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Adapt Freighter and Jump Freighter

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KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#61 - 2013-08-31 10:01:26 UTC
As if it hasn't been driven home already in this thread....I will go ahead an reiterate.

EVE Online is what is known as a massive multiplayer online game. The point of playing a game such as this is not to play it alone, on autopilot, while you are eating your Cheerios and wondering if you will find meaning beyond posting a thread that has been bashed into the ground seven hundred million times.

That being said, EVE is unique in that the developers created a rule set in which to let others ruin your day.

So, my suggestion?

Get a pilot to fly logistics with you and get a pilot to fly a long range webber such as the Rapier. Slingshot-align your jumps with the incredible power of 60km webs, and if you have a gank squad attack you, you rep up with the logi. If you are that paranoid, get a second logi.

Point is, less than three days ago, I rescued a friend's freighter from a neighboring system of Rahadalon, after it was left there as a troll during a "corp break-up." We literally used a Scythe for "just-in-case" logistics, a tankless Rifter with 3 webs, and a 6k km/s Stilleto. We each sat on a gate scouting, mashing d-scan, and waiting for each slingshot jump. It got out safe and sound.

Now tell me, if we can do that, with minimal tools, would you care to explain to me why you cannot pilot a freighter through high-sec? I will be awaiting your response, OP.

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#62 - 2013-08-31 10:02:22 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Actually I didn't say You were stupid. I wouldn't call anyone stupid unless I personally knew them to be stupid. I said you're comparing piracy in RL to suicide ganking in EvE was stupid.

Fair enough my apologies, I've edited the original post. Now please explain how my comparison of real life piracy to ingame piracy, which incidentally includes suicide ganking, was stupid.

Because in RL if a freighter sees a bunch of small boats assembling they call one of the navy fleets patrolling nearby and if those small boats don't have a good reason or are armed they get warned and then wtfpwned. In EvE the Navy just sits there and even let's the pirates scoop the loot. Completely different.


More proof that highsec people don't really know how the game actually works.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#63 - 2013-08-31 10:02:28 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Because in RL if a freighter sees a bunch of small boats assembling they call one of the navy fleets patrolling nearby and if those small boats don't have a good reason or are armed they get warned and then wtfpwned. In EvE the Navy just sits there and even let's the pirates scoop the loot. Completely different.

Freighter pilots are capable of calling the navy for support as long as it they don't expect support from an NPC faction navy, just like RL.

Oh god.
Dave Stark
#64 - 2013-08-31 10:03:19 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Numbers very relevant; 15 brutix's, for example, stops being profitable in most cases.


No it isn't.

people will still gank freighters, they will just use different ships if destroyers get nerfed in to the ground.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#65 - 2013-08-31 10:04:30 UTC
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
Now tell me, if we can do that, with minimal tools, would you care to explain to me why you cannot pilot a freighter through high-sec? I will be awaiting your response, OP.


Good luck. I'm still waiting on a response to my question which I've asked people several times over the past year. No one has ever answered it.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#66 - 2013-08-31 10:05:00 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
S Byerley wrote:

The issue is that a 1.5m ship can do a stupid amount of dps, tipping the cost equation.

How does the name Destroyer not give you a clue as to the purpose of the ship? It's main design criteria is that it can do an excessive amount of DPS for the size and price of the platform, working as intended.


I was under the impression they were originally supposed to be frigate killers -

Eve wrote:
Ideally suited for both skirmish warfare and fleet support, the Catalyst is touted as one of the best anti-frigate platforms out there. Faced with its top-of-the-line tracking equipment, not many can argue.


So you think they should only be allowed to kill frigates? They're great for killing frigates, but they're also great for killing other things too.


Killing frigates doesn't necessarily equate to insane dps/isk is all.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2013-08-31 10:07:52 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Because in RL if a freighter sees a bunch of small boats assembling they call one of the navy fleets patrolling nearby and if those small boats don't have a good reason or are armed they get warned and then wtfpwned. In EvE the Navy just sits there and even let's the pirates scoop the loot. Completely different.

Freighter pilots are capable of calling the navy for support as long as it they don't expect support from an NPC faction navy, just like RL.

That's true however it then becomes more profitable to use another ship solo making the freighter useless. High sec is supposed to be relatively safe not more dangerous then null which it is for freighters.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#68 - 2013-08-31 10:08:45 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
Now tell me, if we can do that, with minimal tools, would you care to explain to me why you cannot pilot a freighter through high-sec? I will be awaiting your response, OP.


Good luck. I'm still waiting on a response to my question which I've asked people several times over the past year. No one has ever answered it.


It is ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, I have had my share of being randomly ganked, especially in my first few months.

It is easy...

Miners: Align to station and use d-scan. Sit at the damn computer.

Truckers: Use webbing and logistics, and DO NOT AUTOPILOT. Oh, and sit at your damn computer.

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#69 - 2013-08-31 10:10:00 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Numbers very relevant; 15 brutix's, for example, stops being profitable in most cases.


No it isn't.

people will still gank freighters, they will just use different ships if destroyers get nerfed in to the ground.


