These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Adapt Freighter and Jump Freighter

First post
Author
Matari Akiga
Doomheim
#201 - 2013-08-31 13:23:19 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
S Byerley wrote:
Numbers very relevant; 15 brutix's, for example, stops being profitable in most cases.


No it isn't.

people will still gank freighters, they will just use different ships if destroyers get nerfed in to the ground.


Then surely you have no complaints if Freighters/ect. are adjusted such that it takes ~900m to gank them with a reasonable number of people?


Why do we need to adjust freighters? Nobody has actually answered this question yet.


Nothing needs to change in my opinion, the ships can survive its just some players are not interested in using their freighters unless they are full or unwilling to take the steps that are needed to help them survive or travel more quickly.

It is pure Darwinian evolution change with the environment or die .

CCP dont need to change everything to suit your play style.

Improvise, adapt and overcome!

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#202 - 2013-08-31 13:24:43 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Addendum to my previous post.

quick back of envelope calculation (all skills at V)
Thanatos : Approx 1,200,000 EHP including resists
Time allowable for kill : 60 seconds
T2 Gank Catalyst DPS (inc overload) : Approx 685

685dps*60seconds=41,100 damage
1,200,000ehp/41,100damage=30 (rounded up from 29.19)

30 Catalysts under ideal conditions should be able to take down a Thanatos in circa 60 seconds.

Mallak Azaria or Tippia, I'd appreciate it if you could check my math, I haven't included armour repairs.


Tippia will probably beat me to it, but if not I'll check it when I get home.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#203 - 2013-08-31 13:25:05 UTC
Pretending you don't know what Im saying to avoid the comparison. Priceless .

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Dave Stark
#204 - 2013-08-31 13:27:35 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Pretending you don't know what Im saying to avoid the comparison. Priceless .


we know exactly what you're saying. that's pretty much the problem.
Traedar
InterStellar Trading Syndicate
#205 - 2013-08-31 13:28:09 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
remind me again how it's unfair to freighter pilots that it requires over 15 pilots to kill 1 ship?


Because the 1 ship is designed to be unable to defend itself and be unable to run away. And because it can be kept from warping easily with no risk.

Also because the 15 ships required cost a few hundred millions and the 1 ship costs 6 billion. That's if you fit the 15 ships expensively, I'm guessing many freighter gankings are much cheaper (meta mods and faction ammo).

Suicide ganking freighters in high sec, with their slowness, is probably the most low risk ganking in the game. You have next to forever to scan the thing as it aligns, and even if it's not AFK you can easily organize your ganking buddies since it is so slow in warp. Nevermind if he's autopiloting.

With smaller ship classes getting damage buffs it probably makes sense to buff freighter EHP.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#206 - 2013-08-31 13:29:43 UTC
Reading through all this crap makes me fear that
every
single
one
of
you
turns dumber and dumber with every post.


Except those who fail at life, because they don't understand the concept
of self responsibility. These already maxed out.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#207 - 2013-08-31 13:29:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
How about every time a cap ship is solo it reverts to 300,000 EHP. If it dies (cus it was ratting) its the pilots fault for not having remote reps, scouts, webbers and instantly deployables cyno alts.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Eram Fidard
Doomheim
#208 - 2013-08-31 13:31:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Eram Fidard
Since hi-sec is so big, has so many people in it -and is (according to the whiners) 95% filled with gankers and griefers- I can't help but wonder where are the white knights?

Seems pretty easy to whine nonsensically about things like RL navies and EHP ratios while completely ignoring personal responsibility, or teamwork, things gankers are comfortable with.

Much easier to post a thread, start an argument, than actually do something. You think RL navies and coast guards are full of NPCs who fulfill their responsibilities because of code? No, they are full of real people who are there because they want to make a real difference.

If gankers are so prevalent, you should be able to provide content for dozens or hundreds of white knight types, patrolling the space lanes, ensuring evildoers get their just desserts (or some other polarized nonsense). Take some personal responsibility, would ya? Just for one moment, stop the flow of tears, adjust the whine down to a minimum, and use your brain. I've got a few amazing ideas perfectly suited for people looking to make hi-sec a 'safer' place; but if you're unwilling to use a webbing ship, a scout, or the smallest modicum of common sense, I'm willing to bet that is out of your reach.

