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A Real Criticism of CCP
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Forum Damsel
Doomheim
#141 - 2013-09-02 03:56:33 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Akemi Kashada wrote:
Problem is:

- You cannot be "industrialist only" and fight back.
Solution: don't be “industrialist only”. If you absolutely have to, at least acknowledge the fact that there are plenty of ways to get back, including player-provided services for precisely that purpose. There is no way to cheat the mechanics (or, if there are, it's called an “exploit” and gets you banned). Either way, any claim that it's somehow impossible (or even difficult) to get back is disingenuous and uninformed.

Quote:
- Security status IS a joke
No. Security status is a tool. It provides mechanism for all players — new and old — to get back at attackers and/or to slow said attackers down.

Quote:
- The main reason for the post is not to ask for safer conditions to industrialists, but to ask for equally unsafe and responsible conditions for gankers and general fighting pilots.
So it's a request to make life safer for the gankers, then? After all, they can be attacked anywhere at any time without any mechanical penalties and repercussions on the attacker, whereas attacking the industrialists imposes all kinds of punishments.

Quote:
- EVE market is not player driven.
Oh… Ok. Sorry. Giving up now. Lol
I mistook this for a serious post at first, but yeah, you got me. 10/10.


You seem to be missing the point the OP was making. It is simple. NOOBs still learning the game and not yet knowledgable as to their options are being jumped and ganked. They are being convinced to quit EvE before they have a chance to learn the game by immature punks who enjoy ruining somebody else's day.
Forum Damsel
Doomheim
#142 - 2013-09-02 04:48:41 UTC
Master Justasii wrote:
Summary:

"I mine in Hi-sec and get ganked. I cannot respond IN TIME to successfully retaliate."

The answer and solution are simple and straightforward and require no changes to game mechanics:

Answer to why you cannot retaliate: You are by yourself.
Answer to be able to retaliate: Don't be by yourself.

You could easily have some mates near enough to respond to your distress. If you don't, then, stfu seriously; nowhere is safe in EVE. You undock, you can get blowed up. Get some friends to watch your back, or pay someone to. Seriously, this is the biggest whiney thread I have ever read and the OP deserves to be ganked forever. And seriously, you probably mine for days and days without threat, and then what, once a month you get ganked? I would call that pretty safe and easy mining. STFU OP.


There are some people (myself included) who like to solo. EvE is definately NOT a game for the solo player.

Yes, there are consequences to soloing, but it should not be impossible and EvE is damn near impossible to solo.

Sorry, but I prefer to NOT base the survival of my character on whether another player thinks it's worth covering my character.

So, I mine in high sec. It is the ONLY place in EvE online a new player (which I am) can learn how to play the game. These gankers who prey on new players (and very interestingly avoid new players flying combat vessels... the cowards) who convince those new players the game is not worth their hard-earned money.

Sorry, but you do NOT convince people to play a game by allowing those who are experianced in the game to gank those trying to learn how to play the game. You attract new players by enabling them to learn the game BEFORE they face those experianced players.

Low-sec and null-sec players who prey on new players because the new players have not yet learned how to defend themselves are forcing those players to decide NOT to continue.
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#143 - 2013-09-02 04:53:38 UTC
Forum Damsel wrote:
So, I mine in high sec. It is the ONLY place in EvE online a new player (which I am) can learn how to play the game.


Our wildly successful newbee drives (where we have new players pod jump to null immediately) prove otherwise.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Elizabeth Aideron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#144 - 2013-09-02 04:54:00 UTC
You aren't allowed to gank in rookie systems. And how many people are going to be convinced to keep playing if their only gameplay experience is staring at rocks all day?
Kahetha
Eclipse of Darkness
#145 - 2013-09-02 08:18:06 UTC
but then again.. if you actually could fight back, those people wouldn't go after you in the first place since they are just looking for easy kills that cant retaliate Lol
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#146 - 2013-09-02 08:33:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Forum Damsel wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Icarus Able wrote:

Read the first post and you will realise you are a dumbass.

Thank you for your wonderful insight, I did read the first post.

