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Adapt Freighter and Jump Freighter

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S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#281 - 2013-08-31 15:10:37 UTC  |  Edited by: S Byerley
Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
I like how you reverted to trolling after we refuted all of your hilariously incorrect arguments.


You appear to not want to answer the question. What purpose does cost serve in the game?


it's pretty much the basis of the economy, and due to the economy being player driven the situation where everything costs the same simply won't exist.


Ohhhh, you just can't understand Industry then? I can try to explain but I'm a bad teacher -

In T1 ship manufacture, cost is determined almost entirely by mineral cost and manufacture time (the margins are minimal due to industry pvp).

If you'll notice, I said -

"This would obviously be accomplished in practice by adjusting raw component and manufacturing cost."

In any case, I'm sure freighter pilots would be happy if you got the cost to within a reasonable factor of destroyers.

Incidentally, your reply seems off topic: If you prefer, I'd like to know why different ships require different amounts of material/time/investment to produce since that's not supposed to factor into balance.
Dave Stark
#282 - 2013-08-31 15:12:17 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
I like how you reverted to trolling after we refuted all of your hilariously incorrect arguments.


You appear to not want to answer the question. What purpose does cost serve in the game?


it's pretty much the basis of the economy, and due to the economy being player driven the situation where everything costs the same simply won't exist.


Ohhhh, you just can't understand Industry then? I can try to explain but I'm a bad teacher -

In T1 ship manufacture, cost is determined almost entirely by mineral cost and manufacture time (the margins are minimal due to industry pvp).

If you'll notice, I said -

"This would obviously be accomplished in practice by adjusting raw component and manufacturing cost."

In any case, I'm sure freighter pilots would be happy if you got the cost to within a reasonable factor of destroyers.


did you have a point?
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#283 - 2013-08-31 15:12:57 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

I just clearly demonstrated, with your help (thank you) that in regards to ganking cost is a balancing factor. You said so yourself. Are you calling you a liar?

Where?

You've been prattling on about how cost is a factor in ship balance, the profitability of a gank has absolutely f' all to do with ship balance.

So you think we've been talking about the combat capabilities of a freighter vs catalysts all this time. Ill let you in on a little secret, freighters are basically giant shuttles, they have no combat capabilities so why would we have been talking about them in regards to that kind of balance in a freighter gank thread?

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#284 - 2013-08-31 15:15:25 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
did you have a point?


"I'd like to know why different ships require different amounts of material/time/investment to produce since that's not supposed to factor into balance."
Dave Stark
#285 - 2013-08-31 15:16:32 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
did you have a point?


"I'd like to know why different ships require different amounts of material/time/investment to produce since that's not supposed to factor into balance."


you're terrible at trolling, just so you're aware.

also, wrong thread.
Dave Stark
#286 - 2013-08-31 15:17:44 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

I just clearly demonstrated, with your help (thank you) that in regards to ganking cost is a balancing factor. You said so yourself. Are you calling you a liar?

Where?

You've been prattling on about how cost is a factor in ship balance, the profitability of a gank has absolutely f' all to do with ship balance.

So you think we've been talking about the combat capabilities of a freighter vs catalysts all this time. Ill let you in on a little secret, freighters are basically giant shuttles, they have no combat capabilities so why would we have been talking about them in regards to that kind of balance in a freighter gank thread?


I'll let you in on a little secret; you've been systematically incorrect throughout the whole thread. your dignity would be grateful if you just gave up now.
Matari Akiga
Doomheim
#287 - 2013-08-31 15:17:58 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Are you still willing to say cost does not balance ganking?


yes. because as long as there's more loot in the freighter than it costs me to gank it; i'll gank it regardless of cost. cost doesn't matter as long as it's less than how much you've got in your ship which has no bearing on game balance or ship cost. it's entirely dependent upon how dumb freighter pilots are.

Lmao. So cost is not a balancing factor but if theres not enough loot to justify the cost you won't gank it. Got it :)


The cost of building the hull is not a balancing factor but the contents or modules fitted to that hull that may drop when the hull is destroyed have a direct impact because they represent potential profit as long as the value that drops exceeds the value of the ships that were used to destroy the ship, if not then it is a net loss for the gankers.

