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[Rubicon] Marauder rebalancing

First post First post First post
Author
Cassius Invictus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2221 - 2013-09-04 21:54:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Cassius Invictus
hmskrecik wrote:
Cassius Invictus wrote:
Ravasta Helugo wrote:
Nam Dnilb wrote:
Ravasta Helugo wrote:
Note that EM and Thermal are remaining the exact same as current. The Kin helps slightly with Gurista. Exp helps significantly with Angels. But that's all she wrote.


Imma shootin' Guristas and Angels with mah Lazors! (said nobody, ever)

Exactly.


Yup, don't get it CCP. Thank you for acknowledging my earlier proposition but for god’s sake what is up with those resists? EM and Thermal lowest for Paladin? Explo and Kin for Vargur? That’s hilarious. Seems Kronos and Golem are fine. I know that stat line is standard for T2 Amarr and Minmatar ships, but if they are still mainly PvE ships match their strongest resists to their racial NPS rat types!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Frankly, *I* don't get it. It's like people flying Marauders had never seen other T2 ships. Whole T2 lineage has the same (ok, similar) resist characteristics and only on Marauders they are meh??? Geez...

Hint: advanced ships tank not against their mission rats, they tank against their faction enemy (Amarr tanks Minmatar and vice versa and so on).


You quote me but you clearly don't read what I say... As a pvp pilot I have ton of ships to fly: Abso, Sacri, Loki, Legion, Tornado, Oracle... I can live without a T2 PvP BS (but it would be nice). I did say that the resist setup on racial T2/T3 ships is standard for PvP ships. Marauders are still PvE ships with improved PvP capability (by adding those t2 resists). But how Paladin and (to a lesser extent) Vargur can be good for PvE if their resist don't match the rats they are fighting?

I HAVE good pvp ships - now I want a good pve ship... If it can do pvp - great - if not - plenty of others to chose from...
Josilin du Guesclin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2222 - 2013-09-04 21:55:06 UTC
hmskrecik wrote:

Frankly, *I* don't get it. It's like people flying Marauders had never seen other T2 ships. Whole T2 lineage has the same (ok, similar) resist characteristics and only on Marauders they are meh??? Geez...

No, they're often meh on other ships too. However, those other ships generally have a PvP/faction war origin in lore, so it's justified, if annoying.

Marc McIntyre Crendraven
Knights Reborn
#2223 - 2013-09-04 21:59:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Marc McIntyre Crendraven
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
Bullet Therapist wrote:
I kind of feel like marauders are being pushed into so many different directions here to try to fill roles that either other ships fill better, or don't really exist in the first place. I know CCP is trying, but it all seems so screwed up right now.

Instead of concentrating so hard on making marauders wildly different from pirate battleships and other parts of the ship line-up why don't they follow the rest of the t2 lineup, and make what changes are needed to keep them on course.

For instance, to separate them from pirate battleships look at what pirate battleships do well. All of the pirate ships have great dps, most are fairly fast (with the machariel being very fast) and three of them have fantastic ewar bonuses. Why not keep this to pirate battleships? If they need to be reworked a little then do so during the pirate rebalance, but keep things like 90% webs, web range, a neuts to pirate battleships.

Whats left over now for marauders? Well why not follow the assault ship/command ship lineup. Keep the marauder's dps about the same, but emphasize their tank and application, but do so without utterly pidgeonholeing the class. Get rid of all of all of the ewar bonuses. ALL of them. No bonus to webs, none to target painters. Just drop them. If we want them, we'll fit them, just don't make us feel like we have to in order to optimize the ship. When you think about ship bonuses realize that people are going to use long and short range weapons on the ship. Keep this in mind. A web bonus is less of a help to people using long range weapons than it is to someone who uses short range ones.

Here's a sample of something that makes sense.

GOLEM

• Role Bonus: 100% bonus to cruise missile and torpedo damage. 70% reduction in Micro Jump Drive reactivation delay. Can fit Bastion modules.