The fact of the matter is that most miners won't fight back. I've been in mining corps, I still mine, I also gank other miners on occasion. 90% of them will sit there and whine in local about how CCP should protect them from the bad people, that they're defenceless and that others shouldn't be able to interfere with them.

Please insult me further, it makes me all warm and gooey inside.


when is the last time you've seen a Venture run by a week-old character even know how to put up an effective fight? These are the players who are being persuaded to dump EvE by the gankers.

Newbies in Ventures rarely get ganked, generally the only reason to gank a Venture is to blood a new suicide ganker. Once they get into barges and exhumers, they are no longer newbies and fair game.

The Venture itself is damn hard to hold down, it's fast as hell, has 2 warp core stabs built in and if anyone wants to tackle it they need multiple points. In short it's an ideal vessel for a newbie to learn about watching the overview and GTFOing when anything red appears on it. If you do get ganked in a Venture you're either very unlucky or not paying attention.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#147 - 2013-09-02 08:39:56 UTC
Renault T'Bonin wrote:
But when the inevitable happens... we can't fight back. The targets are either NPC corps, stealthy alt corps, or full out alliance connected corporations. Even in corps of hundreds of people... we cannot retaliate. The perpetrators come to empire space specifically to hassle miners, then leave



I've always said this and keep saying it, High sec is the safest place for pirates and criminals.
It's the perfect place for cowards barely able to hit the weak (many fail still), SS loss is a joke, Tags for SS is a joke (they should be rarer and far more expensive) and SS status as Navies/Concord response should be adapted: under 0.5 navies scram/web shoot you, under 0.3 concord pops you.
High sec income/industry etc should also get adjusted, Jita obliterated, high sec market fees increased to POCOs levels of 17% and every single tax in high sec should be at 17%.

This is how you push players out of high sec to low/null: making actions have consequences, have a permanent impact on that character lifetime for its choices, anything else is just a joke and a slap on the "Sandbox" face.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Neo Hal
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#148 - 2013-09-02 08:40:53 UTC
Forum Damsel wrote:
Master Justasii wrote:
Summary:

"I mine in Hi-sec and get ganked. I cannot respond IN TIME to successfully retaliate."

The answer and solution are simple and straightforward and require no changes to game mechanics:

Answer to why you cannot retaliate: You are by yourself.
Answer to be able to retaliate: Don't be by yourself.

You could easily have some mates near enough to respond to your distress. If you don't, then, stfu seriously; nowhere is safe in EVE. You undock, you can get blowed up. Get some friends to watch your back, or pay someone to. Seriously, this is the biggest whiney thread I have ever read and the OP deserves to be ganked forever. And seriously, you probably mine for days and days without threat, and then what, once a month you get ganked? I would call that pretty safe and easy mining. STFU OP.


There are some people (myself included) who like to solo. EvE is definately NOT a game for the solo player.

Yes, there are consequences to soloing, but it should not be impossible and EvE is damn near impossible to solo.

Sorry, but I prefer to NOT base the survival of my character on whether another player thinks it's worth covering my character.

So, I mine in high sec. It is the ONLY place in EvE online a new player (which I am) can learn how to play the game. These gankers who prey on new players (and very interestingly avoid new players flying combat vessels... the cowards) who convince those new players the game is not worth their hard-earned money.

Sorry, but you do NOT convince people to play a game by allowing those who are experianced in the game to gank those trying to learn how to play the game. You attract new players by enabling them to learn the game BEFORE they face those experianced players.

Low-sec and null-sec players who prey on new players because the new players have not yet learned how to defend themselves are forcing those players to decide NOT to continue.


I can relate to this. I also prefer to play solo for reasons I've already stated. I'm okay with the fact that Eve is designed to encourage cooperative play. After all, it's an MMO. But I also agree that it shouldn't be impossible to play solo. As it is, it's not impossible to play solo...it's just difficult.

