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Adapt Freighter and Jump Freighter

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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#641 - 2013-09-01 12:37:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
So Infinity Ziona, are you going to enlighten us as to how a Catalyst fitted with purely T1 modules isn't a T1 fitted Catalyst?
Or are you going to avoid it, because once again you have proven yourself to be a completely clueless numpty?

QuestionEnquiring minds want to knowQuestion

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#642 - 2013-09-01 12:40:49 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
So Infinity Ziona, are you going to enlighten us as to how a Catalyst fitted with purely T1 modules isn't a T1 fitted Catalyst?
Or are you going to avoid it, because once again you have proven yourself to be a completely clueless numpty?

QuestionEnquiring minds want to knowQuestion

Magnetic Field Stabilizer I = pure T1, no meta. And what they were using on the Charon.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#643 - 2013-09-01 12:42:09 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
If cost was a balancing factor then we would have isk tanking. With isk tanking the richest people in the game would be able to pack the most expensive mods on to their ships & know that the poorer people would never be able to blow them up. This would destroy the balance of the game & is a terrible idea despite the preaching of the likes of people like Ripard Teg.

I'm talking purely in relation to ganking freighters. You can't ISK Tank a freighter because it has NO SLOTS.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#644 - 2013-09-01 12:42:13 UTC
Also I want to see an answer to this question that no anti-freighter ganking zealot has answered yet.

Mallak Azaria wrote:
If T1 cats being so effective encourages the ganking of freighters & is the cash cow that you seem to believe it is, then why aren't more people doing it?

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#645 - 2013-09-01 12:43:50 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
If cost was a balancing factor then we would have isk tanking. With isk tanking the richest people in the game would be able to pack the most expensive mods on to their ships & know that the poorer people would never be able to blow them up. This would destroy the balance of the game & is a terrible idea despite the preaching of the likes of people like Ripard Teg.

I'm talking purely in relation to ganking freighters. You can't ISK Tank a freighter because it has NO SLOTS.


A freighter costs over a billion isk. By your logic, it should take over a billion isk to kill it. This is why cost is not a balancing factor in game design.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Dave Stark
#646 - 2013-09-01 12:44:04 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
If cost was a balancing factor then we would have isk tanking. With isk tanking the richest people in the game would be able to pack the most expensive mods on to their ships & know that the poorer people would never be able to blow them up. This would destroy the balance of the game & is a terrible idea despite the preaching of the likes of people like Ripard Teg.

I'm talking purely in relation to ganking freighters. You can't ISK Tank a freighter because it has NO SLOTS.


since when was isk a module that required a slot?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#647 - 2013-09-01 12:45:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
So Infinity Ziona, are you going to enlighten us as to how a Catalyst fitted with purely T1 modules isn't a T1 fitted Catalyst?
Or are you going to avoid it, because once again you have proven yourself to be a completely clueless numpty?

QuestionEnquiring minds want to knowQuestion

Magnetic Field Stabilizer I = pure T1, no meta. And what they were using on the Charon.


Ok, now read my post again
I wrote:

With my gank alts skills (which aren't all V) 354.5 DPS before overheat 407.6 with overheat. Learn to gank, and learn to fit. Even replacing the meta 2 Magstabs with meta 0's it still pushes around 360 DPS overheated.

As per my own post, the part which you skipped, because it didn't suit your argument is quoted above, with meta 0 magstabs the DPS is still around 360 with overheat, without implants. Overheating is used by most suicide gankers.

FYI meta 0 to meta 4 is T1, faction ammo is also T1 (if it wasn't, you couldn't use it in T1 guns) before you even start on that.

edit -

  • Magnetic Field Stabilizer I (meta 0) 387 DPS overheated
  • Gauss Field Balancer (meta 0) 377 DPS overheated
  • Insulated Stabilizer Array (meta 0) 364 DPS overheated
  • Linear Flux Stabilizer (meta 0) 371 DPS overheated
  • Basic Magnetic Field Stabilizer (meta 0) 358 DPS overheated << the only one that drops below 360.
  • Magnetic Vortex Stabilizer (meta 0) 384 DPS overheated

Unless EveHQ is lying to me, all of the above are meta 0 items.

