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Adapt Freighter and Jump Freighter

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Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#501 - 2013-08-31 22:32:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Skydell
Lyris Nairn wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
Bring logi.

But that would require active piloting and player interaction that people AFKing their loot piñatas through high sec are dreadfully afraid of or otherwise do not want to do. Just look at Gevlon "Regional Arbitrage" Goblin as an example: this fellow made his space fortune by autopiloting freighters between Amarr and Jita, and has terrible social skills.


Brought many Logi.
The freighter popped before the cycle completed. The repairs never even calculated. Or am I supposed to know 15 seconds before they fire an alpha volley so I can time the logi?
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#502 - 2013-08-31 22:32:38 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Lucy Hastmena wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
remind me again how it's unfair to freighter pilots that it requires over 15 pilots to kill 1 ship?

ok you dont get it, no problem i explain it again, also for the really slow thinking people like you.

This is not about a fight, this is about SUIZID gankers. There will be no Fight or something like that. There is even not a fault of the Freighter Pilot necessary like jumping into low sec or undocking during war. And of Course you dont need 15 Pilots, just one Player with ISBoxer will kill you and you dont have even the Chance to do anything. You cant warp away, you cant fit tank, you cant scout ( they bump you until their gank squad logged in) There is absolute nothing you can do about.

Tell this guy your story, guess he needs to know:
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=19440276

15 pilots is still 15 pilots, regardless of the number of players controlling them.

And that is exactly why CCP will never nerf ISBoxer, nor should they: 15 pilots is still 15 accounts, paying 15 subscriptions, and making the company 15 times the money of the one guy whining about getting his over-stuffed freighter killed through negligence.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#503 - 2013-08-31 22:35:55 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Lucy Hastmena wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
remind me again how it's unfair to freighter pilots that it requires over 15 pilots to kill 1 ship?

ok you dont get it, no problem i explain it again, also for the really slow thinking people like you.

This is not about a fight, this is about SUIZID gankers. There will be no Fight or something like that. There is even not a fault of the Freighter Pilot necessary like jumping into low sec or undocking during war. And of Course you dont need 15 Pilots, just one Player with ISBoxer will kill you and you dont have even the Chance to do anything. You cant warp away, you cant fit tank, you cant scout ( they bump you until their gank squad logged in) There is absolute nothing you can do about.

Tell this guy your story, guess he needs to know:
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=19440276


You can scout it, you can have a friend or alt web your freighter, & your giant cargohold with an engine strapped to it is the inherent tank. You can do many things to mitigate the risk of a successful suicide gank being performed, you just choose not to. You choose to be a victim.

Another good question for you, try to answer this one: If using ISboxer to scan a freighter, bump it, suicide gank it with 15 accounts then loot it with another freighter is so easy, why is literally no one doing this?

About the only thing I would personally trust ISBoxer to do is multibox mining, and even then only because there are very few individual player inputs required for that activity. It is difficult to get your UI set up properly to multibox anything more complex, and while doing so is clearly possible it represents an effort-to-reward threshold that I am unwilling to scale. If there is one guy doing this with fifteen accounts, then more power to him. And if it is literally just the one guy, then all the OP needs to do is watchlist his "main," bumping character, and scout for him. There are all sorts of things that the OP can do to gain intel and avoid bad situations. I agree with you entirely: he is choosing to be a victim, and expecting the game to be changed so that he can continue his same behaviour without any risk.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#504 - 2013-08-31 22:36:50 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Yeah they need to be able to fit a tank. Give them fitting abilty. Its pretty stupid an orca can be fit to have 3 times the HP of a freighter.

You'll get a lot of idiots coming into this thread saying theres no problem but they make a living off ganking freighters so theyre biased. You'll also get people who are fanboys of the latter but neither will have a reasonable or sustainable argument so likely you'll get flamed.

I don't gank nor use freighters and its clear to me that when freighters were introduced without fitting it took a sizeable battleship force to kill one. Things have changed a lot and freighters need a rethink.


If CCP gave freighters the ability to fit a tank, people would fit cargohold expanders instead. This would also mean freighters base cargohold would have to be heavily nerfed to account for that. In the end, the only viable fitting option would be to fit cargohold mods. For anything else you would just use an Orca.

They would use shield tanks of course! :haw:

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Elizabeth Aideron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#505 - 2013-08-31 22:37:20 UTC
Skydell wrote:
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:
Skydell wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Skydell wrote:



So you keep saying and yet I know better.

And you can't even provide examples where I am incorrect.


you don't and that's why it's so hilarious to see you posting such hideous errors.


Anyone joining in at this point.

- Can't remote repair a freighter. Hull tank and end of cycle repairs nullify it
- Agi stacks on a freighter make no appreciable difference, don't waste your time
- Stasis webbifiers work but the web frigate gets a countdown and can't jump so you need to hold on each gate and wait for them to come though
- Stasis Webbifiers don't work when the freighter gets bumped. It needs to spool down and re-align before it can warp and takes longer than a squad needs to pop it
- Giving a freighter rigs and a low slot could be done by making packed size of Carriers and Dreadnaughts 3X what they are now. It won't impact mechanics, it was done on several items for various reasons.