• Caldari Battleship Skill Bonus:
10% bonus to cruise missile and torpedo velocity
5% bonus to cruise missile and torpedo explosion velocity per level

• Marauders Skill Bonus:
5% bonus to the cruise missile and torpedo explosion velocity per level
4% bonus to shield resistances per level


• Slot layout: 6H, 7M, 5L; 0 turrets, 4 launchers
• Fittings: 8500 PWG, 715 CPU
• Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 8000 / 6100 / 7000
• Shield resists: 0% EM / 50% EX / 70% KIN / 80% THERM
• Armor resists: 50% EM / 10% EX / 62.5% KIN / 86.25% THERM
• Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 6325 / 1150s / 5.5 cap/s
• Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 85 m/s / .12 / 114195000 / 19s
• Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 50
• Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 95km / 105 / 10
• Sensor strength: 28 Gravimetric
• Signature radius: 450

And a bastion module that makes sense. Its pretty powerful, but again, its balanced against the fact that you COMMIT. No logi, can't move, can still be neuted, and anyone can run away from you.

BASTION MODULE

• Increases shield and armor repair amount by 25%
• Increases shield, armor and hull by 25%
• Extends all large turret falloff and optimal by 25%
• Increases all large missile max velocity by 25%
• Increases damage from large missiles and turrets by 25%
• When activated, the bastion module repairs the marauder for 25% of its maximum capacitor, armor, shield, and hull hp.
• Has a cycle time of 60 seconds.
• When in bastion mode, Marauder is immune to EW but cannot be remote assisted in any way
• When in bastion mode, Marauder speed is set to 0 m/s, mass is increased by a factor of 10, cannot warp. Also

When its activated, we're parked. We commit. When we turn this thing on its either win or die, so it better be worth it.

Its useful with the bastion module. Its useful without it. It has enough slots to make good fitting choices. It can be buffer tanked or active tanked. It has good application, which can be made better with TPs or webs, but it doesn't NEED to fit them.


Love it. Quoting for great justice.


This is indeed much better than current version, however I would make the repair amount at least 50%, maybe a tech 2 bastion module for it. also would add a bonus to MWD to the role, I like that you got rid of tractor beam bonus, but nothing replaced it. You added another low slot as well, this is good, they each need either another low or mid instead of 8 high slots.

edit: and whats with the low base velocity, it's a marauder (look it up), if anything it should be slightly faster than currently on TQ, that would be balanced because bastion locks you in place.

EDIT::: The marauders desperately need more speed, the web bonus is absurd with current suggested change to speed and mass. I have to be within 10 kilometers to use webifier bonus but the marauders are now the slowest Battlships. Makes no sens.

Eat Lead!!! Err....Antimatter...whatever!

hmskrecik
TransMine Group
#2224 - 2013-09-04 22:03:07 UTC
Cassius Invictus wrote:
But how Paladin and (to a lesser extent) Vargur can be good for PvE if their resist don't match the rats they are fighting?

Maybe because both Paladin and Vargur are natural omni tankers? Which means that no matter what rats you fight you can easily tank against them. None of filling this explosive hole on Kronos and EM on Golem.
Cade Windstalker
#2225 - 2013-09-04 22:05:29 UTC
Ravasta Helugo wrote:
Why procrastinate?


Better to save the violence for the spaceships. Only get into a blood feud over forum posts if it's really urgently nessessary to send a point (or the post in question is in Crime and Punishment or the CAOD forum)
Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction
The Pursuit of Happiness
#2226 - 2013-09-04 22:05:51 UTC
Starting to see more and more people push for things that pvpers need.

Obviously a damage bonus would be great but I'm sure thats pushing it...... The 82% web is definitely sexy though!

One thing is still puzzling me. Why are all of these sniper pve people complaing about the web like they have to put it on their ship? Do you put a scram on a falcon? No.... you keep range. Do you have to use every bonus? No... look at the gnosis!

"It is not possible either to trick or escape the mind of Zeus."

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Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
#2227 - 2013-09-04 22:08:25 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Time for another update.

We discussed the Marauder situation further and came with the following changes:


  • Shield, armor and hull 30% resistance boosts have been removed on the Bastion Module - instead, all Marauders will now get proper tech2 resists. This will allow Marauders to have better RR use outside Bastion and reduce overall tanking effectiveness inside the mode.

  • We have removed all tanking bonuses on the Marauders hulls (Armor Repairer amount on the Paladin and Kronos, Shield Boost amount on the Golem and Vargur). Instead, we are giving them 7.5% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level. This will not only help reducing their tanking effectiveness, be more in theme with the ship role itself and help anyone using them with short range weapons. We are not giving them a full 10% per level back as this would be extremely powerful in conjunction with the other bonuses / Bastion. We are going to leave the full 10% web strength amount on the Serpentis ships for now and see how things evolve with time.