Due to the drop mechanics you can never be sure that it will be worth while but the greater the value of dropped goods the greater the likely hood of a gank being profitable.

So as you can see the value of the ship that is being ganked is never compared to the value of the ships ganking but the value of the possible drops is compared to the cost of the gank fleet and their modules, moral of the story keep the cargo cheap less chance of getting ganked, or stop trying to play solo in an MMO

This is not rocket science people!

CCP dont need to change everything to suit your play style.

Improvise, adapt and overcome!
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#288 - 2013-08-31 15:23:15 UTC
So far ITT:


  1. People who have no friends should be equal to people who do.
  2. Cost is a balancing factor.
  3. People only ever gank freighters for profit.
  4. Webbing corp mates earns you a suspect flag.
  5. Droves of people that don't understand how prices work on the market.


I'm sure there's more examples, but so far we have a lot of evidence that someone should rebalance the stupidity module, since it seems to have an incredibly long cycle time.
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#289 - 2013-08-31 15:23:26 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
you're terrible at trolling, just so you're aware.

also, wrong thread.


Not sure how this is the wrong thread.

It's also not trolling; I'm just trying to understand your reasoning. I can't help it if your own logic repeated back to you sounds ridiculous. So please, humor me and answer -

"why different ships require different amounts of material/time/investment to produce since that's not supposed to factor into balance."
Dave Stark
#290 - 2013-08-31 15:25:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
you're terrible at trolling, just so you're aware.

also, wrong thread.


Not sure how this is the wrong thread.

It's also not trolling; I'm just trying to understand your reasoning. I can't help it if your own logic repeated back to you sounds ridiculous. So please, humor me and answer -

"why different ships require different amounts of material/time/investment to produce since that's not supposed to factor into balance."


again, wrong thread.

just so you know why it's the wrong thread, since you seem unable to understand why; we're not talking about industry or ship production. we're talking about suicide ganking.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#291 - 2013-08-31 15:26:38 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
why different ships require different amounts of material/time/investment to produce since that's not supposed to factor into balance.
Because it creates a difference in supply, and they want different roles and abilities to have different rarity.

Cost is a product of balance, not a factor in it.
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#292 - 2013-08-31 15:26:58 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Quote:
Not sure how this is the wrong thread.

It's also not trolling; I'm just trying to understand your reasoning. I can't help it if your own logic repeated back to you sounds ridiculous. So please, humor me and answer -

"why different ships require different amounts of material/time/investment to produce since that's not supposed to factor into balance."


again, wrong thread.


Please direct me to the right thread and answer the question chum.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#293 - 2013-08-31 15:27:18 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
you're terrible at trolling, just so you're aware.

also, wrong thread.


Not sure how this is the wrong thread.

It's also not trolling; I'm just trying to understand your reasoning. I can't help it if your own logic repeated back to you sounds ridiculous. So please, humor me and answer -

"why different ships require different amounts of material/time/investment to produce since that's not supposed to factor into balance."


Because it's bigger & thus requires more materials & a longer build time.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Dave Stark
#294 - 2013-08-31 15:28:37 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
chum.


no.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#295 - 2013-08-31 15:28:45 UTC
S Byerley wrote:

"why different ships require different amounts of material/time/investment to produce since that's not supposed to factor into balance."


Because CCP likes to troll people who don't understand balance in the game's crafting system, versus balance in the game's combat system.
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#296 - 2013-08-31 15:30:30 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Cost is a product of balance, not a factor in it.


If one ships requires vastly more material of the same type than another, one might rightly conclude that the price is not entirely driven by balance?
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#297 - 2013-08-31 15:31:31 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
chum.


no.


That's not very sociable of you.
Dave Stark
#298 - 2013-08-31 15:32:13 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
chum.


no.


That's not very sociable of you.


I'm not a very sociable person, or maybe it's just you.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#299 - 2013-08-31 15:33:10 UTC
S Byerley wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Cost is a product of balance, not a factor in it.


If one ships requires vastly more material of the same type than another, one might rightly conclude that the price is not entirely driven by balance?


Price is driven by supply & demand. It's the result of the player controlled economy.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
#300 - 2013-08-31 15:34:07 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
chum.


no.


That's not very sociable of you.


I'm not a very sociable person, or maybe it's just you.


Perhaps logic just angers you?