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[Rubicon] Marauder rebalancing

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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#5681 - 2013-10-16 05:23:25 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:


Please show me how a Marauder is better DPS than a T1 BS, given most T1 BS have larger drone bays. Also, if you can web the mach, it can scram & web you back, meaning no MJD, and you are still slower than the Mach at that point. So, no, neither of those points are applicable.
Additionally if it has buffer tank, that's because it has Logi with it, while in Bastion mode, you can only use local reps. If it's solo, it's not going to be buffer tanking. Meaning your better reps are up against it's better DPS. Ok, in a straight up firefight in bastion mode you might 'just' outshoot a Mach assuming you are both equally fit. But the Mach will have plenty of time to disengage and escape if that is the case. While you in the Marauder do not.


90% of the time you don't launch drones when in a BS in a small gang aside from lights. When sniping you don't tend to have any due to the ranges. The firepower is exactly the same from the turrets/missiles or a little better but with better damage application at longer ranges.

Show me a mach with 75.9km webs before bonuses.

No mach I have ever seen fits an active tank outside of pve. Its too cap hungry, requires too much fitting room, provides too little buffer and is far too easy to cap out.

Show me a Marauder with 75.9km web before bonuses. In any situation where the Marauder can web the mach, the Mach can web & scram the Marauder.
Additionally all your arguments against active tank apply equally to the Marauders active tank. Though the ASB does of course not cap out. But that's a whole other story, and not one two of the marauders can make any use of anyway.
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#5682 - 2013-10-16 05:23:58 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:


100km every 70 seconds using MJD & Bastion. I say 70 because you have to wait for the MJD to activate also.
So.... you are going at.... 1429m/s.
A 100MN Machariel goes 1505m/s
A Machariel is able to dictate range BETTER than a Bastion using Marauder.
It also has superior damage (25% infact assuming BS 5).
And is able to actually adjust rather than being locked into situations. And can be remote repped.
And has 100 drone bandwidth making heavies/sentries practical as well as room for spare lights.

The Marauder.... Can be immune to Ewar, but gives up any chance of avoiding tackle by any means other than killing them. And can't use mobility to negate any kind of tackle transversal. It does have superior local reps, which give it a small niche role in tiny gang sizes, but it doesn't scale up at all and any kind of logi give just as much rep power.

The current Bastion mode is not workable. And the hull nerfs when not in Bastion mode mean the hull becomes useless. Even if they restore everything but the drone bay back to current TQ status, these ships STILL do not measure up. They do not have the meaningful DPS in or out of Bastion to be worth their price tag. Nor is their mobility any better than most other BS.


Firstly, the mach is getting nerfed, most likely in the next few weeks.

Secondly, these are not large gang ships, they are meant for smaller gang work.

DPS is in line or better than t1 BS with better damage application at longer ranges. slap some webs on that mach and suddenly its not moving all that fast, keeping range on it will be easy and given that they sport buffer tanks you can just munch away at it. It will die long before you run out of reps.


BTW, did they ever say when they were gonna start pirate BS rebalanced officially yet? (I assume not, but didn't know if I just missed it)

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#5683 - 2013-10-16 05:37:05 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

Show me a Marauder with 75.9km web before bonuses. In any situation where the Marauder can web the mach, the Mach can web & scram the Marauder.

You use a Hyena.

Nevyn Auscent wrote:

Additionally all your arguments against active tank apply equally to the Marauders active tank. Though the ASB does of course not cap out. But that's a whole other story, and not one two of the marauders can make any use of anyway.


Wrong again.

The kronos gets 37.5% more repping power than the mach with an added 100% while in bastion. The problems an active mach faces are not issues for the marauders. An active tanking mach trying to MWD towards a bastioned kronos with just one hyena is going to die or be forced off, either way it will burn through a good chunk of its cap boosters.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#5684 - 2013-10-16 05:38:46 UTC
Sobaan Tali wrote:


BTW, did they ever say when they were gonna start pirate BS rebalanced officially yet? (I assume not, but didn't know if I just missed it)


This winter is all they narrowed it down to. I would expect them to pop up sometime in the next week or so.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#5685 - 2013-10-16 05:47:10 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

Show me a Marauder with 75.9km web before bonuses. In any situation where the Marauder can web the mach, the Mach can web & scram the Marauder.

You use a Hyena.

Nevyn Auscent wrote:

Additionally all your arguments against active tank apply equally to the Marauders active tank. Though the ASB does of course not cap out. But that's a whole other story, and not one two of the marauders can make any use of anyway.


Wrong again.

