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Wormholes

 
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Marauders, Bastion Mode, and Wormholes

First post
Author
Rengerel en Distel
#21 - 2013-08-30 13:20:04 UTC
calaretu wrote:
Taking into accounts the buff to rails and self rep coming aswell these will be rather decent to warp in as scattered sniper fleet at 250km without logi support. If anything approach you just leave bastion mode and spool up the mjd then keep sniping. The mjd cd is exactly the same as the bastion cycle. No way a blapping dread can keep up with the range unless it start fitting sniper itself


The rail buff was medium rails.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.

calaretu
Honestly We didnt know
#22 - 2013-08-30 13:24:55 UTC
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
calaretu wrote:
Taking into accounts the buff to rails and self rep coming aswell these will be rather decent to warp in as scattered sniper fleet at 250km without logi support. If anything approach you just leave bastion mode and spool up the mjd then keep sniping. The mjd cd is exactly the same as the bastion cycle. No way a blapping dread can keep up with the range unless it start fitting sniper itself


The rail buff was medium rails.


/ me looks away in shame..
Eh. ok but still.
Asayanami Dei
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#23 - 2013-08-30 15:11:16 UTC
I, for one, am training maruders 5...

I'm a leaf on the wind, watch how I--THE CAPACITOR IS EMPTY

Youtube: /asayanami

Twitter: @asayanami

wormholefundamentals.com

unimatrix0030
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2013-08-30 17:49:29 UTC
corbexx wrote:
Lydia vanPersie wrote:
If nothing else, these will be impressive for crashing holes mid-fights. Who needs to shove orcas through when you can enter as an apoc, and leave as an archon?



thats if it will allow you to jump with the bastion mode on , not managed to find anything about if that will be possible so far.

as setsune rin said i just cant see them being used for pvp much. there extra tank will mean nothing at all to dreads. the mass of them will limit numbers. For home defence maybe but then if you wantto bring them in as ranged snipers tornados are much cheaper or just use a dread instead.

There tracking and range is nice i guess but with no damage bonus i just cant see them being used at all for how much they cost and the mass they use

Chitsa or James, can you guys ask if it still can jump holes while in bastion mode?
It would make them more used in w-space if they can in my opinion(collapsing hicks less needed).
Maybe even have a negative bastion mode where it become much lighter so they can jump in light.

Or add a jump drive script wich instead of making it jump, just make the battleship lighter(like a battlecruiser) so it has more agility and less mass. With the disadvantage of only being able to do that the cycle of the jump drive(and make it unable to diable before the end of the cycle).It should make BS as mobile as 100mn tengu's.

No local in null sec would fix everything!

Keith Planck
Hi-Sec Huggers
#25 - 2013-08-30 17:54:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Keith Planck
unimatrix0030 wrote:
corbexx wrote:
Lydia vanPersie wrote:
If nothing else, these will be impressive for crashing holes mid-fights. Who needs to shove orcas through when you can enter as an apoc, and leave as an archon?



thats if it will allow you to jump with the bastion mode on , not managed to find anything about if that will be possible so far.

as setsune rin said i just cant see them being used for pvp much. there extra tank will mean nothing at all to dreads. the mass of them will limit numbers. For home defence maybe but then if you wantto bring them in as ranged snipers tornados are much cheaper or just use a dread instead.

There tracking and range is nice i guess but with no damage bonus i just cant see them being used at all for how much they cost and the mass they use

Chitsa or James, can you guys ask if it still can jump holes while in bastion mode?
It would make them more used in w-space if they can in my opinion(collapsing hicks less needed).
Maybe even have a negative bastion mode where it become much lighter so they can jump in light.

Or add a jump drive script wich instead of making it jump, just make the battleship lighter(like a battlecruiser) so it has more agility and less mass. With the disadvantage of only being able to do that the cycle of the jump drive(and make it unable to diable before the end of the cycle).It should make BS as mobile as 100mn tengu's.


CCP is giving us this wonderful thing and all you want is MOAR MOAR MOAR

Collapsing holes is already easy, there's no need to ask for them to make it easier on top of them already making it easier. What is this Guild Wars 2?
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2013-08-30 18:14:53 UTC
Setsune Rin wrote:
Chitsa Jason wrote:
I just want to barge in as CSM and mention that these things are gonna be awesome for pew.


how? they will die in a fire
Dreads will will bash straight through the tank as if it were a paper towel.

they're enormous so you cant field big fleets of them outside home


they're going to be amazing at shooting sleepers though



i see some PVP niches in home defense situations where no opposing dreads are involved, deploy them at a long range and bring the pain

but anything else they're just sitting ducks



Ah the WH elite again.