But flapjaw above says I am wrong. Feel free to test these in test server.


The original post you made said that in-corp webbing gives a suspect timer, which anyone with a passing understanding of highsec mechanics would know is a lie.


In corp, In fleet and I was given a suspect timer. Keep up the strawman arguments though. No worries, in case you haven't noticed I bait easy on the forums. I'm sure if you work really hard like a good little Shapiro forum warrior you will get me on some other bullshit technicality.


File a petition.
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#506 - 2013-08-31 22:38:28 UTC
Matari Akiga wrote:
Lucy Hastmena wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
remind me again how it's unfair to freighter pilots that it requires over 15 pilots to kill 1 ship?

ok you dont get it, no problem i explain it again, also for the really slow thinking people like you.

This is not about a fight, this is about SUIZID gankers. There will be no Fight or something like that. There is even not a fault of the Freighter Pilot necessary like jumping into low sec or undocking during war. And of Course you dont need 15 Pilots, just one Player with ISBoxer will kill you and you dont have even the Chance to do anything. You cant warp away, you cant fit tank, you cant scout ( they bump you until their gank squad logged in) There is absolute nothing you can do about.

Tell this guy your story, guess he needs to know:
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=19440276


If the value of the expected drop is less than it would cost to gank the freighter then unless you have offended someone personally they are not likely to gank you it does not make financial sense.

If you put 10 billion isks worth of faction shiny's in a freighter and auto pilot... well a fool and his things are quickly parted and rightly too

if you look at the 10 Bil + kills on eve kill the loses on there are normally not capital or super caps they are transport ships, where people are stupid there is an almost 13 billion isk Badger 2 that dropped nearly 8 bil in loot, people need to stop being so amazingly stupid.

It cost about 100 mil to get almost 8 Billion isks worth of drops if you have ever done any trading tell me that is not the best investment ever?

Math is hard. Statistics is harder. "Expected value?" "Investments?" Get out of here with that elitist jargon! :bahgawd:

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#507 - 2013-08-31 22:38:50 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Matari Akiga wrote:
It cost about 100 mil to get almost 8 Billion isks worth of drops if you have ever done any trading tell me that is not the best investment ever?


I'd invest heavily in this.

Seconded.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#508 - 2013-08-31 22:39:11 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Matari Akiga wrote:
It cost about 100 mil to get almost 8 Billion isks worth of drops if you have ever done any trading tell me that is not the best investment ever?


I'd invest heavily in this.


To be completely honest, I don't kill freighters in highsec for the profit, I do it so people will create terrible threads like this.

And that's why you're a goon hero. :swoon:

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#509 - 2013-08-31 22:39:12 UTC
MetaSwarm propaganda team is in overdrive on this one.

You watching CCP?
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#510 - 2013-08-31 22:40:21 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Matari Akiga wrote:
If the value of the expected drop is less than it would cost to gank the freighter then unless you have offended someone personally they are not likely to gank you it does not make financial sense.


One might rightly question what the hold of a freighter is supposed be filled with when they're still profitable to gank loaded with trit.

Did it occur to you that perhaps it shouldn't be filled just because it's there? Or that perhaps you should not fly it solo if you are going to fill it to the point of being profitable to gank? Or that perhaps you should not expect to just walk away from the computer with your freighter on autopilot and expect it to be alive when you return?

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#511 - 2013-08-31 22:40:59 UTC
Skydell wrote:
MetaSwarm propaganda team is in overdrive on this one.

You watching CCP?

I only noticed this thread because a bunch of my threads got moved to F&I, and this was the most active non-sticky thread in that particular subforum at the time. Expect to see a lot of me in the near future. Smile

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Elizabeth Aideron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#512 - 2013-08-31 22:42:03 UTC
guys ccp is giving me suspect flags for legal aggression, yes it's happening, no i won't give any proof, all goons are filthy liars, CCP HELP ME NOW!!!!!
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#513 - 2013-08-31 22:42:53 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Matari Akiga wrote:
It cost about 100 mil to get almost 8 Billion isks worth of drops if you have ever done any trading tell me that is not the best investment ever?


I'd invest heavily in this.


To be completely honest, I don't kill freighters in highsec for the profit, I do it so people will create terrible threads like this.


I'd still call the entertainment value of these threads a healthy profit.

This raises the question, "What is value?" And where does it come from?

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#514 - 2013-08-31 22:44:06 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Yeah they need to be able to fit a tank. Give them fitting abilty. Its pretty stupid an orca can be fit to have 3 times the HP of a freighter.

You'll get a lot of idiots coming into this thread saying theres no problem but they make a living off ganking freighters so theyre biased. You'll also get people who are fanboys of the latter but neither will have a reasonable or sustainable argument so likely you'll get flamed.