NB These figures are with my characters skills, which are NOT all at level V.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Dave Stark
#648 - 2013-09-01 12:45:14 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
If cost was a balancing factor then we would have isk tanking. With isk tanking the richest people in the game would be able to pack the most expensive mods on to their ships & know that the poorer people would never be able to blow them up. This would destroy the balance of the game & is a terrible idea despite the preaching of the likes of people like Ripard Teg.

I'm talking purely in relation to ganking freighters. You can't ISK Tank a freighter because it has NO SLOTS.


A freighter costs over a billion isk. By your logic, it should take over a billion isk to kill it. This is why cost is not a balancing factor in game design.


if you're using vindicators then it will cost over 1bn isk to gank it, so i guess it's balanced?
Dave Stark
#649 - 2013-09-01 12:47:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
So Infinity Ziona, are you going to enlighten us as to how a Catalyst fitted with purely T1 modules isn't a T1 fitted Catalyst?
Or are you going to avoid it, because once again you have proven yourself to be a completely clueless numpty?

QuestionEnquiring minds want to knowQuestion

Magnetic Field Stabilizer I = pure T1, no meta. And what they were using on the Charon.


Ok, now read my post again, with meta 0 magstabs the DPS is still > 360 with overheat, without implants. Overheating is used by most suicide gankers.

FYI meta 0 to meta 4 is T1, faction ammo is also T1 (if it wasn't, you couldn't use it in T1 guns) before you even start on that.


meta 0 gets over 400 dps, easily. see?

also, quick maths that should be somewhat accurate.

400 dps, 20 second concord response time. 8k damage.
200k ehp on an obelisk.

200/8 = 25 catalysts with 0 margin of error.

it takes 25 players to kill a freighter. that's absurd and freighter ehp needs to be drastically reduced.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#650 - 2013-09-01 12:49:43 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
If cost was a balancing factor then we would have isk tanking. With isk tanking the richest people in the game would be able to pack the most expensive mods on to their ships & know that the poorer people would never be able to blow them up. This would destroy the balance of the game & is a terrible idea despite the preaching of the likes of people like Ripard Teg.

I'm talking purely in relation to ganking freighters. You can't ISK Tank a freighter because it has NO SLOTS.


A freighter costs over a billion isk. By your logic, it should take over a billion isk to kill it. This is why cost is not a balancing factor in game design.

By CCP's logic, when they were released it took about a billion isk to gank one. So I guess the answer to that is yes. That's how they were balanced when they were released. With dps creep that has dropped from about a billion to about 70 million.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Dave Stark
#651 - 2013-09-01 12:53:32 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
By CCP's logic, when they were released it took about a billion isk to gank one. So I guess the answer to that is yes. That's how they were balanced when they were released. With dps creep that has dropped from about a billion to about 70 million.

i think you mistake "it took 1bn isk worth of ships" with "it cost 1bn isk worth of ships"
Dave Stark
#652 - 2013-09-01 12:56:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
consider the following, if it takes 25 catalysts to gank a freighter, what if the freighter had 24 t1 logi cruisers repping it?

a shitfit t1 logi cruiser with my skills would rep ~290hp/s on it. that's basically the same as a catalyst (apparently). that just shows; if you bring as many guys as they do your freighter won't be a sitting duck!

now imagine if they were properly skilled t2 logi cruisers. you'd actually outrep the dps i'm sure.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#653 - 2013-09-01 12:59:41 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

By CCP's logic, when they were released it took about a billion isk to gank one. So I guess the answer to that is yes. That's how they were balanced when they were released. With dps creep that has dropped from about a billion to about 70 million.


When freighters came out we could gank them for free and with far fewer ships.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#654 - 2013-09-01 12:59:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
If cost was a balancing factor then we would have isk tanking. With isk tanking the richest people in the game would be able to pack the most expensive mods on to their ships & know that the poorer people would never be able to blow them up. This would destroy the balance of the game & is a terrible idea despite the preaching of the likes of people like Ripard Teg.

I'm talking purely in relation to ganking freighters. You can't ISK Tank a freighter because it has NO SLOTS.