  • Also, we are removing the mass penalty on the Bastion mode. Tests have shown you can't really turn when it's active anyway, and we don't want to have players abuse that to collapse wormholes.


I will change the OP to match the changes.


At first I thought the changes to marauders was kinda MEH, but this makes me want to train all 4 racial battleships to level 5 !

Eve online is :

A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online

D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification

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Cade Windstalker
#2228 - 2013-09-04 22:10:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Cade Windstalker
hmskrecik wrote:
Cassius Invictus wrote:
But how Paladin and (to a lesser extent) Vargur can be good for PvE if their resist don't match the rats they are fighting?

Maybe because both Paladin and Vargur are natural omni tankers? Which means that no matter what rats you fight you can easily tank against them. None of filling this explosive hole on Kronos and EM on Golem.


Still doesn't change the fact that the Golem and Kronos are in a better position to tank every type of mission rat than the Vargur or Paladin. With high Kin/Therm resists you can ignore half or all of the resists needed for every mission rat in the game since they all deal Kinetic or Thermal as a primary or secondary damage type and 8 out of 14 rat types deal primarily both.

The argument is not that these are worse than what's on live, it's that the 30% omni-resists from Bastion were better.
Cade Windstalker
#2229 - 2013-09-04 22:11:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Cade Windstalker
Zeus Maximo wrote:
Starting to see more and more people push for things that pvpers need.

Obviously a damage bonus would be great but I'm sure thats pushing it...... The 82% web is definitely sexy though!

One thing is still puzzling me. Why are all of these sniper pve people complaing about the web like they have to put it on their ship? Do you put a scram on a falcon? No.... you keep range. Do you have to use every bonus? No... look at the gnosis!


These are not supposed to be PvP focused ships. You have the Pirate Battleships and Black-Ops to be primarily PvP ships.

Also the Gnosis is a lousy example since it gets all of its bonuses as ship traits rather than as skill based bonuses. Also it's a collector's edition ship, not a full production ship.
Martin Astos
The Forsaken Legion
#2230 - 2013-09-04 22:12:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Martin Astos
Ok too agitated by the changes attempted here to put my thoughts properly so a quite scream then a few days to write an educated reply.


  • Why can't there be ships specifically designed at the request of the Empires for their hoard of capsuleers now keeping the pirate problem down (why cant there be a specific set of PvE ships it makes as much sense and provides as much different activity as say mining ships, Noctis, scanning frigates.
  • Please stop thinking like a headless chicken style player (running straight at the enemy and firing point black no mater what) and giving us a stasis web bonus on ships that are by their nature supposed to deal with everything at range or leave the smaller stuff for the drones (Simply: WEBS ARE POINTLESS ON THE MARAUDERS ATM REMOVAL WAS ALWAYS THE ONLY OPTION)
  • The Bastion module is a nice idea but very confused, it should either be about close range application and tank or range and damage, not half-and-half (maybe negatives to the opposite).
  • The base speed reduction removes multiple play styles forcing everyone no matter how they want to play to fit propulsion (something that again is contrary to the current ships and large chunks of the changes).
  • The MJD is only just more useful in pve as a chocolate teapot would be in the same situation, in summary the dictionary definition of a work around.
  • Only common problem for all the marauders is their stupid sensor strength meaning any mission featuring ECM has to be run with multiple ECCMs just to complete it.
  • Current changes are going to result in either a demand for compensation of SP as you are doing no different that changing the ships role completely (similar to a mining to combat change on a ship with one of the longest skill training times) or an unsubscription as atm Marauders make PvE (Level 4s) the only accessible, fun and enjoyable combat available in Eve to players like myself (both of these "threat" I know have no chance or real effect but it just proves my dedication and dislike).


I am sure there's more I want to say but at the moment am too wound up to think straight. Well done for creating a setup that is the only thing ever to make me actually truly annoyed, angry and wishing for senior staffing intervention and staffing "reallocation.”

Best of luck fixing this almighty mess you have dug us all into and I hope your retractions and fixes arrive before I finish my educated and structured full gun volley.

