrote:
It's like watching a Moth continually hitting a light bulb, he simply can't help himself.

Oh and our house hold has stopped playing chess, we deplore the whole regicide angle of that game. Oh the humanity.

If you think he's amusing wait until Infinity Ziona starts posting again EvilLol

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#882 - 2013-09-03 01:50:43 UTC  |  Edited by: S Byerley
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Mag's wrote:
It's like watching a Moth continually hitting a light bulb, he simply can't help himself.

Oh and our house hold has stopped playing chess, we deplore the whole regicide angle of that game. Oh the humanity.

If you think he's amusing wait until Infinity Ziona starts posting again EvilLol


That tendency to do the exact thing you're ridiculing comes back to the self-awareness we talked about earlier.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#883 - 2013-09-03 01:55:04 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Mag's wrote:
It's like watching a Moth continually hitting a light bulb, he simply can't help himself.

Oh and our house hold has stopped playing chess, we deplore the whole regicide angle of that game. Oh the humanity.

If you think he's amusing wait until Infinity Ziona starts posting again EvilLol


That tendency to do the exact same thing you're ridiculing comes back to the self-awareness we talked about earlier.

The differences between you and I? I actually have a clue, and I'm quite capable of self ridicule, I do it well.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#884 - 2013-09-03 02:15:59 UTC  |  Edited by: S Byerley
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
The differences between you and I? I actually have a clue, and I'm quite capable of self ridicule, I do it well.


There's really no way to interpret it as self-degradation (which is perfectly fine btw) rather than hypocrisy. I suppose it could fit into an overarching role-play of a hypocrite, but that's outside my frame of reference.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#885 - 2013-09-03 10:19:29 UTC
S Bro why did you ignore 99% of the points I made in an earlier post? The (possibly inaccurate) stat about ganking wasn't really relevant to the rest of what I said, so why did you ignore everything else in the post?

Was it because you couldn't refute any of the points?

Anyway, I will admit that statement was inaccurate - CCP have said mining barge suicide ganks are at an all time low, not suicide ganks in general or specifically freighter ganks. However, with only 40 happening per month (amongst half a million freighter runs happening) it is safe to say that freighter ganking is an extremely uncommon event
Mag's
Azn Empire
#886 - 2013-09-03 10:51:46 UTC
Which leads to the question. If it's so easy and such a money spinner, why aren't more doing it?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#887 - 2013-09-03 13:19:04 UTC
not this again...

just go through low sec. no suicide gankers in low sec Blink

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Biglenny
Biglenny Corporation
#888 - 2013-09-03 13:44:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Biglenny
Just give me 1 Mid slot and 1 low slot and enough PG and CPU to fit a DC2 and a 100mn MWD. Freighters would be safe from these skill less newb gankers. Ganking in high sec is for those to afraid to come to low and fight. Generally there coward Null bears who hide in there SOV ISK faucets and come to high to blow up there epeens by ganking helpless freighter pilots.

See Goons for more information...
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#889 - 2013-09-03 14:04:44 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Cost is a product of balance, not a factor in it.


If one ships requires vastly more material of the same type than another, one might rightly conclude that the price is not entirely driven by balance?



Price is driven by cost. Balance is a meta for industry folks when assigning a price to the goods they crafted based on the cost of their own pocket. Minerals I mine are free and all that.

Cost of a ship has nothing to do with it's performance since the market doesn't care. The market cares how many people want the ship and how many want what volume.... that determines price.

Not many industrials will sell a product for less than what it cost them to make.

A specific ship can be in demand for a variety of reasons, and regardless of that reason the demand can determine a better price, but not a better cost as it will still cost the same to create that ship.

The ability to gank a freighter, would create a higher demand for thaty ship, but just because it is in a higher demand now, doesn't mean that it changes the amount of isk it takes to create one(cost). Only how much you can sell it for(profit).

That profit margin does not determine how well the ship will perform.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Mycool Jahksn
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#890 - 2013-09-03 14:05:19 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Mycool Jahksn wrote:


Are you saying you've never flown a freighter on autopilot ever?

If yes, do you always, at all times keep a ship one system ahead so you can web your freighter into warp?