I don't really get angry at the gankers. I mostly just feel sorry for them. I've never been attacked by anyone that didn't have a ridiculous advantage. The one time I fought back instead of running, the attacker warped almost immediately...lol. I didn't even stand a chance...the coward. But that's okay. I'm forced to conclude that most gankers are trying to compensate for "something".
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#149 - 2013-09-02 08:45:46 UTC
i don't get angry at the gankers, i just convince myself into the delusion that i'm better than them in some undefined way
Neo Hal
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#150 - 2013-09-02 08:51:02 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
i don't get angry at the gankers, i just convince myself into the delusion that i'm better than them in some undefined way


Oh it's not undefined at all. I'm better than them for the same reason that I'm better than criminals in RL.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#151 - 2013-09-02 09:06:30 UTC
Neo Hal wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
i don't get angry at the gankers, i just convince myself into the delusion that i'm better than them in some undefined way


Oh it's not undefined at all. I'm better than them for the same reason that I'm better than criminals in RL.

Criminals in RL no doubt consider themselves better than you, so what's your point?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#152 - 2013-09-02 09:10:01 UTC
You haven't even met all the criminals, how can you know them?
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#153 - 2013-09-02 09:11:34 UTC
It sounds like you're judging a person based on possibly one act they commited in their lives! This doesn't reflect well on you.
Lady Areola Fappington
#154 - 2013-09-02 09:13:28 UTC
Neo Hal wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
i don't get angry at the gankers, i just convince myself into the delusion that i'm better than them in some undefined way


Oh it's not undefined at all. I'm better than them for the same reason that I'm better than criminals in RL.



Confirmed, people who blow up spaceships in a blowing up spaceships game are exactly like criminals RL.

BRB guys gotta go hold up a bank so I can buy PLEX.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#155 - 2013-09-02 09:17:14 UTC
*preps the getaway vehicle*

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#156 - 2013-09-02 09:21:32 UTC
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:
You aren't allowed to gank in rookie systems. And how many people are going to be convinced to keep playing if their only gameplay experience is staring at rocks all day?

And how many people who are newbies know this? The no ganking rule is not wildly known. Not even all gankers know about the newbie system rules, nor which systems are covered. I've seen suspect baiting in Arnon repeatedly (And the Devs never took action against them either) which is against the rules according to CCP. Yet they allow newbies to get baited despite petitions reporting it. Because the newbies who get ganked don't know enough to report it and get told by the gankers 'It's allowed'. And believe them.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#157 - 2013-09-02 09:22:30 UTC
I'd just like to note that most mission runners are guilty of unprovoked attacks on empire assets and are responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#158 - 2013-09-02 09:25:32 UTC
Forum Damsel wrote:

So, I mine in high sec. It is the ONLY place in EvE online a new player (which I am) can learn how to play the game. These gankers who prey on new players (and very interestingly avoid new players flying combat vessels... the cowards) who convince those new players the game is not worth their hard-earned money.


You're not learning anything about how to play EVE by mining in high sec. I'm quite certain you mastered the activity of mining by the time you were done with the requisite tutorial mission, and therefore need no more study in the matter.

There's a whole world out there; don't get stuck orbiting rocks all the time, or you'll miss it.
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
#159 - 2013-09-02 09:55:14 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
You're not learning anything about how to play EVE by mining in high sec. I'm quite certain you mastered the activity of mining by the time you were done with the requisite tutorial mission, and therefore need no more study in the matter.
And you'd be quite wrong. There is actually quite a bit more to mining, at least doing it profitably and well. I'm not even a miner and I know that. And I'll agree it's quite possibly the single most boring activity in the entire game. But unfortunately it is necessary. Somebody has gotta pull the ore, so the ships can be built, and then they can be blown up. Just the way the game works.
UGWidowmaker
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#160 - 2013-09-02 09:58:13 UTC
as i always said... 00 is more safe than empire... and trust me im not lying.. theres always somewhere in 00 u can be without being ganked.. hell theres system wich are never visited... Rent a system by an alliance or something... there is even areas where u will not get shot by the people living there who tolerate neuts aslong as they dont agress... just gpo there and mine your hearty out... u can even dock at there stations and refine etc..