EDIT TO: "You don't need to put the web on" comments, Yeah you don't but then again it doesn't need the bonus, if you really wantg a web fit one, don't get CCP to mangle the ship so they can justify the ineffective web bonus.
zbaaca
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#2231 - 2013-09-04 22:12:18 UTC
Zeus Maximo wrote:
Starting to see more and more people push for things that pvpers need.

Obviously a damage bonus would be great but I'm sure thats pushing it...... The 82% web is definitely sexy though!

One thing is still puzzling me. Why are all of these sniper pve people complaing about the web like they have to put it on their ship? Do you put a scram on a falcon? No.... you keep range. Do you have to use every bonus? No... look at the gnosis!

face palm. why we should have useless bonuses that can potentially somewhere maybe some time be good when we can have something good instead right now?
btw gnosis is noob ship

Bugs are opportunities to cause unprecedented amounts of destruction. --Zorgn ♡♡♡

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2232 - 2013-09-04 22:12:25 UTC
Zeus Maximo wrote:
Starting to see more and more people push for things that pvpers need.

Obviously a damage bonus would be great but I'm sure thats pushing it...... The 82% web is definitely sexy though!

One thing is still puzzling me. Why are all of these sniper pve people complaing about the web like they have to put it on their ship? Do you put a scram on a falcon? No.... you keep range. Do you have to use every bonus? No... look at the gnosis!

The complaints stem from the fact that the new web bonus comes in place of a tank bonus that is currently well used. Since resists don't always match up the only way to gain it back in bastion, which comes with it's own issues.
MBizon Osis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2233 - 2013-09-04 22:12:51 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
MBizon Osis wrote:
"Order, counter-order, disorder" Napoleon

Looks like there are 2 camps here more or less.

The first one seems to be players who have trained and actively fly marauders. They have been asking for minor buffs for 5 years. But mostly want to keep the game play style more or less the same. It is a long train to fly these ships the way they want to.

The 2nd is people that like the new ideas of a micro jumpy/mini-dred and the new game play and tactics, fleet doctrine, solo, small gang, pvp and pve options it might bring.

These 2 camps will never reconcile with each other. I believe EVE is big enough for both.

Re-balance the marauders from the base in game now stats and for example: T2 resists (it is a T2 ship), more sensor strength equal to T1 BSs 21-22, and possibly more drone bandwidth & bay. Have the 4 high slots and noctis like bonuses
for them. This IMHO would not be OP and or change much just be a little better at what it already is good at. The expense alone will keep them in check.

Now the new micro jumping bastion ship at lest for the Amarr use the Abaddon model as the Amarr dred is the same art style have the animations of siege modes match would be cool. Use the 1st bastion iteration stats with what ever hull stats you care to try. Make a NEW ship for eve for a new style of play.

Win win for every body. Unless some of the fun goes away when some people are not having what they like taken away for the enjoyment of those who will probably never even train for the changes they are championing.



You're missing the third camp that want PvP monstrosities for small gang/solo work and are pushing for that. Those would be the ones primarily yelling for the web bonus and full T2 resists.




I am not sure what they want. I sure don't think all this is Re-balancing any more it's a whole new concept and as such deserves it's own class. Not shoehorned into the current marauder class, but something original on another ship hull IMHO.
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#2234 - 2013-09-04 22:14:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Floydy
Seen the update. Sounds interesting. Better base resists is good, cba to check the ehp but I expect it looks far more useful now when not in Bastion mode.
Removing the armour/shield bonuses on the hulls is interesting, should balance out nicely with the resist change. Webs = nice!

The web is critical here, it's going to make the Bastion significantly less vulnerable than it was, in order to get close and stop it MJD'ing you'll be in web range, likely under neuts (presuming pvp fit) and you're going to potentially take a lot of damage.

Great changes there imo :)


I still feel they need more drones. Even if it's just cargo and not bandwidth.
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#2235 - 2013-09-04 22:15:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Altrue
Nerfing the tank wasn't a good option. Given the ship's price, one would expect that a part of the ship is exceptional. Not forgetting the fact that you are also unable to receive reps.

About the mass issue, I dissagree. There are other ways to prevent wormhole abuse than by nerfing the mass. Just prevent people from jumping when using bastion module, like when cloaked at less than 5km of a wormhole... Obviously you already have the code for that.