A freighter costs over a billion isk. By your logic, it should take over a billion isk to kill it. This is why cost is not a balancing factor in game design.

By CCP's logic, when they were released it took about a billion isk to gank one. So I guess the answer to that is yes. That's how they were balanced when they were released. With dps creep that has dropped from about a billion to about 70 million.


They could still be ganked with cheap ships, people just didn't for whatever reason. It takes 14k DPS to kill a freighter in 0.5 with today's concord response times. It took even less in years gone by so you can't honestly sit there & babble on about 1b isk in battleships were the requirement to suicide gank a freighter in highsec.

If T1 cats being so effective encourages the ganking of freighters & is the cash cow that you seem to believe it is, then why aren't more people doing it?

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#655 - 2013-09-01 13:04:39 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
If cost was a balancing factor then we would have isk tanking. With isk tanking the richest people in the game would be able to pack the most expensive mods on to their ships & know that the poorer people would never be able to blow them up. This would destroy the balance of the game & is a terrible idea despite the preaching of the likes of people like Ripard Teg.

I'm talking purely in relation to ganking freighters. You can't ISK Tank a freighter because it has NO SLOTS.


A freighter costs over a billion isk. By your logic, it should take over a billion isk to kill it. This is why cost is not a balancing factor in game design.

By CCP's logic, when they were released it took about a billion isk to gank one. So I guess the answer to that is yes. That's how they were balanced when they were released. With dps creep that has dropped from about a billion to about 70 million.


They could still be ganked with cheap ships, people just didn't for whatever reason. It takes 14k DPS to kill a freighter in 0.5 with today's concord response times. It took even less in years gone by so you can't honestly sit there & babble on about 1b isk in battleships were the requirement to suicide gank a freighter in highsec.

If T1 cats being so effective encourages the ganking of freighters & is the cash cow that you seem to believe it is, then why aren't more people doing it?

No they couldn't be ganked with cheap ships profitably. It took 20+ battleships when they were released. At plat insurance of 40 million isk that's 800 million just in insurance loss. Another 200 million in the gap between cost of hull and payout. Plus fitting.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Dave Stark
#656 - 2013-09-01 13:06:30 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
It took 20+ battleships when they were released.


i honestly need a source for this.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#657 - 2013-09-01 13:08:35 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
It took 20+ battleships when they were released.


i honestly need a source for this.


But... but.. Infinity is infallible, at least in his/her own mind Roll

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

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Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#658 - 2013-09-01 13:10:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
Infinity Ziona wrote:
No they couldn't be ganked with cheap ships profitably. It took 20+ battleships when they were released. At plat insurance of 40 million isk that's 800 million just in insurance loss. Another 200 million in the gap between cost of hull and payout. Plus fitting.

It didn't. People may have done it that way which doesn't surprise me since Miniluv was the first group to refine the artform (also until about 18 months ago people were still using Battleships & stealth bombers to suicide gank Orca's, yet it wasn't a requirement to do so), but the DPS requirement to bring down a freighter certainly shows that 20+ battleships were not a requirement to kill a freighter in highsec.

If T1 cats being so effective encourages the ganking of freighters & is the cash cow that you seem to believe it is, then why aren't more people doing it?

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#659 - 2013-09-01 13:10:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
So Infinity Ziona, are you going to enlighten us as to how a Catalyst fitted with purely T1 modules isn't a T1 fitted Catalyst?
Or are you going to avoid it, because once again you have proven yourself to be a completely clueless numpty?

QuestionEnquiring minds want to knowQuestion

Magnetic Field Stabilizer I = pure T1, no meta. And what they were using on the Charon.

How come the rest of us can push around 350 to 400 DPS out of a T1 fitted Catalyst, even when we gimp the fit with meta 0 magstabs, while you can't? Is it possibly because you don't have a frigging clue?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Dave Stark
#660 - 2013-09-01 13:10:37 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
It took 20+ battleships when they were released.


i honestly need a source for this.


But... but.. Infinity is infallible, at least in his/her own mind Roll


that statement implies that battleships were doing similar dps to current catalysts... which i find very had to believe.