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Adapt Freighter and Jump Freighter

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Dave stark
#341 - 2013-08-31 16:09:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Since the next best thing, cruisers cost 5 x more (due to material costs) ganking freighters overall would be more expensive and overall ganks on freighters would likely decrease.

Only temporarily until people train up to fly a Brutix or Talos.

Which is why freighters need a HP buff or tank fitting ability. To drive up the cost of ganking to a point it was originally at, profitable to gank a piñata but not an empty freighter or just carrying a typical cargo.


You realise that we ganked freighters using Talos' for an entire year right?

yeah but we all know that catalysts are only the ship of choice because miniluv is broke and poor.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#342 - 2013-08-31 16:10:56 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Since the next best thing, cruisers cost 5 x more (due to material costs) ganking freighters overall would be more expensive and overall ganks on freighters would likely decrease.

Only temporarily until people train up to fly a Brutix or Talos.

Which is why freighters need a HP buff or tank fitting ability. To drive up the cost of ganking to a point it was originally at, profitable to gank a piñata but not an empty freighter or just carrying a typical cargo.


Ganking an empty freighter is not profitable.
It is fun though, explosions are pretty.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#343 - 2013-08-31 16:11:13 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Since the next best thing, cruisers cost 5 x more (due to material costs) ganking freighters overall would be more expensive and overall ganks on freighters would likely decrease.

Only temporarily until people train up to fly a Brutix or Talos.

Which is why freighters need a HP buff or tank fitting ability. To drive up the cost of ganking to a point it was originally at, profitable to gank a piñata but not an empty freighter or just carrying a typical cargo.


Confirming once again that the only reason people gank freighters is for profit. Repeat, nothing in EVE is ever done just for laughs.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#344 - 2013-08-31 16:11:16 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Which is why freighters need a HP buff or tank fitting ability. To drive up the cost of ganking to a point it was originally at, profitable to gank a piñata but not an empty freighter or just carrying a typical cargo.
…so in other words, no buff in HP — and no nerf in the form of fitting ability — is really needed.
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#345 - 2013-08-31 16:18:20 UTC
Tippia wrote:
No.
And before you try again,


You'll have to forgive me for making sure we're on the same page; you have a fondness for autistic semantics and several others on your end of the discussion seem to disagree.

Quote:
let's make this clear once again: no matter what label you try to use, the answer will still be no, because you're still assuming the wrong direction of the relationship.


The other direction would be a balancing factor is a material requirement. That doesn't make sense to me.
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#346 - 2013-08-31 16:20:12 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
Confirming once again that the only reason people gank freighters is for profit. Repeat, nothing in EVE is ever done just for laughs.


If you're doing it for ***** and giggles you shouldn't have an issue with CCP making it less profitable?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#347 - 2013-08-31 16:22:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
S Byerley wrote:
You'll have to forgive me for making sure we're on the same page
Have you tried reading what I write rather than just skipping over it and inventing your own claims that you then try to attribute to me, and then getting grumpy when I correct you?

Quote:
The other direction would be a balancing factor is a material requirement.
The other direction would be that balance is a factor in cost; that cost is a product of balance. You know, the things you've been trying to reverse every time I've mentioned it?

Quote:
If you're doing it for ***** and giggles you shouldn't have an issue with CCP making it less profitable?
Because there's no reason to, and making adjustments for no reason is a recipe for disaster.
Dave stark
#348 - 2013-08-31 16:23:14 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Domanique Altares wrote:
Confirming once again that the only reason people gank freighters is for profit. Repeat, nothing in EVE is ever done just for laughs.


If you're doing it for ***** and giggles you shouldn't have an issue with CCP making it less profitable?


Players can make it less profitable. CCP doesn't need to get involved.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#349 - 2013-08-31 16:24:10 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
The other direction would be a balancing factor is a material requirement. That doesn't make sense to me.
No, the material requirement is a result of balance, not the other way. Also you might want to edit out your offensive remark.

Oh god.
Womyn Power
Broski Bad End
#350 - 2013-08-31 16:24:54 UTC
i hope this **** becomes a weekly thing for love squad

highsec is such a huge untapped tear reservoir of tears
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#351 - 2013-08-31 16:27:34 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Quote:
The other direction would be a balancing factor is a material requirement.
The other direction would be that balance is a factor in cost; that cost is a product of balance. You know, the things you've been trying to reverse every time I've mentioned it?


Material requirements are set by CCP; how can they be a product of balance? Unless you're trying to say that CCP balances ships and then sets material requirements based on that balance - in which case the distinction is purely philosophical and obviously not appropriate to make here.
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#352 - 2013-08-31 16:33:35 UTC  |  Edited by: S Byerley
Riot Girl wrote:
Also you might want to edit out your offensive remark.