About the stasis web... you're giving the golem two medslot bonuses while it does not even have 8 mids ! Given the range of a stasis, that's highly surprising when you compare it with the range of a torpedo or a cruise missile. I would have preferred a bonus to explosion radius, for being much more polyvalent.


I feel like you're starting to miss something with the whole bastion module... Nerfing it by removing its features isn't the right thing to do.

Edit :
Mr Floydy wrote:

The web is critical here, it's going to make the Bastion significantly less vulnerable than it was, in order to get close and stop it MJD'ing you'll be in web range, likely under neuts (presuming pvp fit) and you're going to potentially take a lot of damage.

I still feel they need more drones. Even if it's just cargo and not bandwidth.


I agree with the stasis concept, yet its use is way too small for a golem to be of any use (and for range ships in general). Why not making it a role bonus, and replace it by a bonus to cap use of local repair ? This way there is no direct tank increase, no "out of staking penalty" tank rôle, yet you make local rep easier, thus giving more options for optimizing other facets of PvE.

Also, they need more drones ! And I still think than an alternative bastion module for structure shooting would be nice.

--

I would conclude with this : In the current iteration, what makes the Golem better than, let's say, a tengu, that's worth the mountain of skills and more than twice the price ?

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Trajan Al'Thor
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2236 - 2013-09-04 22:18:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Trajan Al'Thor
Welp, no Marauders for me.

Web bonus is ish. In most PVE, range is your friend, and a web bonus is not. (Kronos being the exception) Without the resist bonus, there is little reason to go into bastion. EDIT: Read more, bastion rep bonus is good, and I like it. However, web bonus...???? Essentially, sensor strength remains crappy, and inside bastion, the battleship has no tank.

-GIVE US OUR DRONES BACK
-More dps would be nice in Bastion, although I understand not having it.
-Bake Paladin Bonus into hull, give it a 5% tracking AND WE DO NOT NEED WEB ON THE PALADIN.

Couple of thoughts:
-Scrap Bastion altogether & add frigate bridging as someone else mentioned in this thread.
-Go back to the drawing board on Bastion, I like the idea, but not its current implementation.
-These ships appear to be primarily for use at range. Web bonus = fail.
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
#2237 - 2013-09-04 22:22:04 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
hmskrecik wrote:
Cassius Invictus wrote:
But how Paladin and (to a lesser extent) Vargur can be good for PvE if their resist don't match the rats they are fighting?

Maybe because both Paladin and Vargur are natural omni tankers? Which means that no matter what rats you fight you can easily tank against them. None of filling this explosive hole on Kronos and EM on Golem.


Still doesn't change the fact that the Golem and Kronos are in a better position to tank every type of mission rat than the Vargur or Paladin. With high Kin/Therm resists you can ignore half or all of the resists needed for every mission rat in the game since they all deal Kinetic or Thermal as a primary or secondary damage type and 8 out of 14 rat types deal primarily both.

Here I don't agree. I've been flying exclusively Gallente stuff since I registered and only until quite recently when I crossed to Minnie gear. And I know all too well how this 10% explosive resist hurts. The thing is that for given skill set, fitting, etc. you can tank, say, Serpentis with one hardener while for Angels you need 2 or 3. Not a big problem in itself, it's just you have to plan your fitting accordingly (for me it meant dropping a magstab sometimes). Meanwhile with Vargur you can safely allocate fixed amount of slots, usually 1 or 2, for tanking resists and you're ready to go, everywhere. Everywhere you dare to go, that is.

I understand that for anoms grinding one of those ships and only one will be optimal but for missions where you always expect 3 or more rat types Vargur beats Kronos hands down.

Quote:

The argument is not that these are worse than what's on live, it's that the 30% omni-resists from Bastion were better.

Well, I liked this bonus too.
Gwen Ambraelle
Last Train From Cadspugh
#2238 - 2013-09-04 22:24:03 UTC
Shinzhi Xadi wrote:
So, they are going to finally give us T2 resist instead of the 30% across the board boost from bastion. Its a pity that since I use my paladin for pve in missions, and 90% of the time I'm fighting sansha/blood raiders, those T2 resist buffs are totally USELESS.

If they declare 90% webs overpowered, then why leave them on the serpentis ships??