Gankers=knowledgeable, connected people who organise together for a common goal

Victims=insular, unorganised, or ignorant players unwilling to work together or do anything to change their circumstance (and the occasional unlucky bastard I'm sure =)

Which would you rather fall under?

Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages.

Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#209 - 2013-08-31 13:32:25 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
How about every time a cap ship is solo it reverts to 300,000 EHP. If it dies (cus it was ratting) its the pilots fault for not having remote reps, scouts, webbers and instantly deployables cyno alts.

Are you implying ratting carriers don't get ganked?
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#210 - 2013-08-31 13:35:24 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
How about every time a cap ship is solo it reverts to 300,000 EHP. If it dies (cus it was ratting) its the pilots fault for not having remote reps, scouts, webbers and instantly deployables cyno alts.

Are you implying ratting carriers don't get ganked?

Im implying theyre a lot more survivable when they're ganked than a freighter in supposedly safer high sec.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#211 - 2013-08-31 13:35:51 UTC
Eram Fidard wrote:
Since hi-sec is so big, has so many people in it -and is (according to the whiners) 95% filled with gankers and griefers- I can't help but wonder where are the white knights?

Seems pretty easy to whine nonsensically about things like RL navies and EHP ratios while completely ignoring personal responsibility, or teamwork, things gankers are comfortable with.

Much easier to post a thread, start an argument, than actually do something. You think RL navies and coast guards are full of NPCs who fulfill their responsibilities because of code? No, they are full of real people who are there because they want to make a real difference.

If gankers are so prevalent, you should be able to provide content for dozens or hundreds of white knight types, patrolling the space lanes, ensuring evildoers get their just desserts (or some other polarized nonsense). Take some personal responsibility, would ya? Just for one moment, stop the flow of tears, adjust the whine down to a minimum, and use your brain. I've got a few amazing ideas perfectly suited for people looking to make hi-sec a 'safer' place; but if you're unwilling to use a webbing ship, a scout, or the smallest modicum of common sense, I'm willing to bet that is out of your reach.

Gankers=knowledgeable, connected people who organise together for a common goal

Freighter Victims=insular, unorganised, or ignorant players unwilling to work together or do anything to change their circumstance (and the occasional unlucky bastard I'm sure =)

Teamwork and collective effort is an unfamiliar concept to some people.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Dave Stark
#212 - 2013-08-31 13:39:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Traedar wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
remind me again how it's unfair to freighter pilots that it requires over 15 pilots to kill 1 ship?


Because the 1 ship is designed to be unable to defend itself and be unable to run away. And because it can be kept from warping easily with no risk.

Also because the 15 ships required cost a few hundred millions and the 1 ship costs 6 billion. That's if you fit the 15 ships expensively, I'm guessing many freighter gankings are much cheaper (meta mods and faction ammo).

Suicide ganking freighters in high sec, with their slowness, is probably the most low risk ganking in the game. You have next to forever to scan the thing as it aligns, and even if it's not AFK you can easily organize your ganking buddies since it is so slow in warp. Nevermind if he's autopiloting.

With smaller ship classes getting damage buffs it probably makes sense to buff freighter EHP.


the gankers brought friends; why didn't the freighter? you can't say "it's not balanced" when you're talking about 1 player vs more than 1 player. a single web alt would have helped it run away, for example.

cost isn't a balancing factor, stop pretending that it is.

you don't have forever to scan it, at all, especially if it has webbing assistance.

a low risk activity that guarantees you the loss of your ship, and only a 50% chance on loot? and there's "low" risk? are you sure about that?

it makes no sense to buff freighter EHP, at all.
Dave Stark
#213 - 2013-08-31 13:40:04 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
How about every time a cap ship is solo it reverts to 300,000 EHP. If it dies (cus it was ratting) its the pilots fault for not having remote reps, scouts, webbers and instantly deployables cyno alts.