The kronos gets 37.5% more repping power than the mach with an added 100% while in bastion. The problems an active mach faces are not issues for the marauders. An active tanking mach trying to MWD towards a bastioned kronos with just one hyena is going to die or be forced off, either way it will burn through a good chunk of its cap boosters.

And then the Mach uses a Hyena also.
If you want to add other ships in, it works both ways as well.
The end result is that you are putting the Marauder into it's perfect jump/snipe scenario and the Mach is pretty much equalling it.
Yet this is supposed to be where the Marauders shine the best.
Now lets put the Marauder into the Machs other roles, and see how much it struggles. The answer is a huge amount.

This means the Marauder is not good enough to see significant use as it stands and they need to significantly strengthen the base hull outside of Bastion mode to get towards the Marauder being practical to use.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#5686 - 2013-10-16 06:35:36 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

And then the Mach uses a Hyena also.
If you want to add other ships in, it works both ways as well.


And do what? Web me in my stationary ship? If anything it will help me to align when I go to use my mjd!

Nevyn Auscent wrote:

The end result is that you are putting the Marauder into it's perfect jump/snipe scenario and the Mach is pretty much equalling it.
Yet this is supposed to be where the Marauders shine the best.
Now lets put the Marauder into the Machs other roles, and see how much it struggles. The answer is a huge amount.


Thats because these ships are made for different jobs.
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

This means the Marauder is not good enough to see significant use as it stands and they need to significantly strengthen the base hull outside of Bastion mode to get towards the Marauder being practical to use.


Only if you are trying to use it for the wrong job like you are.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#5687 - 2013-10-16 06:38:15 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

And then the Mach uses a Hyena also.
If you want to add other ships in, it works both ways as well.


And do what? Web me in my stationary ship? If anything it will help me to align when I go to use my mjd!

Nevyn Auscent wrote:

The end result is that you are putting the Marauder into it's perfect jump/snipe scenario and the Mach is pretty much equalling it.
Yet this is supposed to be where the Marauders shine the best.
Now lets put the Marauder into the Machs other roles, and see how much it struggles. The answer is a huge amount.


Thats because these ships are made for different jobs.
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

This means the Marauder is not good enough to see significant use as it stands and they need to significantly strengthen the base hull outside of Bastion mode to get towards the Marauder being practical to use.


Only if you are trying to use it for the wrong job like you are.

Scram you so you can't MJD... Thats what my Hyena will do. And web you so you are even slower than your already slow pace.
Yes, they are made for different jobs. But the Machariel is almost as good at the Marauders job as the Marauder is. While the Marauder sucks at the Machariels job. Meaning overall the Marauder is significantly a worse ship.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#5688 - 2013-10-16 07:18:55 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

Scram you so you can't MJD... Thats what my Hyena will do. And web you so you are even slower than your already slow pace.
Yes, they are made for different jobs. But the Machariel is almost as good at the Marauders job as the Marauder is. While the Marauder sucks at the Machariels job. Meaning overall the Marauder is significantly a worse ship.


Web incoming hyena with ours, pop it at range with the rails, put both webs on the mach.

Again, please show us the mach that can match the tank, resists and extra range of the new kronos.
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#5689 - 2013-10-16 07:26:13 UTC  |  Edited by: gascanu
baltec1 wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

Scram you so you can't MJD... Thats what my Hyena will do. And web you so you are even slower than your already slow pace.
Yes, they are made for different jobs. But the Machariel is almost as good at the Marauders job as the Marauder is. While the Marauder sucks at the Machariels job. Meaning overall the Marauder is significantly a worse ship.


Web incoming hyena with ours, pop it at range with the rails, put both webs on the mach.

Again, please show us the mach that can match the tank, resists and extra range of the new kronos.


dude, you keep saying about using ew frigs and "dedicate frig killers" with your bastioned marauder... do you even think there is someone outhere that will go for your marauder instead of killing your support first?
you are bastioned, you can't go anywhere, ppl will just kill your support first... and then tell me again how will you point/web them so you can be able to kill them....
Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Northern Coalition.
#5690 - 2013-10-16 07:28:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Hairpins Blueprint
Hi, i think bastion module is fun, bout taking away bonus web from kronos and paladin sux :( it's kiling it as strong solo pvp boat : ( same goes for paladin. way not just get rid of capasito bonus of paladin and add this optimal : |

They are kinda good, and there is not much to change peps were flaying them for years, i was looking forward to fly them too in pvp \o/

EDIT
i gota instal sisi and see hot it rols in pvp now : >
shame that kronos have only 4 mids, so you can't realy fit mwd+jump drive. bout we can't swap any slot to : (

keep up the good work : ))

your faithfully
H.B.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#5691 - 2013-10-16 07:29:45 UTC
gascanu wrote:


dude, you keep saying about using ew frigs and "dedicate frig killers" with your bastioned marauder... do you even think there is someone outhere that will go for your marauder instead of killing your support first?
you are bastioned, you can't go anywhere, ppl will just kill your support first... and then tell me again how will you point/web them so you can be able to kill them....


