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Adapt Freighter and Jump Freighter

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Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#321 - 2013-08-31 15:48:56 UTC
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Domanique Altares wrote:
S Byerley wrote:


It's not though? By far the most significant factor in trade hub price is the raw material cost determined by CCP.


Build cost is not determined by CCP. The bill of materials is, but the cost of those materials is determined by the player market.

So the amounts on the bill of materials was determined by whom if not CCP?


Are you illiterate?

Sometimes. Depends if its a weekend or not.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#322 - 2013-08-31 15:49:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Domanique Altares
S Byerley wrote:
Tippia wrote:
…the players. The last time the cost of those materials was determined by CCP was back when trit was capped by NPC-made shuttles.


This might be a valid differentiating factor if T1 ships weren't all built out of, more or less, the same material; and if availability and yield weren't also determined by CCP.

If you like: is material cost a factor in balance?

One might call materials consumed in the process a cost or even a price of manufacture.


One does call them that.

The prices of those materials, and hence the cost to build things, are determined by the player market, and not by CCP. CCP's in-game blueprint may tell you that Item X requires 100 Tritanium to manufacture. What it does not tell you is that YOU MUST PAY XXXX isk for that Tritanium. Stop confusing material requirements with material costs. The words do not mean the same thing.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#323 - 2013-08-31 15:50:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
S Byerley wrote:
This might be a valid differentiating factor if T1 ships weren't all built out of, more or less, the same material; and if availability and yield weren't also determined by CCP.
The materials required for different ships depend to a great extent on which race they belong to, and what ores and minerals are associated with their home regions. Oh, and until we're pushing the envelope of how much is being respawned every day (we're not even close), the actual availability of those minerals is largely determined by the players.

Quote:
If you like: is material cost a factor in balance?
No.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#324 - 2013-08-31 15:50:33 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Lol what specifically doesn't relate to the topic at hand? Or are you hoping to obfuscate?

You tell me, you're the expert at it.

Obfuscating then. Need to do better than find a bunch of posts validating my position.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#325 - 2013-08-31 15:54:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Lol what specifically doesn't relate to the topic at hand? Or are you hoping to obfuscate?

You tell me, you're the expert at it.

Obfuscating then. Need to do better than find a bunch of posts validating my position.

Actually I found a bunch of posts where you were talking about ship balancing, something you later denied.

Have you considered a career in politics? Lying through your teeth about things you know nothing of is a desirable skillset there.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#326 - 2013-08-31 15:57:07 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Quote:
If you like: is material cost a factor in balance?
No.


Perhaps material requirements then?
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#327 - 2013-08-31 15:57:29 UTC
Tippia wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
This might be a valid differentiating factor if T1 ships weren't all built out of, more or less, the same material; and if availability and yield weren't also determined by CCP.
The materials required for different ships depend to a great extent on which race they belong to, and what ores and minerals are associated with their home regions.

Quote:
If you like: is material cost a factor in balance?
No.

In the context of this thread, regards to freighter ganking, yes it is. It directly relates to ganking ability, frequency and profitability. If catalysts cost 100 million each because material costs to build them was increased there would not be catalysts ganking.

Since the next best thing, cruisers cost 5 x more (due to material costs) ganking freighters overall would be more expensive and overall ganks on freighters would likely decrease.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#328 - 2013-08-31 15:59:19 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Since the next best thing, cruisers cost 5 x more (due to material costs) ganking freighters overall would be more expensive and overall ganks on freighters would likely decrease.

Only temporarily until people train up to fly a Brutix or Talos.

Oh god.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#329 - 2013-08-31 16:00:30 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

In the context of this thread, regards to freighter ganking, yes it is. It directly relates to ganking ability, frequency and profitability. If catalysts cost 100 million each because material costs to build them was increased there would not be catalysts ganking.

Since the next best thing, cruisers cost 5 x more (due to material costs) ganking freighters overall would be more expensive and overall ganks on freighters would likely decrease.


Ridiculous hypotheticals are an excellent tactic for argument.

Did you know that if freighters cost 100 billion each because material costs to build them were increased, hardly anyone would bother owning them, and we wouldn't have so many inept freighter pilots creating these whine threads?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#330 - 2013-08-31 16:01:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
On a different note, wtf people?!

All week, Falcons have been selling like crazy and Zealots have been slow as molasses, and suddenly it's the other way around? Buy more Falcons dammit!


It may have nothing to do with the topic, but since this seems to be the current angry thread, I thought I'd vent some of mine as well. Evil

S Byerley wrote:
Perhaps material requirements then?
No.
And before you try again, let's make this clear once again: no matter what label you try to use, the answer will still be no, because you're still assuming the wrong direction of the relationship.

Infinity Ziona wrote:
In the context of this thread, regards to freighter ganking, yes it is. It directly relates to ganking ability, frequency and profitability. If catalysts cost 100 million each because material costs to build them was increased there would not be catalysts ganking.
And again, that's not balance — that's return on investment and improper pricing.
The balance between freighters and catalysts would not change in the slightest.