The 2nd iteration, i can live with, but I will be honest, removing 37.5% rep bonus on the paladin is very upsetting. I know its made up for when bastion'd, but what about when moving around? I really don't like them removing that.

DId CCP ever consider giving the marauders FLAT resists like that gift battlecruiser has??

The paladin is my main pve ship, has been for long time, and these changes are really stressing me out.


+1 This too.

Pally is use against rats that shoot EM/Therm damage. T2 resists help not all in 80% of missions. Losing the rep bonus make this a serious nerf, meaning that you have to use bastion mode just to survive missions that the current Pally does with ease.

T2 resists will help enormously in WH's, however, so I guess my Pally will now do nothing else.

CCP Ytterbium, your original idea was bold and daring, something new and exciting. These revisions dilute that idea and make ships worse than there now in the process. Please return to you original vision, and tell the whingers to go take a flying leap.
Nam Dnilb
Universal Frog
#2239 - 2013-09-04 22:27:31 UTC
Bullet Therapist wrote:
I kind of feel like marauders are being pushed into so many different directions here to try to fill roles that either other ships fill better, or don't really exist in the first place. I know CCP is trying, but it all seems so screwed up right now.

...

Here's a sample of something that makes sense.

GOLEM

• Role Bonus: 100% bonus to cruise missile and torpedo damage. 70% reduction in Micro Jump Drive reactivation delay. Can fit Bastion modules.

• Caldari Battleship Skill Bonus:
10% bonus to cruise missile and torpedo velocity
5% bonus to cruise missile and torpedo explosion velocity per level

• Marauders Skill Bonus:
5% bonus to the cruise missile and torpedo explosion velocity per level
4% bonus to shield resistances per level


• Slot layout: 6H, 7M, 5L; 0 turrets, 4 launchers
• Fittings: 8500 PWG, 715 CPU
• Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 8000 / 6100 / 7000
• Shield resists: 0% EM / 50% EX / 70% KIN / 80% THERM
• Armor resists: 50% EM / 10% EX / 62.5% KIN / 86.25% THERM
• Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 6325 / 1150s / 5.5 cap/s
• Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 85 m/s / .12 / 114195000 / 19s
• Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 50
• Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 95km / 105 / 10
• Sensor strength: 28 Gravimetric
• Signature radius: 450

And a bastion module that makes sense. Its pretty powerful, but again, its balanced against the fact that you COMMIT. No logi, can't move, can still be neuted, and anyone can run away from you.

BASTION MODULE

• Increases shield and armor repair amount by 25%
• Increases shield, armor and hull by 25%
• Extends all large turret falloff and optimal by 25%
• Increases all large missile max velocity by 25%
• Increases damage from large missiles and turrets by 25%
• When activated, the bastion module repairs the marauder for 25% of its maximum capacitor, armor, shield, and hull hp.
• Has a cycle time of 60 seconds.
• When in bastion mode, Marauder is immune to EW but cannot be remote assisted in any way
• When in bastion mode, Marauder speed is set to 0 m/s, mass is increased by a factor of 10, cannot warp. Also

When its activated, we're parked. We commit. When we turn this thing on its either win or die, so it better be worth it.

Its useful with the bastion module. Its useful without it. It has enough slots to make good fitting choices. It can be buffer tanked or active tanked. It has good application, which can be made better with TPs or webs, but it doesn't NEED to fit them.


I agree, the proposed changes will create a ship class with a schizophrenic disorder. I mean what is the the "role" here? Sniping, evasive, all-in close range brawler thing? T2 resists are great for PvP, but, in some cases, somewhat useless in PvE. Admittedly, I don't think of this as a deal breaker, since tanking is not much of an issue in PvE, but still. It's just weird.

That said, I like your proposal much better and gave it a "thumbs up".
Ravasta Helugo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#2240 - 2013-09-04 22:28:36 UTC
Zeus Maximo wrote:
Starting to see more and more people push for things that pvpers need.

Obviously a damage bonus would be great but I'm sure thats pushing it...... The 82% web is definitely sexy though!

One thing is still puzzling me. Why are all of these sniper pve people complaing about the web like they have to put it on their ship? Do you put a scram on a falcon? No.... you keep range. Do you have to use every bonus? No... look at the gnosis!

We're complaining about it because we gave up 37.5% of our tank for it. That's why.