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Adapt Freighter and Jump Freighter

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Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#21 - 2013-08-31 09:03:39 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Yeah they need to be able to fit a tank. Give them fitting abilty. Its pretty stupid an orca can be fit to have 3 times the HP of a freighter.

You'll get a lot of idiots coming into this thread saying theres no problem but they make a living off ganking freighters so theyre biased. You'll also get people who are fanboys of the latter but neither will have a reasonable or sustainable argument so likely you'll get flamed.

I don't gank nor use freighters and its clear to me that when freighters were introduced without fitting it took a sizeable battleship force to kill one. Things have changed a lot and freighters need a rethink.

Why do they need to be able to fit a tank? The real world equivalent of a freighter would be something like a bulk oil carrier, which like a freighter can't fit a tank, can be overcome by a smaller force (see Somalian pirates) and can have it's direction of travel affected by smaller vessels, known as a tug.

An Orca is more of a multipurpose vessel, while primarily an industrial logistics platform, unlike a freighter it can be used for multiple purposes. An Orca can sacrifice cargo space to fit a tank, a lot of Orca pilots don't bother though and go for max cargo, those Orcas are as easy if not easier to kill than a freighter.


A properly tanked Orca takes the same amount of T1 cats to kill as a Jump Freighter does, so the statement made previously about Orca's being able to tank better than freighters is actually wrong.

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S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#22 - 2013-08-31 09:03:50 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
who said you have to fill a freighter before you undock? you don't have to fill all 900k m3+ of a charon's cargo before it will let you out of the station.


The point was that the cargo hold shouldn't be so big if there's nothing you can intelligently fill it with.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#23 - 2013-08-31 09:04:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
There's a really good reason that professional hauliers such as Red Frog have a collateral limit. They don't like having massive targets painted on their freighters.

edit - I stand corrected on Orcas, but overall they're less profitable to gank, as you can't fill a properly tanked Orca with as much crap. I knew I should have checked the EHP, Infinity Ziona generally doesn't have a clue, but like a moron I took it at face value, the original post has been corrected, strikethrough text is what was incorrect.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#24 - 2013-08-31 09:05:35 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Matari Akiga wrote:
If the value of the expected drop is less than it would cost to gank the freighter then unless you have offended someone personally they are not likely to gank you it does not make financial sense.


One might rightly question what the hold of a freighter is supposed be filled with when they're still profitable to gank loaded with trit.


Why would you carry nothing but trit anyway-Oh nevermind highsec people.

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Dave Stark
#25 - 2013-08-31 09:06:17 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
who said you have to fill a freighter before you undock? you don't have to fill all 900k m3+ of a charon's cargo before it will let you out of the station.


The point was that the cargo hold shouldn't be so big if there's nothing you can intelligently fill it with.
So basically, because people are dumb we should remove freighters from the game?

You best be trolling.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#26 - 2013-08-31 09:06:37 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
who said you have to fill a freighter before you undock? you don't have to fill all 900k m3+ of a charon's cargo before it will let you out of the station.


The point was that the cargo hold shouldn't be so big if there's nothing you can intelligently fill it with.


Station egg's & iHubs come to mind.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2013-08-31 09:08:23 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Yeah they need to be able to fit a tank. Give them fitting abilty. Its pretty stupid an orca can be fit to have 3 times the HP of a freighter.

You'll get a lot of idiots coming into this thread saying theres no problem but they make a living off ganking freighters so theyre biased. You'll also get people who are fanboys of the latter but neither will have a reasonable or sustainable argument so likely you'll get flamed.

I don't gank nor use freighters and its clear to me that when freighters were introduced without fitting it took a sizeable battleship force to kill one. Things have changed a lot and freighters need a rethink.


If CCP gave freighters the ability to fit a tank, people would fit cargohold expanders instead. This would also mean freighters base cargohold would have to be heavily nerfed to account for that. In the end, the only viable fitting option would be to fit cargohold mods. For anything else you would just use an Orca.

Since its already foolish to fill a freighter to capacity those foolish enough to fit expanders making them even easier to gank and then filling the expanded space with more loot would find themselves in pods very quickly.

And your real world example anyone who tries to hijack a tanker has a very real chance of being pod killed permanently. If they ad that to the game would be cool.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#28 - 2013-08-31 09:10:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Infinity Ziona wrote:

And your real world example anyone who tries to hijack a tanker has a very real chance of being pod killed permanently. If they ad that to the game would be cool.

Really? it's considered bad form for civilian bulk carriers to be packing armed crewmen or guards, many ports won't let civilian vessels dock if there are armed personnel aboard.

Source : United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-08-31 09:12:05 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Yeah they need to be able to fit a tank. Give them fitting abilty. Its pretty stupid an orca can be fit to have 3 times the HP of a freighter.

You'll get a lot of idiots coming into this thread saying theres no problem but they make a living off ganking freighters so theyre biased. You'll also get people who are fanboys of the latter but neither will have a reasonable or sustainable argument so likely you'll get flamed.

I don't gank nor use freighters and its clear to me that when freighters were introduced without fitting it took a sizeable battleship force to kill one. Things have changed a lot and freighters need a rethink.


If CCP gave freighters the ability to fit a tank, people would fit cargohold expanders instead. This would also mean freighters base cargohold would have to be heavily nerfed to account for that. In the end, the only viable fitting option would be to fit cargohold mods. For anything else you would just use an Orca.