I think not. People who lose their freighters are not necessarily fools, some are just unlucky.


I have never flown my freighter AFK nor have I ever stuffed ten billion into its hold.


So what? You dont need to fly your freighter afk.

You dont need to fly it filled with goods.

You fail to understand that alot of people lose empty freighters to people who just want to see tears in local.

You could have been one of those victims, so stop trash talking people who lost theirs u fool.

My interests include but are not limited to throwing rocks at bee hives.

There are more stars in the universe than all of the grains of sand on earth.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#891 - 2013-09-03 14:12:14 UTC
Biglenny wrote:
Just give me 1 Mid slot and 1 low slot and enough PG and CPU to fit a DC2 and a 100mn MWD. Freighters would be safe from these skill less newb gankers. Ganking in high sec is for those to afraid to come to low and fight. Generally there coward Null bears who hide in there SOV ISK faucets and come to high to blow up there epeens by ganking helpless freighter pilots.

See Goons for more information...


If they're so "skill less" and such "newbs" why do you need CCP to mechanically protect you from them? It says a lot about what you think of yourself if you're screaming that you are losing to what you claim to be terrible, useless players.

Also the garbage about lowsec is just that: garbage. It's classic "play the way I want you to play" nonsense, and ignores the fact that targets are targets no matter where they are. Highsec is not your own safe little instance, friend.

hope this helps
Elizabeth Aideron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#892 - 2013-09-03 14:27:40 UTC
Mycool Jahksn wrote:
You fail to understand that alot of people lose empty freighters to people who just want to see tears in local.


[citation needed]
Biglenny
Biglenny Corporation
#893 - 2013-09-03 14:34:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Biglenny
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Biglenny wrote:
Just give me 1 Mid slot and 1 low slot and enough PG and CPU to fit a DC2 and a 100mn MWD. Freighters would be safe from these skill less newb gankers. Ganking in high sec is for those to afraid to come to low and fight. Generally there coward Null bears who hide in there SOV ISK faucets and come to high to blow up there epeens by ganking helpless freighter pilots.

See Goons for more information...


If they're so "skill less" and such "newbs" why do you need CCP to mechanically protect you from them? It says a lot about what you think of yourself if you're screaming that you are losing to what you claim to be terrible, useless players.

Also the garbage about lowsec is just that: garbage. It's classic "play the way I want you to play" nonsense, and ignores the fact that targets are targets no matter where they are. Highsec is not your own safe little instance, friend.

hope this helps



Aye because it takes such skill to push a slow aligning slow warping ship around while a bunch of disposable 4 week old dessie pilots lock you up and pop you... No amount of skill can make a freighter align and warp fast enough to keep this from happening.

And last time I checked it takes so much skill to lock something that cant run away from you and push a button. Ganking is the most skilless way to gain kills in this game.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#894 - 2013-09-03 15:15:29 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Tippia wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
This might be a valid differentiating factor if T1 ships weren't all built out of, more or less, the same material; and if availability and yield weren't also determined by CCP.
The materials required for different ships depend to a great extent on which race they belong to, and what ores and minerals are associated with their home regions.

Quote:
If you like: is material cost a factor in balance?
No.

In the context of this thread, regards to freighter ganking, yes it is. It directly relates to ganking ability, frequency and profitability. If catalysts cost 100 million each because material costs to build them was increased there would not be catalysts ganking.

Since the next best thing, cruisers cost 5 x more (due to material costs) ganking freighters overall would be more expensive and overall ganks on freighters would likely decrease.



The frequency of which catalysts were used would decrease sure... but not necessarily the act of ganking.

Remember, other ships did used to be used to perform the same duty as the almighty catalyst is used now.

It's just a fine tuning to make MORE money at it. The same 15bil loot pinata would be ganked by 15 brutix in the same fashion as 30 catalysts were used.

The 15bil freighter is what makes it attractive to be ganked, not the cost of the 15 brutix versus 30 cats.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#895 - 2013-09-03 15:18:39 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Since the next best thing, cruisers cost 5 x more (due to material costs) ganking freighters overall would be more expensive and overall ganks on freighters would likely decrease.