Then surely you have no complaints if Freighters/ect. are adjusted such that it takes ~900m to gank them with a reasonable number of people?
Dave Stark
#70 - 2013-08-31 10:11:44 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Numbers very relevant; 15 brutix's, for example, stops being profitable in most cases.


No it isn't.

people will still gank freighters, they will just use different ships if destroyers get nerfed in to the ground.


Then surely you have no complaints if Freighters/ect. are adjusted such that it takes ~900m to gank them with a reasonable number of people?


Why do we need to adjust freighters? Nobody has actually answered this question yet.
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#71 - 2013-08-31 10:13:29 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Numbers very relevant; 15 brutix's, for example, stops being profitable in most cases.


No it isn't.

people will still gank freighters, they will just use different ships if destroyers get nerfed in to the ground.


Then surely you have no complaints if Freighters/ect. are adjusted such that it takes ~900m to gank them with a reasonable number of people?


Why do we need to adjust freighters? Nobody has actually answered this question yet.


We don't. The tear factories need to learn how to pilot them.

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
Dave Stark
#72 - 2013-08-31 10:14:45 UTC
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
We don't.


In that case then, I guess I would be upset if CCP wasted their time changing things that don't need changing instead of continuing with balancing ships that do actually need rebalancing.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#73 - 2013-08-31 10:18:15 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Numbers very relevant; 15 brutix's, for example, stops being profitable in most cases.


No it isn't.

people will still gank freighters, they will just use different ships if destroyers get nerfed in to the ground.


Then surely you have no complaints if Freighters/ect. are adjusted such that it takes ~900m to gank them with a reasonable number of people?


Explain why isk-tanking is a good idea? If freighters were to get this, why not every other ship in the game?

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#74 - 2013-08-31 10:18:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Because in RL if a freighter sees a bunch of small boats assembling they call one of the navy fleets patrolling nearby and if those small boats don't have a good reason or are armed they get warned and then wtfpwned. In EvE the Navy just sits there and even let's the pirates scoop the loot. Completely different.
Did you somehow miss this?
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

Yes there are military ships in the area, they're not particularly successful at intercepting pirates or preventing hijacks though, because they can't be everywhere at once.
The naval fleets are limited in size, current anti piracy operations consist of between 4 and 15 ships, dependant on other operational requirements such as intercepts in the Middle East, with 2 or 3 patrol aircraft. They're also bound by rules of engagement, they can't preemptively strike, there has to be a real threat to shipping or shots fired.

Given that they cover an area of around 2 million square nautical miles what is the likelihood of them being close by? (source)

Once again, please enlighten us as to how using real life piracy as a comparison to piracy in Eve, which includes suicide ganking, is stupid.

Edit - 2 million square nautical miles is 2,648,586 square miles, 67% of the size of Europe (3,930,000 square miles).

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#75 - 2013-08-31 10:19:37 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
We don't.


In that case then, I guess I would be upset if CCP wasted their time changing things that don't need changing instead of continuing with balancing ships that do actually need rebalancing.


Balancing ships that need it? Hell, not only that...how about a updated drone UI? I could name a thousand things, and I have just now entered my third year. But no...we must cater to those who buy expensive things and then do not know how to use them. Instead, they run to GD crying, when the reality is they shouldn't have undocked it if they cannot get behind a game called Everyone vs. Everyone.

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#76 - 2013-08-31 10:20:13 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Why do we need to adjust freighters? Nobody has actually answered this question yet.


Because ganking them is too cost effective.

If I understand correctly your counter argument is that it shouldn't be made less cost effective because it will still be profitable? Doesn't make much sense.
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#77 - 2013-08-31 10:22:59 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Explain why isk-tanking is a good idea? If freighters were to get this, why not every other ship in the game?


Because the downside of ganking in high sec is supposed to be the cost? Can you name another ship that has alt corporations dedicated to ganking one indiscriminately every ~20 minutes?
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#78 - 2013-08-31 10:24:03 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Why do we need to adjust freighters? Nobody has actually answered this question yet.


Because ganking them is too cost effective.

If I understand correctly your counter argument is that it shouldn't be made less cost effective because it will still be profitable? Doesn't make much sense.


Don't make yourself profitable to gank. Why shouldn't people be allowed to blow others up for profit?

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#79 - 2013-08-31 10:24:57 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Why do we need to adjust freighters? Nobody has actually answered this question yet.


Because ganking them is too cost effective.

If I understand correctly your counter argument is that it shouldn't be made less cost effective because it will still be profitable? Doesn't make much sense.


The cost effectiveness is determined by you, the pilot who chooses to undock and carry whatever you feel the need to carry, without proper support, inviting said gank. By undocking, you are consenting to non-consensual PvP. And that is not going to change anytime soon.

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#80 - 2013-08-31 10:25:51 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Explain why isk-tanking is a good idea? If freighters were to get this, why not every other ship in the game?


Because the downside of ganking in high sec is supposed to be the cost? Can you name another ship that has alt corporations dedicated to ganking one indiscriminately every ~20 minutes?


Can you name an alt corporation that actually does this, because I don't know of any.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.