There are more WH's below C5. Many of which people have been saying for years are far to safe. Largely because of the annoyance of trying to siege a POS without dreads. Maybe this will bring more pew to the lower class WH's

Also could be fun to see the effect on high sec POS operations.
corbexx
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2013-08-30 18:16:17 UTC
Keith Planck wrote:
unimatrix0030 wrote:
corbexx wrote:
Lydia vanPersie wrote:
If nothing else, these will be impressive for crashing holes mid-fights. Who needs to shove orcas through when you can enter as an apoc, and leave as an archon?



thats if it will allow you to jump with the bastion mode on , not managed to find anything about if that will be possible so far.

as setsune rin said i just cant see them being used for pvp much. there extra tank will mean nothing at all to dreads. the mass of them will limit numbers. For home defence maybe but then if you wantto bring them in as ranged snipers tornados are much cheaper or just use a dread instead.

There tracking and range is nice i guess but with no damage bonus i just cant see them being used at all for how much they cost and the mass they use

Chitsa or James, can you guys ask if it still can jump holes while in bastion mode?
It would make them more used in w-space if they can in my opinion(collapsing hicks less needed).
Maybe even have a negative bastion mode where it become much lighter so they can jump in light.

Or add a jump drive script wich instead of making it jump, just make the battleship lighter(like a battlecruiser) so it has more agility and less mass. With the disadvantage of only being able to do that the cycle of the jump drive(and make it unable to diable before the end of the cycle).It should make BS as mobile as 100mn tengu's.


CCP is giving us this wonderful thing and all you want is MOAR MOAR MOAR

Collapsing holes is already easy, there's no need to ask for them to make it easier on top of them already making it easier. What is this Guild Wars 2?


i'm not wanting more i want to know if we can use it to collaspe wh's or not cos that will have a huge effect in wh space probably more than anything else about them.
Keith Planck
Hi-Sec Huggers
#28 - 2013-08-30 18:19:09 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Setsune Rin wrote:
Chitsa Jason wrote:
I just want to barge in as CSM and mention that these things are gonna be awesome for pew.


how? they will die in a fire
Dreads will will bash straight through the tank as if it were a paper towel.

they're enormous so you cant field big fleets of them outside home


they're going to be amazing at shooting sleepers though



i see some PVP niches in home defense situations where no opposing dreads are involved, deploy them at a long range and bring the pain

but anything else they're just sitting ducks



Ah the WH elite again.

There are more WH's below C5. Many of which people have been saying for years are far to safe. Largely because of the annoyance of trying to siege a POS without dreads. Maybe this will bring more pew to the lower class WH's

Also could be fun to see the effect on high sec POS operations.


This is exactly what I'm thinking, mini-dreads as bad-ass siege ships to finally pop all those terri-bad poses :)
Thor66777
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#29 - 2013-08-30 18:19:37 UTC
corbexx wrote:


i'm not wanting more i want to know if we can use it to collapse wh's or not cos that will have a huge effect in wh space probably more than anything else about them.


They probably won't. Would be the same as a dread in siege in terms of mobility.
Keith Planck
Hi-Sec Huggers
#30 - 2013-08-30 18:22:43 UTC
Thor66777 wrote:
corbexx wrote:


i'm not wanting more i want to know if we can use it to collapse wh's or not cos that will have a huge effect in wh space probably more than anything else about them.


They probably won't. Would be the same as a dread in siege in terms of mobility.


Even if they COULD, it would only effect high class wormholes since most lower wormholes have a mass limit under 1 billion...
corbexx
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2013-08-30 18:45:24 UTC  |  Edited by: corbexx
Keith Planck wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Setsune Rin wrote:
Chitsa Jason wrote:
I just want to barge in as CSM and mention that these things are gonna be awesome for pew.


how? they will die in a fire
Dreads will will bash straight through the tank as if it were a paper towel.

they're enormous so you cant field big fleets of them outside home


they're going to be amazing at shooting sleepers though



i see some PVP niches in home defense situations where no opposing dreads are involved, deploy them at a long range and bring the pain

but anything else they're just sitting ducks



Ah the WH elite again.

There are more WH's below C5. Many of which people have been saying for years are far to safe. Largely because of the annoyance of trying to siege a POS without dreads. Maybe this will bring more pew to the lower class WH's

Also could be fun to see the effect on high sec POS operations.


This is exactly what I'm thinking, mini-dreads as bad-ass siege ships to finally pop all those terri-bad poses :)


this is attually a pretty good point it will def help against dickstars in c2 to c4 (doesnt help c1 mind) but for bashing a pos you dont need tracking just damage. although could be quite fun to use a crap load of these to invade c2 c4 wh's still not sure how effect they will be and guessing you woudl need a fair few of them
Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#32 - 2013-08-30 19:27:28 UTC
You'd only need to use them to incap the ECM mods, and could then swap them out for less expensive ships to do the bulk of the bashing.
Eternal Corrosion
The Truskers
#33 - 2013-08-30 19:28:16 UTC
i dont like them for a serious low-class WH POS bashing.