I don't gank nor use freighters and its clear to me that when freighters were introduced without fitting it took a sizeable battleship force to kill one. Things have changed a lot and freighters need a rethink.

Why do they need to be able to fit a tank? The real world equivalent of a freighter would be something like a bulk oil carrier, which like a freighter can't fit a tank, can be overcome by a smaller force (see Somalian pirates) and can have it's direction of travel affected by smaller vessels, known as tugs.

An Orca is more of a multipurpose vessel, while primarily an industrial logistics platform, unlike a freighter it can be used for multiple purposes. An Orca can sacrifice cargo space to fit a tank, a lot of Orca pilots don't bother though and go for max cargo, those *all Orcas are as easy if not easier to kill than a freighter.

*edit, turns out a properly tanked Orca requires the same amount of ships to kill as a jump freighter, it can't pack 3 x the EHP

Barring perfect skills, the Orca is one of the few ships where hull tanking is the best option. Cool

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#515 - 2013-08-31 22:45:21 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Matari Akiga wrote:
If the value of the expected drop is less than it would cost to gank the freighter then unless you have offended someone personally they are not likely to gank you it does not make financial sense.


One might rightly question what the hold of a freighter is supposed be filled with when they're still profitable to gank carrying nothing but trit


who said you have to fill a freighter before you undock? you don't have to fill all 900k m3+ of a charon's cargo before it will let you out of the station.

Opportunity cost versus risk is not an equation that people are very good at understanding. It's the same reason you see folks pile faction, deadspace, and officer modules onto mission or ratting ships for minimal gains.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#516 - 2013-08-31 22:49:45 UTC
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:
guys ccp is giving me suspect flags for legal aggression, yes it's happening, no i won't give any proof, all goons are filthy liars, CCP HELP ME NOW!!!!!



I don't mind if they give me suspect. I do mind when the only viable way to move a freighter out of harms way is to manipulate mechanics not intended to be used that way.

Keep trying failhard goon.
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#517 - 2013-08-31 22:50:55 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
who said you have to fill a freighter before you undock? you don't have to fill all 900k m3+ of a charon's cargo before it will let you out of the station.


The point was that the cargo hold shouldn't be so big if there's nothing you can intelligently fill it with.

I disagree: the cargo hold should actually be bigger. You have no idea how much of a hassle it is to move some truly huge loads around in nullsec, when you are limited to moving less than a million cubic meters per pilot per trip. And the same could be said of folks in high sec, or anywhere that anyone wants to move a truly enormous bulk to supply an area. I think a great many people would love it if the cargo holds of Freighters and Jump Freighters were expanded, or if a new class of Super Freighters were introduced. Even following the best advice on how to avoid being an awful loss mail, right now Freighters and Jump Freighters are limited in how quickly they can service an area. Consider that whenever a major war starts in null sec, literally several billion cubic meters of sovereignty structures needs to be moved; consider that whenever a major deployment occurs anywhere, literally billions of cubic meters of ships and modules need to be shipped; consider that whenever a new devblog is released, literally trillions of cubic meters of every goddamned thing needs to be moved around to supply trade hubs. If anything, Freighters are too small for being the end of the spectrum for hauling. Folks just need to protect their assets, which being AFK, solo, and autopiloting does not accomplish.

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#518 - 2013-08-31 22:51:47 UTC
Skydell wrote:
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:
guys ccp is giving me suspect flags for legal aggression, yes it's happening, no i won't give any proof, all goons are filthy liars, CCP HELP ME NOW!!!!!



I don't mind if they give me suspect. I do mind when the only viable way to move a freighter out of harms way is to manipulate mechanics not intended to be used that way.

Keep trying failhard goon.

Why are you arguing about it if you think he's wrong and that he won't stop repeating the same arguments?

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Lyris Nairn
Perkone
Caldari State
#519 - 2013-08-31 22:52:40 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
There's a really good reason that professional hauliers such as Red Frog have a collateral limit. They don't like having massive targets painted on their freighters.

edit - I stand corrected on Orcas, but overall they're less profitable to gank, as you can't fill a properly tanked Orca with as much crap. I knew I should have checked the EHP, Infinity Ziona generally doesn't have a clue, but like a moron I took it at face value, the original post has been corrected, strikethrough text is what was incorrect.

I respect your choice to use strikethrough rather than merely edit out the inaccurate information. +1

Sky Captain of Your Heart

Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn
Elizabeth Aideron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#520 - 2013-08-31 22:52:42 UTC
Skydell wrote:
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:
guys ccp is giving me suspect flags for legal aggression, yes it's happening, no i won't give any proof, all goons are filthy liars, CCP HELP ME NOW!!!!!



I don't mind if they give me suspect. I do mind when the only viable way to move a freighter out of harms way is to manipulate mechanics not intended to be used that way.

Keep trying failhard goon.


You should, because CCP says the only way to get a suspect flag in highsec is stealing or through logistics.