Now, if you want to argue balance in terms of “how worth-while is activity A compared to activity B” then that's a different matter, but at that point, ganking wouldn't be particularly out of line anyway…
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#331 - 2013-08-31 16:01:38 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Tippia wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
This might be a valid differentiating factor if T1 ships weren't all built out of, more or less, the same material; and if availability and yield weren't also determined by CCP.
The materials required for different ships depend to a great extent on which race they belong to, and what ores and minerals are associated with their home regions.

Quote:
If you like: is material cost a factor in balance?
No.

In the context of this thread, regards to freighter ganking, yes it is. It directly relates to ganking ability, frequency and profitability. If catalysts cost 100 million each because material costs to build them was increased there would not be catalysts ganking.

Since the next best thing, cruisers cost 5 x more (due to material costs) ganking freighters overall would be more expensive and overall ganks on freighters would likely decrease.


Freighter ganking isn't as frequent as you seem to think it is, so your cost balancing argument is entirely irrelevant.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#332 - 2013-08-31 16:03:46 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Since the next best thing, cruisers cost 5 x more (due to material costs) ganking freighters overall would be more expensive and overall ganks on freighters would likely decrease.

Only temporarily until people train up to fly a Brutix or Talos.

Which is why freighters need a HP buff or tank fitting ability. To drive up the cost of ganking to a point it was originally at, profitable to gank a piñata but not an empty freighter or just carrying a typical cargo.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#333 - 2013-08-31 16:04:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Mallak Azaria wrote:


Freighter ganking isn't as frequent as you seem to think it is, so your cost balancing argument is entirely irrelevant.

Exhumer ganking isn't either, people still bleat like sheep about it despite CCP stating that it's at all time low.

One freighter a month would be too much for some people.

Infinity Ziona wrote:

Which is why freighters need a HP buff or tank fitting ability. To drive up the cost of ganking to a point it was originally at, profitable to gank a piñata but not an empty freighter or just carrying a typical cargo.
You're still talking about ship balance, despite your protestations to the contrary.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Phil Defer
Doomheim
#334 - 2013-08-31 16:04:04 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Lugalbandak wrote:
Wy would de base cargohold heavily nerfed?


because fitting a single cargo expander would allow freighters to move packaged capitals in to high sec, which is an issue easily avoided by not letting freighters fit cargo modules.

Who cares if you move them into highsec. As long as you can't assemble them which is easily fixed.


you mean aside from the fact that your ill thought idea has knock on consequences that will require time and effort to fix when instead CCP can carry on ignoring the dumb people who fill their freighter with all their worldly goods and hit undock.

yeah i know, let's make a load of issues just to protect dumb people.

hint; ccp have never protected dumb people, that's why scamming is a perfectly legitimate profession in eve.


"ccp have never protected dumb people"

Yeah , that's why ccp make pop a window when someone try to buy a item + 100% of the average price , i believe
Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#335 - 2013-08-31 16:04:13 UTC
Lucy Hastmena wrote:

Even this freighter
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=19440276
was killed by them because it dosnt cost them anything really worthfull (sec status is for an 00 alliance not a problem and of course you can buy it easy after the last patch if you need it)


To be fair, the providence was a test run to get people some experience :D
Dave stark
#336 - 2013-08-31 16:06:53 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Since the next best thing, cruisers cost 5 x more (due to material costs) ganking freighters overall would be more expensive and overall ganks on freighters would likely decrease.

Only temporarily until people train up to fly a Brutix or Talos.

Which is why freighters need a HP buff or tank fitting ability. To drive up the cost of ganking to a point it was originally at, profitable to gank a piñata but not an empty freighter or just carrying a typical cargo.

thank you for finally admitting freighter EHP is fine.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#337 - 2013-08-31 16:07:27 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Which is why freighters need a HP buff or tank fitting ability. To drive up the cost of ganking to a point it was originally at, profitable to gank a piñata but not an empty freighter or just carrying a typical cargo.
How much of a buff does it need?

Oh god.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#338 - 2013-08-31 16:07:35 UTC
Phil Defer wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:

hint; ccp have never protected dumb people, that's why scamming is a perfectly legitimate profession in eve.


"ccp have never protected dumb people"

Yeah , that's why ccp make pop a window when someone try to buy a item + 100% of the average price , i believe

Yet despite the pop up window, being dumb wins.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#339 - 2013-08-31 16:08:01 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Since the next best thing, cruisers cost 5 x more (due to material costs) ganking freighters overall would be more expensive and overall ganks on freighters would likely decrease.

Only temporarily until people train up to fly a Brutix or Talos.

Which is why freighters need a HP buff or tank fitting ability. To drive up the cost of ganking to a point it was originally at, profitable to gank a piñata but not an empty freighter or just carrying a typical cargo.


You realise that we ganked freighters using Talos' for an entire year right?

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#340 - 2013-08-31 16:09:23 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Since the next best thing, cruisers cost 5 x more (due to material costs) ganking freighters overall would be more expensive and overall ganks on freighters would likely decrease.

Only temporarily until people train up to fly a Brutix or Talos.

Which is why freighters need a HP buff or tank fitting ability. To drive up the cost of ganking to a point it was originally at, profitable to gank a piñata but not an empty freighter or just carrying a typical cargo.


Ganking an empty freighter is not profitable.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.