Since its already foolish to fill a freighter to capacity those foolish enough to fit expanders making them even easier to gank and then filling the expanded space with more loot would find themselves in pods very quickly.

And your real world example anyone who tries to hijack a tanker has a very real chance of being pod killed permanently. If they ad that to the game would be cool.


I didn't give a real world example, but you seem very sure that I infact did. Please underline my real world example.

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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#30 - 2013-08-31 09:13:33 UTC
It's confused you with me, as a highsec pubbie I'm flattered, you should be angry P

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#31 - 2013-08-31 09:15:28 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Why would you carry nothing but trit anyway-Oh nevermind highsec people.


Not sure where you think Megathrons come from.
Matari Akiga
Doomheim
#32 - 2013-08-31 09:16:20 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
who said you have to fill a freighter before you undock? you don't have to fill all 900k m3+ of a charon's cargo before it will let you out of the station.


The point was that the cargo hold shouldn't be so big if there's nothing you can intelligently fill it with.


Station egg's & iHubs come to mind.


This is the only time my freighter has ever been close to full, and that is me avoiding as much Hi sec as I can.

CCP dont need to change everything to suit your play style.

Improvise, adapt and overcome!
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#33 - 2013-08-31 09:17:54 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Why would you carry nothing but trit anyway-Oh nevermind highsec people.


Not sure where you think Megathrons come from.


Next you'll tell me that it takes 20 JF trips to have all the trit for a Titan instead of a single trip.

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Dave Stark
#34 - 2013-08-31 09:19:26 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Why would you carry nothing but trit anyway-Oh nevermind highsec people.


Not sure where you think Megathrons come from.


Next you'll tell me that it takes 20 JF trips to have all the trit for a Titan instead of a single trip.

But Mallak, you can't be suggesting that there's a more efficient way of transporting minerals than just dumping them all in the back of a freighter, surely!?
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#35 - 2013-08-31 09:20:33 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
who said you have to fill a freighter before you undock? you don't have to fill all 900k m3+ of a charon's cargo before it will let you out of the station.


The point was that the cargo hold shouldn't be so big if there's nothing you can intelligently fill it with.
So basically, because people are dumb we should remove freighters from the game?

You best be trolling.


If their original design has been invalidated by balance drift, the more reasonable thing to do would presumably be to address their balancing.

You could nerf t1 fit destroyer dps, give freighters more ehp, give freighters less cargo, make freighters less easy to hold with bumping, ect.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2013-08-31 09:21:43 UTC
Permanent podkilling.

Yes! That's a feature CCP should implement!
Carebears will finally fight back!

This won't backfire one bit!
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#37 - 2013-08-31 09:31:46 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Permanent podkilling.

Yes! That's a feature CCP should implement!
Carebears will finally fight back!

This won't backfire one bit!

The carebear tears would fill the Aral Sea.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Feyd's Survival Pack
Matari Akiga
Doomheim
#38 - 2013-08-31 09:31:50 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
who said you have to fill a freighter before you undock? you don't have to fill all 900k m3+ of a charon's cargo before it will let you out of the station.


The point was that the cargo hold shouldn't be so big if there's nothing you can intelligently fill it with.
So basically, because people are dumb we should remove freighters from the game?

You best be trolling.


If their original design has been invalidated by balance drift, the more reasonable thing to do would presumably be to address their balancing.

You could nerf t1 fit destroyer dps, give freighters more ehp, give freighters less cargo, make freighters less easy to hold with bumping, ect.


One destroyer cannot kill a freighter in hi sec unless you are at war or it otherwise legal combat it requires coordination of multiple assets which means there is profit to be made doing it, in short adjust the way that you fly, either limit your cargo or bring friends.

A frigate with double webs will help you get into warp that much faster reducing the risk or bumping and if you warp to zero and jump immediately it is very hard to get caught on the gates repeat for each jump.

I fly freighters and this is the way I do things, I fly with a double web Daredevil piloted by a friend not an alt he double webs me to help me get into warp quicker, plus I don't fly with a cargo value so high that I am attractive to gankers.

But if for some reason I need to move lots of more expensive things I bring more friends to scout ahead, twin logi and a heavy fast battleship.

CCP dont need to change everything to suit your play style.

Improvise, adapt and overcome!
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#39 - 2013-08-31 09:33:41 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Why would you carry nothing but trit anyway-Oh nevermind highsec people.


Not sure where you think Megathrons come from.


Next you'll tell me that it takes 20 JF trips to have all the trit for a Titan instead of a single trip.


Uncompressed? That would take ~150 JF trips unless my napkin math is off, or ~800 trips for some of your blobs.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2013-08-31 09:34:11 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
who said you have to fill a freighter before you undock? you don't have to fill all 900k m3+ of a charon's cargo before it will let you out of the station.


The point was that the cargo hold shouldn't be so big if there's nothing you can intelligently fill it with.
So basically, because people are dumb we should remove freighters from the game?

You best be trolling.


If their original design has been invalidated by balance drift, the more reasonable thing to do would presumably be to address their balancing.

You could nerf t1 fit destroyer dps, give freighters more ehp, give freighters less cargo, make freighters less easy to hold with bumping, ect.

Pointless.
Need more dps? Bring more people.
Has more EHP? Bring more people.
Harder to bump? Machariel.

The reasonable thing to do is analyzing the situation and determining what the problem is.
As usual, it's there where most people don't look for it.
In the mirror.

Nobody ever seems to notice that every single day they blame other things for their own failures.
The saddest about this is that people call it human nature, just so they can keep going with jt.