Only temporarily until people train up to fly a Brutix or Talos.

Which is why freighters need a HP buff or tank fitting ability. To drive up the cost of ganking to a point it was originally at, profitable to gank a piñata but not an empty freighter or just carrying a typical cargo.



That's determined by the cargo hold of the freighter... perhaps a cargo hold nerf is where you should be aiming at. Limit the capacity, help limit the value, help limit the # of ganks.

Doesn't matter if it takes me a fleet of 30 cats, 15 brutix or 5 oracles or 5 battleships...

you still have that 15bil in your hold, and I still want it. Even if I only make 1.3bil instead of 1.5mil.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#896 - 2013-09-03 15:37:10 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
You might want to add sarcasm tags Domanique, S Byerley will take your post as proof that freighters die every 20 minutes, regardless of the facts.


Oh look

Your list of things to learn from this thread now consists of

  • the meaning of the word "average"
  • what a strawman argument is


I said that, while working, it's common to gank a freighter every 20 minutes on average. You're interpreting my position to mean that a freighter dies every 20 minutes.

If your definition of straw man varies from the above, perhaps you can grace me with a description.


if it's common to gank a freighter every 20 mins, that means it's common for a freighter to die every 20 mins.

i don't think you understand how words work.



Context, I think, is a valuable word here in this debate.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#897 - 2013-09-03 15:45:32 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
S Byerley wrote:


I said that, while working, it's common to gank a freighter every 20 minutes on average. You're interpreting my position to mean that a freighter dies every 20 minutes.

If your definition of straw man varies from the above, perhaps you can grace me with a description.


So why is it that only 30 to 40 get killed a month?



Are you counting the total number destroyed or just the ones you yourself kill? I've seen war reports with higher numbers (and yes, plenty of wardecs are enabled simply to destroy freighters).

I get this thread is based on ganks with no wardecs, flags, etc... but it looks like facts are also getting twisted around to suit theories so it may be worth bringing that up.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Elizabeth Aideron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#898 - 2013-09-03 15:48:22 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
S Byerley wrote:


I said that, while working, it's common to gank a freighter every 20 minutes on average. You're interpreting my position to mean that a freighter dies every 20 minutes.

If your definition of straw man varies from the above, perhaps you can grace me with a description.


So why is it that only 30 to 40 get killed a month?



Are you counting the total number destroyed or just the ones you yourself kill? I've seen war reports with higher numbers (and yes, plenty of wardecs are enabled simply to destroy freighters).

I get this thread is based on ganks with no wardecs, flags, etc... but it looks like facts are also getting twisted around to suit theories so it may be worth bringing that up.


Because wardecs are irrelevant to the discussion. You could bake a DCII into the hull and they would still trivially die to a legal target.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#899 - 2013-09-03 16:02:23 UTC
Mycool Jahksn wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Mycool Jahksn wrote:


Are you saying you've never flown a freighter on autopilot ever?

If yes, do you always, at all times keep a ship one system ahead so you can web your freighter into warp?

I think not. People who lose their freighters are not necessarily fools, some are just unlucky.


I have never flown my freighter AFK nor have I ever stuffed ten billion into its hold.


So what? You dont need to fly your freighter afk.

You dont need to fly it filled with goods.

You fail to understand that alot of people lose empty freighters to people who just want to see tears in local.

You could have been one of those victims, so stop trash talking people who lost theirs u fool.


Nobody ganks freighters just for lulz. Its done for profit.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#900 - 2013-09-03 16:05:19 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
S Byerley wrote:


I said that, while working, it's common to gank a freighter every 20 minutes on average. You're interpreting my position to mean that a freighter dies every 20 minutes.

If your definition of straw man varies from the above, perhaps you can grace me with a description.


So why is it that only 30 to 40 get killed a month?



Are you counting the total number destroyed or just the ones you yourself kill? I've seen war reports with higher numbers (and yes, plenty of wardecs are enabled simply to destroy freighters).

I get this thread is based on ganks with no wardecs, flags, etc... but it looks like facts are also getting twisted around to suit theories so it may be worth bringing that up.


Wardecs are not suicide ganks and thus dont count as suicide ganks