I can only assume you take issue with me calling a type of semantics autistic? I can't see why; it's merely the easiest way to refer to an asocial fixation on strict definitions that don't match formal or colloquial usage - obviously related to the common traits of the neural disorder.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#353 - 2013-08-31 16:37:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Womyn Power wrote:
i hope this **** becomes a weekly thing for love squad

highsec is such a huge untapped tear reservoir of tears

Freighter pilots have nothing on most miners the amount of tears, threats and vitriol they produce will keep you going for years.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#354 - 2013-08-31 16:41:52 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Womyn Power wrote:
i hope this **** becomes a weekly thing for love squad

highsec is such a huge untapped tear reservoir of tears

Freighter pilots have nothing on miners, the amount of tears, threats and vitriol they produce will keep you going for years.


Must be due to the staggering amount of freighters that get ganked. Freighter pilots simply don't have any tears left. I know if I were part of a profession where my chosen ship type got ganked every 20 minutes on average, I would be completely beaten down beyond the point of complaint, too.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#355 - 2013-08-31 16:46:13 UTC
You might want to add sarcasm tags Domanique, S Byerley will take your post as proof that freighters die every 20 minutes, regardless of the facts.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#356 - 2013-08-31 16:49:57 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
You might want to add sarcasm tags Domanique, S Byerley will take your post as proof that freighters die every 20 minutes, regardless of the facts.


Oh look
Matari Akiga
Doomheim
#357 - 2013-08-31 16:50:35 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Yeah they need to be able to fit a tank. Give them fitting abilty. Its pretty stupid an orca can be fit to have 3 times the HP of a freighter.

You'll get a lot of idiots coming into this thread saying theres no problem but they make a living off ganking freighters so theyre biased. You'll also get people who are fanboys of the latter but neither will have a reasonable or sustainable argument so likely you'll get flamed.

I don't gank nor use freighters and its clear to me that when freighters were introduced without fitting it took a sizeable battleship force to kill one. Things have changed a lot and freighters need a rethink.


I fly freighters and use them as part of a sov holding null sec alliances logistic's backbone I do have a PVP toon but I have no interest in hi sec ganks, I use my freighter mainly in hi sec and JF for most of the null work that said I have used the freighter in null and vise versa with the JF, so that is my back ground in this argument.

In the 3 ish years I have used a freighter I have never been the victim of a gank because of taking efforts to reduce the risk which with out going into the details again, see my earlier posts, include managing cargo volume, having a support fleet fly with you and never ever ever flying afk.

I have been scanned but never more because of flying smart.

CCP dont need to change everything to suit your play style.

Improvise, adapt and overcome!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#358 - 2013-08-31 16:52:33 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Material requirements are set by CCP; how can they be a product of balance?
First CCP determines the balance of a ship. Then they look at it and say “hmm… how common do we want this thing to be”. Then they set a price to achieve that goal. To what degree it reflects actual performance depends on the purpose of the ship.

Quote:
Unless you're trying to say that CCP balances ships and then sets material requirements based on that balance - in which case the distinction is purely philosophical and obviously not appropriate to make here.
No, it's actually a crucial difference and a core part of game design. The direction you're proposing means that an imbalance can be rectified by giving the ship the right cost. This doesn't work, as has been proven by… oh… every attempt at doing so ever. The direction I'm describing means that depending on where the ship sits in the overall scale of things (where balance is but one of many considerations), you assign it a cost that provides an indication of that position. It does not alter the position in any way.

You're trying to say that it's prescriptive; I'm saying that it's (only partially) descriptive.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#359 - 2013-08-31 16:55:21 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
You might want to add sarcasm tags Domanique, S Byerley will take your post as proof that freighters die every 20 minutes, regardless of the facts.


But Jonah, it's not sarcasm. It's simply common knowledge that freighters get ganked every 20 minutes in highsec. That's why everything costs so much, because most goods never actually get where they are going. Goonswarm takes all the sacrificial freighter loot and boils it up in a big pot of miner tears, and uses the resultant potion as a mind-altering pablum that they feed to their renter corps in order to make them more passive and agreeable to 3am CTAs in the name of the cause.

It's the circle of life.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#360 - 2013-08-31 16:55:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
S Byerley wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
You might want to add sarcasm tags Domanique, S Byerley will take your post as proof that freighters die every 20 minutes, regardless of the facts.


Oh look

Your list of things to learn from this thread now consists of

  • the meaning of the word "average"
  • what a strawman argument is

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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