Why do you think these ships should be solo monsters able to ravage everything?
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#5692 - 2013-10-16 07:33:38 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

Show me a Marauder with 75.9km web before bonuses. In any situation where the Marauder can web the mach, the Mach can web & scram the Marauder.


Are You talking about small gang engagements?

I'd guess the marauder has is own tackle guy in the gang. And suddenly the mach can't move while the marauder doesn't want to move... Straight

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Northern Coalition.
#5693 - 2013-10-16 07:34:45 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
baltec1 wrote:

Why do you think these ships should be solo monsters able to ravage everything?


they cost a loot : )

and solo pvp is Fun : >
fleets are fun too bout only when i am FC at least for me

ofc yoy can't kill everything :P
unless it get in range :D



Edit: Fixed quote. ISD Ezwal.
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#5694 - 2013-10-16 07:35:17 UTC  |  Edited by: gascanu
baltec1 wrote:
gascanu wrote:


dude, you keep saying about using ew frigs and "dedicate frig killers" with your bastioned marauder... do you even think there is someone outhere that will go for your marauder instead of killing your support first?
you are bastioned, you can't go anywhere, ppl will just kill your support first... and then tell me again how will you point/web them so you can be able to kill them....


Why do you think these ships should be solo monsters able to ravage everything?

i never sayid they should ravage s**t, all i'm saying is that bastion and this "rebalance" are actually nerfing this ship class for anything else except empire lvl 4s
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#5695 - 2013-10-16 07:46:41 UTC
gascanu wrote:

i never sayid they should ravage s**t, all i'm saying is that bastion and this "rebalance" are actually nerfing this ship class for anything else except empire lvl 4s


They were useless outside of missions (and bad in many of the missions).


Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Northern Coalition.
#5696 - 2013-10-16 07:50:08 UTC
Quote:

this "rebalance" are actually nerfing this ship class for anything else except empire lvl 4s


naahhh maruders are op for hi sec they don't need bastion but they will make use of new hi slot tho :P

Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Northern Coalition.
#5697 - 2013-10-16 07:53:28 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
gascanu wrote:

i never sayid they should ravage s**t, all i'm saying is that bastion and this "rebalance" are actually nerfing this ship class for anything else except empire lvl 4s


They were useless outside of missions (and bad in many of the missions).




nah, few peps showed they are very good at pvp. if you didn't saw those videos you never played eve : D

also they are the best ratting mashines becouse they salavage at the same time so best isk/hour with single ship : )

with vargur on angels you can make easy 70m/20min : >
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#5698 - 2013-10-16 07:56:15 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
gascanu wrote:

i never sayid they should ravage s**t, all i'm saying is that bastion and this "rebalance" are actually nerfing this ship class for anything else except empire lvl 4s


They were useless outside of missions (and bad in many of the missions).



incursions? wh space?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#5699 - 2013-10-16 08:03:38 UTC
Hairpins Blueprint wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
gascanu wrote:

i never sayid they should ravage s**t, all i'm saying is that bastion and this "rebalance" are actually nerfing this ship class for anything else except empire lvl 4s


They were useless outside of missions (and bad in many of the missions).




nah, few peps showed they are very good at pvp. if you didn't saw those videos you never played eve : D

also they are the best ratting mashines becouse they salavage at the same time so best isk/hour with single ship : )

with vargur on angels you can make easy 70m/20min : >


We used to rat with blasters in anoms and we didn't use them. Not only were they easy to jam but the Vindi was better. Thats the story of the kronos, whatever job you gave it the vindi would do it better.
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#5700 - 2013-10-16 08:07:02 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Hairpins Blueprint wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
gascanu wrote:

i never sayid they should ravage s**t, all i'm saying is that bastion and this "rebalance" are actually nerfing this ship class for anything else except empire lvl 4s


They were useless outside of missions (and bad in many of the missions).




nah, few peps showed they are very good at pvp. if you didn't saw those videos you never played eve : D

also they are the best ratting mashines becouse they salavage at the same time so best isk/hour with single ship : )

with vargur on angels you can make easy 70m/20min : >


We used to rat with blasters in anoms and we didn't use them. Not only were they easy to jam but the Vindi was better. Thats the story of the kronos, whatever job you gave it the vindi would do it better.


hint: kronos is not the only "one" marauder out there Straight