Are you implying ratting carriers don't get ganked?

Im implying theyre a lot more survivable when they're ganked than a freighter in supposedly safer high sec.


oh, really? a ship designed for combat has more survivability than a ship designed to be an empty box with a warp drive?

tell me more about this clearly shocking revelation.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#214 - 2013-08-31 13:41:44 UTC
I wonder how long 15 catalysts would last against a smartbombing battleship or two.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#215 - 2013-08-31 13:43:37 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Traedar wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
remind me again how it's unfair to freighter pilots that it requires over 15 pilots to kill 1 ship?


Because the 1 ship is designed to be unable to defend itself and be unable to run away. And because it can be kept from warping easily with no risk.

Also because the 15 ships required cost a few hundred millions and the 1 ship costs 6 billion. That's if you fit the 15 ships expensively, I'm guessing many freighter gankings are much cheaper (meta mods and faction ammo).

Suicide ganking freighters in high sec, with their slowness, is probably the most low risk ganking in the game. You have next to forever to scan the thing as it aligns, and even if it's not AFK you can easily organize your ganking buddies since it is so slow in warp. Nevermind if he's autopiloting.

With smaller ship classes getting damage buffs it probably makes sense to buff freighter EHP.


the gankers brought friends; why didn't the freighter? you can't say "it's not balanced" when you're talking about 1 player vs more than 1 player. a single web alt would have helped it run away, for example.

cost isn't a balancing factor, stop pretending that it is.

you don't have forever to scan it, at all, especially if it has webbing assistance.

a low risk activity that guarantees you the loss of your ship, and only a 50% chance on loot? and there's "low" risk? are you sure about that?

it makes no sense to buff freighter EHP, at all.

Cost is a balancing factor in EvE, always has been and always will be.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Dave Stark
#216 - 2013-08-31 13:43:45 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
I wonder how long 15 catalysts would last against a smartbombing battleship or two.


a catalyst has 3.9k ehp.

I'll let you do the math.
Dave Stark
#217 - 2013-08-31 13:44:24 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Cost is a balancing factor in EvE, always has been and always will be.

citation needed.

ccp said it wasn't during the mining barge rebalance.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#218 - 2013-08-31 13:44:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Im implying theyre a lot more survivable when they're ganked than a freighter in supposedly safer high sec.
Statistically speaking, given the disparity of population numbers between highsec (80+% of characters) and everywhere else, highsec is a lot safer, unless of course you happen to be afk and/or in a loot piñata.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#219 - 2013-08-31 13:46:15 UTC
I guess 2 battleships could easily alpha the whole fleet of Catalysts for roughly the same cost.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#220 - 2013-08-31 13:46:51 UTC
Traedar wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
remind me again how it's unfair to freighter pilots that it requires over 15 pilots to kill 1 ship?


Because the 1 ship is designed to be unable to defend itself and be unable to run away. And because it can be kept from warping easily with no risk.

Also because the 15 ships required cost a few hundred millions and the 1 ship costs 6 billion. That's if you fit the 15 ships expensively, I'm guessing many freighter gankings are much cheaper (meta mods and faction ammo).

Suicide ganking freighters in high sec, with their slowness, is probably the most low risk ganking in the game. You have next to forever to scan the thing as it aligns, and even if it's not AFK you can easily organize your ganking buddies since it is so slow in warp. Nevermind if he's autopiloting.

With smaller ship classes getting damage buffs it probably makes sense to buff freighter EHP.


Its a multiplayer pvp game. You consent to the risk of PVP the moment you undock. If you lose 1v15, then that is your fault.
If you are 2v15, then chances of your survival greatly increase. It is highsec, not perfectsec.

You can reliably warp to 0 so one side of the gate is _very_ safe, on the other side, their bumper is not going to be on top of your freighter (on average he'll be several kms away), and you can own webs that can reach half across the gate sphere, and you get to choose when you freighter uncloaks - ie you can be within webrange at the instant your freighter appears.

By webbing your freighter its isk/hr picks up, ie the webber account is not an entirely dead overhead account either.