Maybe if your group is really small, there is a chance of using them, but if you have more than 5-6 people i would use a normal 4 BS + 3 T1 logi. Obviously if they have tons and tons of ECM , bringing a 6b fleet to kill something static wouldnt be so stupid.

I will always love LowSec

Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#34 - 2013-08-30 19:52:37 UTC
Did you guys even notice the 10x mass multiplier when you hit the button? They will be the opposite of skinny HICs. Every wh you jump through will have me (or me and 2 of my buddies) cloaked and waiting. You jump through, I (we) uncloak and push out bastion buttons and jump though. WH pops and you're stuck (locked in or locked out - my choice). HIC bubbles make them look like shuttles and bastion activation turns my kronos into a thanny. (check my math... 100 mil BS times 10 = 1 bil thanny)

If this is how it works - you are all missing the point.
Rall Mekin
End-of-Line
#35 - 2013-08-30 20:01:53 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Did you guys even notice the 10x mass multiplier when you hit the button? They will be the opposite of skinny HICs. Every wh you jump through will have me (or me and 2 of my buddies) cloaked and waiting. You jump through, I (we) uncloak and push out bastion buttons and jump though. WH pops and you're stuck (locked in or locked out - my choice). HIC bubbles make them look like shuttles and bastion activation turns my kronos into a thanny. (check my math... 100 mil BS times 10 = 1 bil thanny)

If this is how it works - you are all missing the point.


Again, this presupposes you can jump the ship through a wormhole after starting Bastion.
Rall Mekin
End-of-Line
#36 - 2013-08-30 20:10:54 UTC
I am waiting for some tools to be available, but the 30% resist bonus on top of the resists gained from a DCU/other resist mods with *NO* stacking penalty will make these a tough nut to crack for smaller wormhole gangs of 4-5 people, and it will still take a while for larger groups to DPS their way through.

We've been discussing counters/tactics all morning in -EOL chat for dealing with a potential group of these, and while neuts are awesome, a cap boosting armor ship or a dual ASB golem/vargur may be problematic unless you have a medium sized gang with you. Since we hunt anywhere in packs of two up to 20 at peak, this may make our hunts interesting....

I mean, imagine decloaking your falcon at 80km? If they had one artillery fit vargur in a t3 fleet, your falcon is dead (you can't rep alpha). Its now Scorpion or Widow or go home if one of these things are around--not to mention, they can't be jammed when deployed. As I also mentioned, the shield fits don't have to worry about neuts as much if setup right. A small group of 4-5 of these would be nasty to run into/very hard to crack for a gang of the same size.

Of course, I don't claim to be the most pro theory crafter around. (Ask Ayeson at Hard Knocks Inc.--one of his first memories is of me microwarpdriving straight into my own bomb... that I just dropped on a Vagabond--it didn't end well, lets say, but I've learned a helluvalot in the years since). However, I can see some very... very interesting and frustrating uses of these things as brawlers.

However, as has been pointed out, due to their mass size, you won't see blobs of these beyond home hole--and I'll laugh if someone tries to use these with dreads around.
Lydia vanPersie
Soltech Armada
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#37 - 2013-08-30 20:30:02 UTC
corbexx wrote:
Lydia vanPersie wrote:
If nothing else, these will be impressive for crashing holes mid-fights. Who needs to shove orcas through when you can enter as an apoc, and leave as an archon?



thats if it will allow you to jump with the bastion mode on , not managed to find anything about if that will be possible so far.

as setsune rin said i just cant see them being used for pvp much. there extra tank will mean nothing at all to dreads. the mass of them will limit numbers. For home defence maybe but then if you wantto bring them in as ranged snipers tornados are much cheaper or just use a dread instead.

There tracking and range is nice i guess but with no damage bonus i just cant see them being used at all for how much they cost and the mass they use


In the devpost, it was mentioned that entering bastion would give a weapons timer (Doesn't affect WH), and increases your mass by a factor of ten (None of them are heavy enough to exceed the 1,35 billion kg limit that prevents sieged/triaged caps landslides from jumping) Put two paladins on the K162 , bastion one before jumping, and one after jumping, and you've crashed the entrance in ~40 seconds. That's not even touching their potential as bumping ships (Bastion while your hot MWD is entering its third cycle, watch as their Mackinaw/orca/empty super gets rammed by you going 800 m/s with the mass of an Archon)

(^;

SghnDubh
BattleClinic
#38 - 2013-08-31 01:02:37 UTC
Terrorfrodo wrote:
look at some of the rebalanced ships and use your brain, instead of using years-old fittings you found on Battleclinic ^^


You're filter challenged.
Winthorp
#39 - 2013-08-31 02:50:05 UTC
Was it mentioned in the devblog how long bastion mode will be? Will it even be as long as a siege timer?

Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#40 - 2013-08-31 02:59:47 UTC
No, the guy he mentioned is. He never said that he was the one who found them. He said that the other person should catch up.

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7